Dr. Jason Fung. The Obesity Code
 

This thread is the continuation of another started July 2014 discussing new information about insulin resistance and the fasting protocols of Dr. Jason Fung of Intensive Dietary Management. That thread has 21 months of individual experimentation and examining his blog posts and videos that helped many find a healthy fasting and eating plan suited to their lifestyle.

But now Dr. Fung has published his first book, The Obesity Code: Unlocking the Secrets of Weight Loss. It is a brilliant distillation of his thoughts on insulin resistance, how that has contributed to the obesity epidemic and what you can do to overcome your insulin resistance, reverse diabetes, and lose weight. It is very well written, simple to understand, with many supporting studies. Much easier and quicker than reading back through every post on his website, or the previous 176 page thread.

** Find previous thread here: http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthre...63&page=1&pp=15


For anyone already fasting, please add your thoughts about the book and the plan to this thread from now on, maybe how you have incorporated it in your life. For anyone new, below is my overview of some basics. Others please add their favorite Fung video, blog post or insight here.


Dr. Jason Fung is a Toronto-based kidney specialist. His website is the Intensive Dietary Management program, his plan primarily to “cure diabetes naturally”. http://intensivedietarymanagement.com/blog/

The website has hours of two lecture series about Obesity and Diabetes that have information which was eye-opening, especially to the idea of fasting. Recently, he has been working with Dr. Andreas Eenfeldt, of DietDoctor, who has added an 8 part Fasting video course, his top lectures, and a very extensive FAQ section on the membership site (free first month). His presentations there are more polished, and in a top-quality production. http://www.dietdoctor.com/member/presentations/fung-2
The Two Big Lies about T2 Diabetes is one of my favorite talks on both DietDoctor and his website.

“What to Eat”: April 2014, he published his “Dietary Index” of the foods to eat. https://intensivedietarymanagement....-index-idm-2-2/ Since then, and in the book, he seems somewhat more LCHF, but his food plan in broad brush is:

“There are Five basic steps in weight loss:
1. Reduce your consumption of added sugars.
2. Reduce your consumption of refined grains.
3. Moderate your protein intake.
4. Increase your consumption of natural fats.
5. Increase your consumption of fiber and vinegar.”

“When to Eat”: His new contribution to the Low Carb conversation is the timing of meals for weight loss, i.e. fasting. He has sample meal plans for both the 24 and 36 hour fasting protocols in his book, followed by FAQs. There is also a history of fasting and practical fasting advice; the crux of the matter or his protocol is saved for the final 35 pages. Highly recommend anyone buy the book for this part, but the fasting guidelines were previously on his website, and are saved here: https://web.archive.org/web/2014090...ient-resources/


His book is at Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Obesity-Code-...t/dp/1771641258

So the new thread is just for book discussions?

No,not onlythe book. It's should also continue anything about fasting that was included in the the old thread, which is way over post limit. A place to discuss anything Fungi. :) your experiences fasting, what timing works for you, whatever.

Since my health dip early in February, and the subsequent medications, which included steroids, I haven't been doing my usual skipping of dinner.

But I did catch a podcast with Dr. Fung that was most interesting; I liked hearing him talk about his theories and what has happened in his practice with these severely ill patients.

Janet,
Thank you for starting this thread and for your excellent synopsis to start the thread. I have the book, but other than a quick glance through to see if I could pin him down on amounts of protein, I haven't been reading it due to lots of other obligations. I'm on vacation next week, so I plan on reading it then.

Janet, thanks for creating the new board. :) I've been looking forward to this discussion. I just finished the book and now I'm going to read it over again and underline some things I want to remember.

Interestingly, my mother was reading it one day and got to the part about mothers, insulin and offspring and volunteered that she was thin while pregnant with my sister, slightly fatter with my brother and quite fatter 5 years later with me. Our adult sizes match accordingly.

She also volunteered that she thought it was repetitive in the first part. I said it's because he's trying to make a case that's very much against the grain of "conventional wisdom". It's really astonishing how firmly implanted and pervasive the whole calories in, calories out, fat phobia and even frequency in eating ideas are, while absolutely not scientifically based. Will he be an unheard voice in the wilderness or will people take notice?

As Debbie said on the older board, I too, appreciated Dr. Fung's very clear discussion on proximate and ultimate reasons for obesity. In general, I like his big picture view of the problem as I don't find myself thinking, "but, whattaya 'bout ..." as I read, as everything fits. To my view anyway and I'd be interested in hearing any dissent.

I've been wondering about how the book will be received. What do you all think?

I suspect people looking for a conventional diet book will be disappointed in this one since he doesn't expound much on "what to eat". I hope they come away with the same appreciation I have for the importance of "when to eat", however, as I think that is the big idea that he explains very well in terms of insulin. As a low carber, based on the advice of "eat when you're hungry", I ate too often and while I always lost weight, my insulin resistance has probably been increasing for decades making it harder to lose and easier to regain every time.

