How fats shifted my stall
 

I lose weight steadily when dieting so a two week stall is significant for me. Also, it coincided exactly with a change in diet.

I was eating moderate carbs, reduced calorie (though not actually counting) and losing about 2lbs a week for a few months.
Then I decided to get back on the Atkins plan properly and continued losing on low carbs. I actually slowed to .5lbs loss a week. Still fine of course, but I thought it odd.

Influenced by Protein Power and their ilk, I decided on doing a few days to a week of zero carbs. After the first day I put on weight. 2nd day again, 3rd day again. I think I gained about 3lbs!

I went back to low carb and have simply stalled.

I was totally confused and thinking on it came up with the idea that my body was behaving as if it was on high carbs. Not as far as cravings (appetite was still well suppressed) but with the instant weight gain. But as I had been on a meat diet (and around 1000 cals), how could that be?

It felt like my body was using protein as a sugar (I think that many LCers don't realise that a zero carb food, protein, turns into sugar in the body). I also thought how the only macronutrient that cannot be used as a sugar is fat.

Two days ago I shifted by percentages from (approx) 60-70% protein 20-30% fats 10% carbs, to (approx) 70% fat 20% protein 10% carbs.

First day I lost 1lb - Holy lipids!

Day 2: 1lb loss. - yikes
Day 3: .2lb loss - now I'm on my usual weight loss track!

My body was behaving as if it was carb-filled! You know, that super quick weight loss when you go from a carby diet to a low-carb one. Water weight.

Googling this, I found plenty of talk about it of course, including a famous diet -The Rosedale Diet. I'm not following any specific diet plan, just fiddled with my macronutrients. (google leptins if you want to geek out). Of course for every claim there is always a counter-claim - I do what works.

This might be the answer to those on long stalls or with only 10lbs to lose or if on extreme low carb for some time.
For some people, I know that carb-cycling works very well. For me it just goes up and down exactly. Too sensitive to carbs? I know I can feel perfectly happy on zero carbs whereas others need at least 40g a day to feel good.

So for someone like me, it seems like my body was determined to feed off sugars and high protein consumption made my body treat it as such. With fats, it has no choice. We all want to be in fat-burning mode but for some of us lots of protein could be stopping us from getting there fully.

I've been thinking Low Carb, Low Carb for a few years, but now my mantra might be - High Fat, Low Carb. I'll get back to you in a few weeks with progress.

Anyway, just wanted to share this in case it helps someone else. I'm sure it's been spoken about before. But helpful for a newbie.

Yes, keep us posted Nica.

Hi Lizzy.

I lost another pound this morning and that included 2 tablespoons of peanut butter around 5pm! I had approx 300 extra calories in total.

3.2lbs in 4 days. I need to slow down.

So this is giving me the chance to add more calories without feeling stuffed (it's wonderful that protein helps us feel full but I end up feeling stuffed when eating a lot of it).
The other benefit is eating more of the yummy things, like PB :)

This morning I've gone for a high fat fruit smoothie and will accept extra carbs for the day.

I've lost another 2.2lbs. I maintained for a couple of days when I upped my calories quite a bit.

I'm now eating about 300 calories more from when I was initially stalled I'm but losing.

Psychologically it's also great because I'm able to include yummy fats, like PB,plenty of butter on my lc bread, etc.

Hi - great post! Can I ask what foods you used to up your fat %?

I think that a 60-70% or more fat ratio is optimal for fat loss, but a lot of low-carbers (myself included) find it hard to keep up that kind of %, especially with the lack of appetite it brings about.

Your post reminded me I really need to take a week to track what I'm eating again, I'm sure I've lowered my fat% intake without even realising it, just because I've not been hungry! But I have been stalled a really long time, I need to be more proactive about breaking through it.

Would love a sample menu or two, I just dan't imagine what you would eat to be lowcarb yet keep the fat that high.

I figured out something similar starting about 2 weeks ago. I wasn't going anywhere. My ketosis was usually "nothing" or very light pink. I kept at the same weight I had started at. I began to poke around this forum and continue to read Taubes. Suddenly the word "fat" was all around. I remembered Atkins saying you had to be totally unafraid of fat, and we were trained to think that fat was the bad guy. I suddenly got the light bulb and decided to go "high fat."

