"Ideal" protein to help seniors rebuild lost muscle
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releas...81009135938.htm
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So, why the war zone? They take a protein known to be incomplete, compare it to a complete protein, and then declare that one complete protein to be the master of the universe. By this logic I'm the world wrestling champion--compared to my 4 year old nephew. I'm being a little presumptuous here, we've never actually fought. No problem with the idea that protein quality matters, or that whey is of higher quality than collagen. I think a main takeaway from the study is to remain active. Or at least avoid inactivity. Probably nothing wrong with supplementing collagen, for most people. It shouldn't be a major contributor to your protein requirement. For people targeting a "moderate" protein intake, mostly sticking to more complete proteins probably makes sense. Since this is the war zone, I'll throw in something pithy about Ray Peat's idea that we should eat more collagen and less complete proteins. Ray Peat is a buffoon. :lol: |
I saw this article yesterday and had the same response you did, Teaser. Comparing whey to collagen, that makes no sense. Oh well, I suppose it might help boost sales of whey protein. This elderly body will stick with real meat.
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WTH??? FIrst part of the sentence mentions "protein" and "inactivity" then second section specifies "whey supplements" and "activites"---two changes. I was expecting to see the miraculous when protein increasing muscle in the inactive participants. Not this nonsense. |
Sounds like a marketing pitch sponsored by the Dairy Council. Would have been a more level playing field if they compared Whey to meat protein. Some supplements that are isolates of naturally occurring proteins don't always provide what is needed, as isolation removes other important protein components.
And that's why there's this issue: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17093159 MSPI (Whey) or soluble milk protein is digested very rapidly and causes other issues: Quote:
Love the Ray Peat comment. |
“Since this is the war zone, I'll throw in something pithy about Ray Peat's idea that we should eat more collagen and less complete proteins. Ray Peat is a buffoon. “
Agree! 😁 |
This subject is timely for me personally, as I am unable to eat enough protein. Just can't eat enough. Period. So this affects my protein intake.
For supplementation, I have both whey (MetRX PLus) and collagen (Premium Collagen Peptide Powder From Grass Fed Beef.) I can utilize more of the collagen because it has no bulk. Even added to coffee, there's no "thickening" feature so there's room in my stomach. Harder for me to consume the MetRX. |
Have you ever tried egg white protein powder? You may find it less bulky than whey.
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I've not tried the egg white protein powder. Something in eggs distresses my digestive tract, but it's probably the yolks. Don't know. When I use the whey protein powder, it's part of meal substitution.
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Whey used to be waste, now it's a supplement cuz protein. Bran is the same, was waste, now gud for ya cuz fiber.
As with any other supplement, if there's an effect, there must be a deficiency to begin with. Therefore, check the overall diet cuz deficient. Consider going low-carb. We start with a crap diet of crap, go low-carb, everything gud for reels. That crap diet of crap mustn't be food. Add whey, feelz gud, diet must be crap. Start with crap diet of crap, add collagen crap, still crap. So, ya, Teaser, that's no gud logic. Warzooooned!!! (use Torgue's voice for that, it's a Borderlands reference) Incidentally, dietary protein on its own causes muscle and other tissue growth independently of activity. It could be the insulin through inhibition of proteolysis and stimulation of proteosynthesis, but it could be just the influx of excess protein that enters the on-going protein synthesis, a tipping point of sorts. The idea here is that muscle growth occurs continuously, myostatin inhibits muscle growth, follistatin inhibits myostatin, and then throughout there's protein supply which modulates the potency of those mechanisms especially on the low side but also likely on the high side. Or it could be some signaling by some amino acids or other stuff found in meat for example. |
I tracked this back to the source. Here is the actual clinical trial:
https://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/...03285737&rank=1 Please note: Sponsor:McMaster University Collaborator:National Dairy Council Information provided by (Responsible Party):McMaster University For those interested in How We Age. (the science) https://www.the-scientist.com/features/how-we-age-35872 This article also addresses the idea of quantity or quality of life. As one of the "elderly" I can speak to the subject. Because of my ongoing good health, I can expect to live at least another 20 years. But do I want to? The part of me which thinks is curious. I'd like to watch the unfolding of what the future holds in technical advances. Maybe one of those clinical studies will give the answer to the breaking down of DNA sequences which cause the errors which bring about aging. It's too late for me not to age LOL, but I'm more interested in the quality of my life. It's up to me, and I believe that ketogenesis is the best way to stave off disease and exercise is the best way to my personal enjoyment of life. |
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Very well described, as longevity without quality of life is pointless. That's my current challenge. How do we live a productive, active and engaged life up to the very end? I've seen too many people including family members go through things that they never anticipated or planned for, but the physicians involved suggested all sorts of treatments to keep them alive. Simply staying alive for a long time misses the point. Living a long high-quality existence where one is vital, engaged, and active up to the end is the goal. Ideally, the graph of life quality should remain steady in very slow, controlled decline for most of the later duration of lifespan and then drop like a cliff at the very end. Strict ketogenesis and exercise are my ways of supporting this as well. |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pl-ZhmD7K5Q
Shawn Baker and Zach Bitter interview Keith Barr, he's a muscle physiologist. A lot here on retaining or gaining lean muscle and bone mass as we get older. A lot of emphasis on protein timing, his prescription is 20 grams minimum per meal, meals three or four hours apart. Goes into how the catabolic period between meals primes the system to take advantage of the next protein load. Also big on jumping as high as you can every day. Muscles require a heavy workload, bones and cartilage are more about impact, you don't really have to work up a sweat to improve bone mass. |
Here's an informative video by Dr. Ted Naiman titled Protein vs Energy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsROBLqr-SE |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQ6xtn1aiP0
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Maybe this one's a bit over the top. :lol: But a better claim to being the 'ideal' protein by far. And eggs makes me thing of this; Quote:
The authors don't seem overly fond of statins. They suggest that if they increase lean muscle mass with weight training, it might be because the statins make it easier to damage the muscles and get a training effect... sort of a hormetic thing. But when they break down diet versus statin intake, you can see that while there's an increase in lean mass at higher dietary cholesterol with or without statins, there's a greater increase with higher dietary cholesterol and statin intake. Also--sometimes a stronger effect of weight training might be seen if something is causing strength and/or lean mass in the previously sedentary individuals to be less than it could be. So there's the question of just how sarcopenic people were going in, given differences in normal uncompromised muscle mass from person to person, maybe hard to judge. https://academic.oup.com/biomedgero.../10/1164/568431 |
Teaser -- this recommendation is the direct opposite to the current fad of intermittent fasting
"A lot of emphasis on protein timing, his prescription is 20 grams minimum per meal, meals three or four hours apart. Goes into how the catabolic period between meals primes the system to take advantage of the next protein load." |
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