I started some fasting last year when Dr. Fung's blog was first being discussed and have continued off and on all year, sometimes only 1 or 2 days a month but frequently more. I've been on and off the reservation all year too, but interestingly and unusually for me, I ended the year with a net loss of 15 lbs. Most recently my foray into CarbLand didn't result in as much weight gain as I expected (based on past experience) and I wonder if I can attribute that to some intense fasting in December.

I still have stress symptoms when I fast, which is why I haven't attempted anything more than 24 hrs lately, and I have more thoughts on that if anyone, especially newbies, might be interested. I only mention it because most everyone else generally paints a completely rosy picture.

Do you wish to share those symptoms and thoughts here? I'm interested and listening!

Thanks so much for this new thread Janet. I don't know how you do all you do. You must live on this site. ;)

Life has been busy enough lately that I'm still reading the book. Yes there is some repetition, but good repetition, with slightly different slants.

My ex has a doctorate in Technical Education, and used to be a course writer and developer for self-study online computer courses. He said the basic mantra followed in those courses could be distilled into three steps:
1) First tell them what you are going to tell them.
2) Then tell them.
3) Then tell them what you told them.

Lots of repetition made a lot of difference in retention. Dr. Fung has a lot of stuff to tell that flies against the face of "conventional wisdom" so repeating a few times in slightly different ways makes good sense as a way to drive his points home.

I think repetition is a good thing when it comes to something that appears to be self-evident like calories in calories out. I have had to go over and over that in my mind and read Taubes "Why We Get Fat" a few times and I still have to go over it in my head to make sure I have it straight. I haven't read Fung's book yet but I ordered it and it should arrive any day.

Jean

For those who aren't reading the book:
 

For those who aren't reading the book: https://intensivedietarymanagement....ion-fasting-24/

Oooh, new! thanks Glenda!

Thank you for posting this Janet. I passed on to my godchild who has had brain surgery for seizures (she had a lesion on the brain). I noticed the article mentions seizures. She already eats super healthy but the intermittent fasting as a means to control seizures ... wow! Dr. Fung is amazing. He was interviewed on my local CBC radio channel this morning :)

Glenda posted the link above. Good blog entry on Fasting and Brain Function. Very significant benefits described. Here's another link of an excellent TED talk by Mark Mattson some may have already viewed that complements the IDM blog post:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UkZAwKoCP8

Thanks for posting the new thread, Janet.

Over the past year, I've found my self naturally trending toward IF, because I no longer eat three meals a day and snacks.

It's breakfast and dinner, with a possible snack somewhere in the middle. And, since breakfast and dinner are 10 to 12 hours apart, there is a good 12 hours of fasting, daily.

With the snacking that used to happen, I was lucky to get 8 hours of a fast in a day.

I've not done formal fasting. But my BGs are extremely normal, when they are tested, and I don't currently feel the need.

Thanks Glenda too !!

By super healthy, meaning has she given up grains? Recommend Grain Brain book by Dr. Perlmutter. http://www.drperlmutter.com/tag/seizure/ There are a lot of tumor and epilepsy studies/stories in his archives, so not sure how it would apply to her situation, but think she would be interested in that book too.

Good to see this new thread started.
I've not been on-line much this week, but have been continuing with moderate IF and low carb.

I've had several BG readings in the mid to high 80's several afternoons and this morning my fasting BG was 112. That is the lowest since halving the amount of insulin.

Still struggling with weight loss -- only 2 lbs. in two weeks. But maybe that will improve as well.

I might not post a lot, but I do read.

A pound a week is great weight loss when you are so close to goal! And mid-80s? fantastic! forgot, are you working with a doctor on your insulin dose?

This is great news Abilene!

The weight loss will come, the fact that you're losing anything on insulin is impressive. Once you get off of insulin, you should find weight loss a bit easier. Also remember you're close to goal, and 1lb a week is really good progress.

I've avoided all of Jason Fung's work because I read that IF isn't so good for sugar addicts, because it can make a binge more likely.

However, I'm about 10 weeks into lchf and not having cravings even when buying or dishing up carbs for my husband.

Ordered myself a copy from Amazon, but won't be here for a couple of weeks yet - excited!

Thanks -- I know a pound a week is good, but like everyone else, I want the fat gone NOW!

I'm winging this experiment on my own. Not sure I want to approach this with my doc. Although knowing him, he'd just shrug and tell me not to let my A1c go below 6 <sigh>.

You get enough 80s and you will be below 6 in no time :) both Dr Fung and Dr Davis have given some general guidelines for adjusting dose, suggesting BG a little high rather than risk too low. It's in the archived sheets and on the blog, but not in the book that I remember.

Ronnie, are you eating Now only three meals a day? No snacks is a simple way to start, maybe delaying breakfast if not hungry for it. Just reducing "eating events" and insulin spikes in a day may help binge eating. No need to let yourself get overly hungry.

https://katch.me/livinlowcarbman/v/...8a-3a2f0a8cff58


A few weeks ago, we were discussing Jimmy Moore's month long fast that he did in January. He got a Dexa scan, before and after, and of 20 pounds lost, the Dexa showed ten pounds lost as fat, ten as lean.