I stopped eating even the 1 cup of greens, and raised my level of fat as high as I could.

The result is that I am now losing about 1 pound per day.

How to raise the level of fat in your diet? Sounds gross, but you have to actually eat fat, or oils.

There are also some foods. Tahini (ground sesame seeds) can be put in eggs. It is 5 grams of carbs, 3 of fiber (2 net carbs) 260 calories per 2 tsp serving, and of that 260, 200 are fat.

Mayo-- has a little sugar, so add 1 carb. 100% fat.

So when I have chicken, for instance, I add a lot of mayo and make a "chicken salad" type dish. Add butter, mayo, a mixture of oils.

I also eat mayo directly.

My meals have been pretty simple for the past 10 days.
Fatty ground beef patties and mayo. Chicken thighs and mayo. Eggs and mayo.

Hey, I never claimed to be a good cook! I want to save my life, not eat pretty food.

My menu sounds similar to Za'atar's at the moment.

The majority of my fats are coming from (in this order) olive oil, butter, nuts, full fat cream cheese, mayo, eggs, cream. Occasionally, full fat yoghurt.

A tablespoon of olive oil is something like
120 cals
13g fat
0g protein
0g carbs

butter is similar with a teeny bit of carbs.

A tablespoon of olive oil with mixed herbs, salt&pepper over roast chicken or a pork chop.
Or chicken with lettuce and mayo as a salad. Sometimes add slivered nuts.
Cream cheese and scrambled eggs cooked in butter.
Chicken in peppercorn cream sauce.
Tuna with mayo and olive oil.
Creamed mushrooms on LC toast.
Almond flour bread with butter.
Nut butters as a snack.
Cream cheese with a dash of lemon juice and splenda as a snack.

I only eat when I'm hungry, but higher fat is not as filling as high protein. Still filling, and hunger is controlled because low carbing and eating enough protein. It's a plus to be able to eat a little more and therefore fit in something tastier than just grilled meat.

With so many calories in fat, you will need to watch that and find your calorie amount to keep losing. We all know it's not easy to eat another piece of chicken, but really easy to throw in a tsp or more of oil/butter. Hopefully you'll find that you can eat a little more calories.

LOL I like you "I do what works" approach. I"ve found I lose more when I eat more fat too. I choke down a couple tbsp of coconut oil every once in a while.

Yep, that's pretty much this "Optimal Diet" idea. I have ALWAYS lost best with fat, but my proteins have slowly crept up, because hey, they're low carb! :P

Anyway, I went on Hcg last November and lost 30 pounds, and I maintained it for a few months, but I found a thread on the "Boxing Ring" part of the Hcg forum and there was a brouhaha going on with a woman promoting JK's diet. It's on the Optimum Diet website. It involves ratios specific to each person, but the gist of it was that you want to ratio your Proteins:Fats:Carbs as 1(P):2-2.5(F):.3-.8(C). So, for me, this meant to maintain my weight, I would take my ideal weight (130 right now) and convert it to kg (59 for me) that's how many grams protein you need in a day, I think. Then you base your fat and carbs off of that, so mine would be 59g:118-147g:18-47g(P:F:C). I have scaled this down calorie wise, as that's what they recommend on the website, and have stayed at about 1:1-1.5:.4 every day this past week. I've gone from 161 to 153.2

Fat is my friend..........fat is my friend........fat is my friend........:P

oh, that's interesting, I will have a go at working it out for myself. I would have to scale down as well to lose weight.

I just started a couple of days ago with eating way more fat. I have broken a 8 month stall this way!!!! I had been blaming my long stall on my BP meds and insulin. All I know is adding more fat and less carbs is working for me!! Thanks for the posts as they have really helped me!!:)

This is such an important concept! Protein being burned, in the absence of fat, taking you out of ketosis. Thank you for sharing it with us!

I checked and found this website with information that seems to back up what is happening:

http://www.insulin-pumpers.org/howto/pfandbs-2.html



The article ends with this:



So when glucose is low, the body has the choice of using ketones (from fat) or making glucose (from protein). This explains why Atkins emphasizes us getting plenty of fat in the diet.

