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-   -   Thinking of going vegan? Read this first. (http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=483399)

WereBear Sun, Jan-05-20 05:51

Thinking of going vegan? Read this first.
 
This article is about B-12, and features my new best friend: the concept of bio-availability.

Quote:
Absorption — bioavailability — of B12 can vary, depending on the source. About 50% of B12 from meat and fish is absorbed into the bloodstream. However, only around 9% of B12 in eggs is bioavailable. Milk contains surprisingly little B12.


We often discuss the -- well -- fanaticism of vegans. Their drive to eliminate the Cycle of Life via a twisted form of ethics is baffling. Especially to low carbers who have discovered how much better their health becomes while eating a lot of animal foods.

I believe this is a belief system, not anything based in science, no matter what propaganda they churn out. In addition, I believe a lot of them are suffering from a lack of B vitamins in general, and B-12 in particular.

Quote:
Thinking of going vegan? Read this first.

itamin B12 is the largest and most complex of all vitamins, found only in animal-based foods. Plants do not make, use, or contain this vitamin. Even so, many people make the conscious decision to avoid all foods containing natural B12. It is vital that they supplement their diets, and monitor their B12 status, because deficiency can have devastating consequences.


I've seen a lot of plant-based pushback against the statistic which states 84% of vegans go back to eating meat, but then, both vegans and vegetarians have mental gymnastics associated with their dietary habits. In a favorite article, We Must Reclaim Human Health, Sustainability, Environmental Justice, And Morality From The Birdseed Brigade, J Stanton shares the results of a paper:

Quote:
I’ll save time and give you the punchline right away: Of self-defined vegetarians, nearly 2/3 (214/334, or 64%) ate a significant quantity of meat on at least one of the two days for which their dietary intake was surveyed!


Which fits right in with my own dietary discussion, both in person and online, where "healthy eaters" like to tell me, "I'm practically vegetarian!" Well, in actual practice, that means they do a lot of grains and beans and dry chicken breasts. They avoid slabs of the deadly red meat. Just as they have been told. The kind of people who never say "fat" as a foodstuff, they say "artery-clogging fat."

Quote:
The four stages of vitamin B12 deficiency

Deficiency occurs in four stages. In stages 1 and 2, stores become depleted. In stage 3, blood levels of an amino acid called homocysteine start to rise.

It is only at stage four that clinical signs start to manifest.

...

Shortage of this vitamin can take several years to become apparent. That is because the adult body stores around 2–5mg of B12, half of which is in the liver. That is enough B12 to last 3–5 years, although deficiency can arise within just a year if stores are low to start with.


Fatigue, memory problems, and the depression/anxiety cycle can come from low B-12. I find this ironic because this is often when people decide "I gotta get healthy" and go vegan. As discussed in another post, where I read a memoir of a woman who did just that, and had to go for radical, experimental treatment, for a severe worsening of her chronic depression.

Such a link!

Quote:
Severe deficiency causes irreversible damage to the brain and nervous system and can lead to dementia. Low levels of B12 are also associated with the development of Parkinson’s disease.

...

Vitamin B12 deficiency was once thought to be rare in vegetarians, but is now known to be common among people on all the different vegetarian variations. Researchers have observed stage 3 vitamin B12 deficiency in over 60% of vegetarians.


Of course they can supplement! Of course they should! But B-12 can ONLY come from animal sources.

So if they want to live: they aren't really vegans at all.

Ms Arielle Sun, Jan-05-20 10:51

Just a small amount of beef to get daily supply of B12.


Its rather amazing how many people are starving .....lacking full, healthful levels of important nutrients.

WereBear Sun, Jan-05-20 11:32

Comparing nutrient levels of beef and bread is shocking. Yet I’ve never seen an article discussing that except from low carb sources.

Meme#1 Sun, Jan-05-20 12:58

I just read the other day that anyone taking Metformin should supplement because it depletes the body of B-12.

Ms Arielle Sun, Jan-05-20 15:04

Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBear
Comparing nutrient levels of beef and bread is shocking. Yet I’ve never seen an article discussing that except from low carb sources.

Dr . ______ lists out the nutritive value of an extensive list of foods , and all bread and pasta gets a NEGATIVE number ! It steals away and uses up nutrients.

Shocker!

WereBear Sun, Jan-05-20 15:52

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meme#1
I just read the other day that anyone taking Metformin should supplement because it depletes the body of B-12.