A month later, Jimmy's had another Dexa, he goes into some detail about that in the video above. Long story short--he's regained the ten pounds of lean mass he'd lost--but also the ten pounds of fat.

One factor here is that he didn't work out during the fast, and didn't work out during the one month refeed. It's pretty well established that if you lose lean mass during weight loss, and then do a refeed, exercise will increase the ratio of lean to fat mass that's regained--so I'm not really sure what's learned here. In the Minnesota starvation experiment, with refeeding, fat mass reached pre-starvation levels before lean mass did--and the increase in appetite with refeeding continued until lean mass was recovered, leading to the hypothesis that the fat overshoot that occurred in that study was due to the appetite being driven to restore the lean mass. Which begs the question of whether doing something to increase the rate at which lean mass recovered, like a bit more protein, and weight training, would have averted the fat overshoot.

Yes JEY100, 3 meals a day, I skip the odd breakfast, or have a fatty coffee for breakfast some days. So I can imagine doing 16 hours fast without too much difficulty. Looking forward to better understanding the hypothesis behind it.

16:8 or 18:6 or 20:4...all accepted versions of "fasting" with their own champions. :thup:

The video lecture suggested in the very first post last thread is a good introduction to the reasons he suggested fasting as a solution to insulin resistance. It now has all the lecture notes and slides with it; the last half is about fasting lays out his hypothesis why it is better than LCHF alone. https://intensivedietarymanagement....g-solution.pptx

Then the whole more recent series on fasting, but that would be a major commitment... Part 1 started back in April 2015! :D https://intensivedietarymanagement....history-part-i/

Ronnie, at this point, I do 12:12. When our lifestyle slows down, because Husband can retire, I can easily see that going to 16:8.

But, if I want to have dinner with him, it's around 8 pm, and breakfast is around 8:30.

No lunch needed, on most days, and a small snack around 5. So, in actuality it's 12:9:3:12.

As I don't have BG issues, I'm good with that.

Just finished The Obesity Code last night. I found the book very easy to read, and the advantage over the IDM blog is that everything was presented in a cohesive flow building upon information in a logical order.

When I pre-ordered the book a few months ago, I wondered whether it made sense, as I was prepared to read what has been posted on the IDM blog over the past couple years. As mentioned by others, the book focuses on obesity (go figure with that title!?!, yeah an obvious one here!), and the dynamics regarding the obesity epidemic that has become a global health issue over the past 40+ years. With that focus, the book is organized in six parts: 1) The Epidemic, 2) The Calorie Deception, 3) A New Model of Obesity, 4) The Social Phenomenon of Obesity, 5) What's Wrong with Our Diet?, and 6) The Solution. It also provides three Appendices providing specifics for A) Sample Meal Plans (with Fasting Protocols, B) Fasting: A Practical Guide, C) Meditation and Sleep Hygiene to Reduce Cortisol.

The information is a very thorough treatment of all things related to obesity initially touching on the absence over recent years of nutritional knowledge about how to control obesity and building to the associated health symptoms of metabolic syndrome as a part of the obesity issue. Hormonal control is identified as the primary issue with the need to manage Insulin at the top of the list and Cortisol following.

I'll touch on a couple points that stood out to me: 1) It's insulin, insulin, insulin as obesity is a hormonal problem not a caloric problem. This is not a surprise to the many forum members here, as we discuss this frequently. What's different is the thorough presentation and the solutions provided to manage insulin. 2) The concept that Insulin Resistance changes the body weight set point and the process to change it back to normal.

The section on protein and insulin response was very informative with the continued recommendation to moderate protein consumption. The observation that fasting does not result in lean body mass loss is controversial with many varying views, but Fung states that fasting (purposeful elimination of food during a set time period) compared to starvation (involuntary calorie reduction with no known end) has little impact on lean mass particularly after a few days of fasting when HGH levels increase. I realize this has been an active discussion here and elsewhere.

The other observation is the recommendation to eliminate artificial sweeteners, as they are now known to cause insulin spikes and have the ability to cause insulin release even before the food reaches the stomach. Included are several "naturally occurring" sweeteners including stevia, which while having minimal effect on blood sugars is identified along with aspartame as resulting in raised insulin levels "higher even than table sugar." This got my attention.

In summary, I'm adding this book to my library of books that are excellent guides to managing health through healthy eating. The section on timing of meals and fasting is unique in that while I currently have several books that I'll continue to reference, the combination of meal timing and nutritional recommendations is new. If someone asks for a good book on a healthy nutritional approach with the context of history, biology, and sound solutions, I would recommend The Obesity Code. Dr. Fung has a winner here.

Rob.
What a great review! I will now purchase the book.

thanks Rob! I still have only skimmed the TOC. I'll have some extra time this week to read it. I'm going to be doing some fasting this week and have entered the start point in my journal. Interestingly highish BG.

Great review Rob! I agree with all of it...sure he would appreciate you posting that on Amazon as a five star review. I keep meaning to do that myself and haven't gotten around to it.