I have a tendendency to move to high protein, moderate fat, low carb which = stall. I am trying to add in more fat and less protein to bust down the next 10 lbs. It's hard! Last night i made pork chops and I coated them in crushed pork rinds and fried them in a butter/EVOO combo served with mayonaisse. I used to make that kind of food all the time, but have moved to the lower fat chicken....both my DH and i are in a weight loss lull, I have got to make more effort to put more fat back in. Thanks for posting this.

That must feel SO good shellbaby. Excellent!

Thanks so much for posting the science NortonMan, that will help many of us. I know I like things explained (although my body intuition is always first *grin*).

The same site also says:


RaceGirl28 let us know how it goes. Good luck!

I had a week of no loss due to carb up days (parties) and then having to lose the small gain. No problem - I thoroughly enjoyed the parties.

Back to regular program, weight coming off nice and steady again. I think I've lost 4.6lbs/2.1kg since the stall and going high fat. That includes some carb-up days (parties, eating out). So when I'm losing, I'm actually losing at the rate of about 1.5lbs a week.

Wow...this makes me want to do high fat for a while. I have my wedding in 5.5 weeks and I've been stuck trying to lose the last 7 pounds. Don't know what to do about that.

my problem is that my only source of fat is seeds and cheese for the most part because I can't wrap my mind around adding a tbsp of fat to something when that 120cal is equal to an extra piece of fish. I need to reframe my thinking I guess. I could give it a week.

Nica: how, many carbs do you eat? How much exercise do you get?? We seem to be pretty close in size.

Hi veglover.

Thing is with protein, is that you need enough for muscle repair and other technical whatnots (I would say I eat below recommended amounts). But as for eating-wise - you need to eat enough to feel satisfied, to not feel hunger. We're all different so you just discover that out for yourself through trail and error. if you need that extra piece of fish to stave off hunger, then better have that than fats.

So, once you have enough and no more, you make up the rest of your calories with fat, and carbs last of all. I eat very low carb (when fat losing) so for me carbs just pop in by default, rather than I include them. Such as carbs in milk, cheese, nuts, etc.

I ate 1/2 a can of drained tuna in water for lunch today, with mayo, olive oil, and herbs added. It fills me up and is tasty, I'll eat the rest a little later.

Me personally, I find hard cheese seems to stall me. And polyols wreaked havoc. I do eat fatty cream cheese - filling!

The aim is to play with your macronutrient percentages so that fat is highest. At least 65%. I use Fatsecret free online.

Also, now that I'm so close to my goal, I have found that physical movement helps a LOT. Notice I don't say exercise. :)
More housework, short or long walks, gardening, that sort of thing. There is only so low you ought to take your calories, and also your body adjusts so much. I do this only every 3rd day.

As you still have 5 weeks to go, no harm giving it a try for a couple of weeks, see what happens.

Let me know!

Hi Again veg lover!
I eat 70% fat 25% protein 5% carbs
A quick way to up your fats is to take a tablespoon of flaxseed oil morning and night. It is disgusting, worse than cod liver oil, but it is quick and easy. I am used to this taste now.
Another is coconut oil, this you can eat, or use it to cook with or add it to black coffee.
I use both of these daily to change my ratios round so fat is the highest %, it broke my stall and i have to say the flax seed oil makes me go to the toilet ;) I dont have time with work and the gym to sit and think of different ways of upping my fat so this was a quick solution and it woked for me.
2 tablespoons of either will give you 240 calories and 27g of fat according to fit day. Flaxseed oil has some brilliant health benefits if you google it.

Good luck :)

Thanks for the advice ladies. I guess its just being trapped in the" I want to maximize my food intake for the caloriies I consume" mindset that makes me default to cutting fat intake.

So my macros are often 50% protein, 35% fat, and 15% carbs (sometimes 30/20 for fat/carbs).

I have not been hungry at all while eating 1700 calories max and getting my burn up to 2200-2500 calories. So I definitely have a deficit but the weigt is coming off. hopefully im retaining water in my fat cells to displace the lost fat and it comes off soon.