It seems inevitable to conclude some people are being made more cranky and slow on the uptake!?!”

Dodger Sun, Jan-05-20 20:08

Potential vegans should have to read this article.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...the-vegan-brain

WereBear Mon, Jan-06-20 02:07

These meat haters are a very small percentage of the population. NO WAY they are having this much influence without corporate money pushing it.

Quote:
Five percent of U.S. citizens are vegetarians and 3 percent are vegans

8 Surprising Psychological Facts About Vegetarians

Vegetarians have lower self-esteem, lower psychological adjustment, less meaning in life, and more negative moods than people who eat meat (Nezlek et al., 2018).
Vegetarian men have higher depression scores than men who eat meat (Hibbeln et al. 2018).
Vegetarians have a higher chance to suffer from depression, anxiety and somatoform disorders than people who eat meat (Michalak et al., 2012). However, the results of this study showed that many people started being vegetarian after they got a diagnosis for a mental disorder. Thus, there does not seem to be a causal relationship between being vegetarian and mental health issues. Instead, some people tend to become vegetarian after the developed mental health issues – maybe because they want to live healthier.




My italics, because there IS science showing otherwise. But just like ALL cult thinking, facts mean nothing when there is BELIEF.

There is nothing sane nor ethical about it; especially when you consider how heavily processed these foods are. And how many digestive issues they have eating them!

Meme#1 Mon, Jan-06-20 11:23

Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBear
It seems inevitable to conclude some people are being made more cranky and slow on the uptake!?!”


I also forgot to write that when you consider a vegan taking Metformin, it must be super bad because they are already deficient in b-12 from their diet and then add to that the med. which depletes it further, so it's probably a severe deficiency for that group of people.

JEY100 Tue, Jan-07-20 04:35

ZoeHarcombe's analysis of Veganuary.

Is Veganuary Healthy?

https://www.zoeharcombe.com/2020/01...anuary-healthy/

Bob-a-rama Tue, Jan-07-20 07:58

Like many of us, I don't need convincing. I am an omnivore becaus:
  1. My body has digestive enzymes for plants and meat
  2. My alimentary canal is one of an omnivore. (a) Cows and other ruminants have several stomachs to ferment the cellulose (b) horses and their kin have extremely long large intestines to give the bacteria extra time to break the cellulose down and yet their food is still only partially digested so other animals feed on it (c) Rabbits, deer and others eat their feces a second time to run them through their system again (I'm not going to do that)
  3. There are 7 important nutrients you can't get from plants

There have been only a few studies that have extended the lives of lab animals (including primates).

One is the introduction of Acetyl L-Carnitine and Alpha Lipoic acid into the diets (the vegan Alpha Linoleic does not do it). Another is extreme caloric restriction and a third is a supplement called NAD+

For me good reasons to eat meat.

Bob

GRB5111 Tue, Jan-07-20 13:52

Yep, Zoe nails it in significant detail.

Meme#1 Tue, Jan-07-20 14:12

Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBear
These meat haters are a very small percentage of the population. NO WAY they are having this much influence without corporate money pushing it.

My italics, because there IS science showing otherwise. But just like ALL cult thinking, facts mean nothing when there is BELIEF.

There is nothing sane nor ethical about it; especially when you consider how heavily processed these foods are. And how many digestive issues they have eating them!


It's also about their FEELINGS :lol:
They just don't want us eating ribeyes because it would hurt their feelings...

Bob-a-rama Wed, Jan-08-20 08:55

Some (definitely not all but too many) vegans are like religious fanatics. They want everybody to live by their rules with complete disregard to others with opposing viewpoints.

If a vegan tells me they don't eat anything that abuses animals, I will tell them bees are abused to fertilize your veggies by being trucked from farm to farm to fertilize the monoculture of a factory farming complex. :D

(not really, I just ignore them)

Bob

BawdyWench Wed, Jan-08-20 10:19

I also love those vegans who won't eat meat, but will gladly tote around a leather handbag or satchel ... the list goes on and on.

Quote:
Fats, fatty acids and protein meals from cows are used in a wide variety of everyday household items, including in candles, cosmetic, crayons, perfume, mouthwash, toothpaste, shaving cream, soap and deodorants. Stearic acid derived from cow fat is the most common culprit in these items

https://www.onegreenplanet.org/anim...dden-cow-parts/

Another: https://www.businessinsider.com/sur...w-parts-2017-10


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