I calculated the optimum ratios for myself ... and it looks like I would have to eat 210 grams of fat .... I'm not sure I can do that. I barely hit 150g a day. But I feel like I'm stalling and I want the scale to move. ugggggg

I find it easier to work on ratios/percentages sunny068, rather than grams. I ignore recommendations and eat what is right for my body and hunger. I don't eat anywhere near my recommendations, slow metabolism, thyroid, who knows, but recommendations are only guidelines, for anyone.
Just keep fat percentage around 65-80%, and carbs low. Regardless of grams or calories. But keep an eye on cals just to be sure I'm not overeating (as so easy to add fats).

Flaxseed oil is very healthy. Personally, I prefer to only include tasty foods in my diet. I want this as a way of life.... and I like nice tastes! lol
I find adding olive oil to main meals pretty easy. And nut butters as snacks.

One more thing I wanted to add.

If you have had issues with protein, which is why I began shifting towards fat in the first place. (difficulty digesting, stalling)

What I have also discovered is that I seem to lose more (and have better BMs) when I eat fish rather than chicken (breast is worst) or pork. Oily fish mostly - tuna, salmon, mackerel.

Really??? (about the fish and BM). I eat buffalo wings like EVERY single day. I did have tuna for the 1st time in a very long time this week so maybe I'll add that back in more reguarly. I also have ahi tuna steaks that I need to cook, and swordfish steaks, how are those as far as fat?

Yes, I was eating mostly chicken, and felt my digestion wasn't very good (keep in mind I don't have the best digestion). The food sat in a way that felt dry and a long digestion process. I don't have this with fish. There must be something in the protein make-up - how it's digested and how the protein is used.
I have to eat more when I eat fish to not lose too much. ymmv, but as always, worth a try.

Yesterday I had a higher carb day, with salmon (110g) and veg, in a cheese cream sauce for lunch. I still lost. I know this wouldn't have happened with the same amount (calories) of chicken.

I have 11 Lbs to go before i get to my goal and my ideal weight. I then have a operation to get my excess skin removed. I have slowed right up for the first time in the whole process of my diet. now reading up on this i am maybe knowing why. I eat mostly proteins. Tuna Fish Chicken but recently more pork and red meats i use a protein shake fist thing in the morning. Should i now include more fats ? and drop the proteins ? could this help me get these last 11 lbs of faster? i am used to 4 - 8 Lbs loss in a week .. let me know what you thinkg guys?? forgot to add do you have any suggestions of higher fat food with not that many cals or just higher fat foods in general? and where to get coconut oil/

thanks

Excellent thread! Very informative. I have been on the Optimal Diet for a while and it works best. I find I still have fat paranoia and don't eat enough. Will work on it.

Yikes! Got the fat up but so did the calories. I need to stay between 1500 and 1200 cals per day to see any loss. It seems to be a menopause thing. I ended up at 2000 cals today. That will be un tenable for me.

what sort of higher fat things have you been eating???

this is my first day of more fat - and a loss of one lb . now down to 14 st 10 Lbs. i had the same loss last week but it went back up the pound the next day. so lets see tomorrow if it is still down at the 14:10 Lbs. should i cut out protein? i have been using it all my diet as in chicken and tuna eggs and protein shake. (whey) i looked into protein and i should be eating 165 - 206 g of protein a day for loss - should i also keep below that?

Israeli - yes, you can't just add more fat. Look back at the earlier posts.

It's about ratios, or percentages. I eat about 70% fat. But keep my calories to what works for me. Adjust your fats slowly and reduce everything else, to find your optimal percentage and amount of food.

the gould, no such thing as high fat and low calorie!

Forget about what you should be eating regarding protein. Just experiment and discover yourself what works for your body. I eat below recommended amounts of protein, and higher fat.

As I said previously - eat just enough protein to keep hunger away. Then eat lots of fat, and minimal carbs. Adjust as needed to keep calories not too high.

Also, worrying about 1lb up or down every day is going to send you crazy. Our bodies are too complex to look at so closely on a daily basis. Weigh less often, or at least don't worry about it so much. And take measurements and body fat counts - they're better especially when you get closer to your goal.