I'm doing Niacin Therapy
 

Putting this here in the War Zone because I realize talking about megadoses of vitamins sounds like WOOOOO to many people.

But I am living proof there is something to it. I first started using niacin to help with my sleep: which it did, wonderfully. I went off: felt bad again, went back on. This inspired me to delve into it more, and I read the book about it.

This book, Niacin: The Real Story: Learn about the Wonderful Healing Properties of Niacin, is a compendium of several doctors' work with long experience using niacin for all kinds of ailments.

I am on the third day of their recommended dosing schedule, which is: 1g of niacin, a B complex, and Vitamin C, three times a day. With meals, though I take it with my tea and coconut oil as breakfast and do fine.

I got here by gradually increasing my niacin dose, and also ramping up the C. Love my C!

I feel good, and I will see how it goes. I need a lot of healing: I had an undiagnosed illness for years and it derailed me in a lot of ways. I was first drawn to niacin because of its beneficial action on the effects of stress; and boy, did I have stress!

The key to understanding niacin's healing qualities is in its amazing ability to combat inflammation. This is what kills us when we eat the SAD. This is implicated in arthritis, auto-immune disorders, heart disease, even mental illness.

To understand the incredible impact of inflammation on our brain, I recommend Brain on Fire, by a young woman who suddenly fell into a severe psychosis which did not respond to any medical treatment. Only an alert diagnostician saved her from permanent brain damage and spending the rest of her life in an asylum. She had a rare infection which creates inflammation in the brain, much like meningitis does.

Also, must report that since going on a serious niacin dosing schedule: cravings have disappeared. I am eating better than ever (when I was sick I could not achieve ketosis) and things I would have caved and had (like higher carb vegetables, or gluten free things that are high in carbs) just do not appeal.

That in itself is kind of a miracle :)

Niacin used to help me with my bum shoulder quite a bit. Haven't needed it for the last few years. I think the niacin flush might partly work in the same way that heat and cold work. It's an interesting vitamin. The flush type has largely disappeared from stores around here, I don't get any obvious therapeutic benefit from the other types.

Very interesting on the cravings. The flush type causes a temporary decrease in lipolysis, followed later by a compensatory increase in growth hormone, and higher free fatty acids than you started with, to me this seems like a possible way to sort of hack the circadian rhythm.

Your schedule is very different from what mine was, I took it once per day, generally on an empty stomach.

I had trouble IFing before, I was too sick to get the ketosis going; I would eat what would normally be a fine low carb meal, and wind up starving. Skipping a meal, which used to be easy, became very difficult.

Then, as the effects of my cortisol resistance worsened, I had no appetite. I lived on cold cuts and ice cream because they were the few things I could eat.

I was taking anti-inflammatory herbs, Devils Claw and White Willow, to improve my sleep. Switching to niacin got me the same benefits without worrying about losing their effectiveness or possible NSAID-like side effects.

Just purchased the book. I'm having a hard time finding good pure niacin tablets. Any recommendations in terms of what brand gave you the most success and the dosage amount that enables you to adjust to what's appropriate for your total daily dose? I'm thinking 50mg to 100mg which would enable me to increase tablets for the correct dose and take them 2x or 3x daily.

I use the Now Brand from iherb.com

I get the 500mg so I don't know what other sizes they offer. But I have always gotten quality products there.

I have never found good niacin in drug stores or health stores. Is that the difficulty?

My Dr. prescribed 500 mg stuff that would cause skin flush unless I took it with aspirin. A couple of years ago Niagen was amazing, but that quit working after 12 months. Now I use MitoQ, but still suffer from chronic fatigue.

The first chapter is a hard chemistry slog, but then the book gets much more readable.

I'm sorry to hear. DH has chronic fatigue. According to the book, if niacin works, then stops, it is a sign to increase the dose. (But of course, I am not a doctor, and don't know you. I urge you, if interested, to read the book.)

I'm taking 3g a day, in three increments, each time with a B complex and as much C as I can handle, currently 6k a day.

I don't flush any more. Even at the dose I'm taking now. Which is what is supposed to happen. I don't mind the flush, but it's nice to know I won't be randomly turning pink in public. :)

The flush is a temporary thing. As we ramp up, it dwindles and goes away.

Thanks. That's what I discovered yesterday when I tried to find some pure niacin in 100mg tablets as the authors suggested to build on my doses and find out how much I need to cause a flush. Great way to discover one's proper dosage by the way. Target and Wal-Mart were useless, I finally found a 100mg dose by Solgar at The Vitamin Shoppe, so I've started with that and then ordered a brand by Carlsons in the same dosage through Amazon. I'll check out iherb.com when I determine what my combination needs to be to reach my daily dose. Book is very good, and I like that it was stated early on that niacin dosing varies by individual.

It is an easy read -- past the first chapter! :lol:

I have always gotten good results, at any level. The book is what inspired me to go Full Metal Niacin, since I am still recovering from a very bad spell of illness, with a metric TON of stress; and one of the things niacin is very good for is PTSD.

So wish the medical world would give it a try on our returning veterans.

The book points out that with today's science, it would actually be classed as an amino acid. But, as the author says, "Too late now."

Which sheds light on its ability to help our brains. Perhaps, under stress, this particular amino acid is hard hit on the production lines; much as stress creates "progesterone steal" and we are low on that hormone. Adding progesterone to my regimen after menopause did wonders for me.

So adding this amino acid back in makes our brains work properly. And as I have discovered, when our brains are stressed and not working properly, it becomes a physical disease also; all those signals are not being sent right to the various glands and organs. Then those organs don't work right, either.

It's produced from tryptophan, same as serotonin, also melatonin. Niacin deficiency causes pellegra, some of the symptoms are schizophrenic-like. Leading to the theory of niacin as a schizophrenia therapy--which I'm very skeptical of, all you have to do is come across a particular cohort of "schizophrenics" who are actually niacin deficient, and you have evidence of niacin as a therapy. Then again, there have been cases of mania and depression that turned out to be symptoms of thyroid disorders, so it's probably worth looking out for, all the same.

I don't entirely understand your skepticism: are you saying these "schizophrenics" were misdiagnosed as such? That they should have been diagnosed as a kind of extreme-pellagra-dementia situation?

Because it was just such a mental link that led Dr. Hoffer to use it successfully on "schizophrenics" in his practice.

As someone who went through a hellish menopause, I can assure you that estrogen is another hormone which, unregulated, can be mistaken for mental illness.

My skepticism isn't that niacin is an unlikely treatment, I just dont think an overarching theory of everything is in order, there are people out there who do. Hoffer worked in Saskatchewan, it's possible that the local diet or a relatively homogenous population (my mom's side of the family was part of that population, when he was doing his work there) set people up for a niacin deficiency.

Incidentally, one of the supposed differences in niacin metabolism in schizophrenics is a reduced flush response. When my Dad tried niacin, he had to ramp up 100 mg at a time, took him a while. I ramp up a lot quicker.

True. There's a disorder, but also multiple causes.

And multiple degrees of severity, deficiency and/or resistance.

Exactly. On top of which is individual variation, like teaser was referring to.

I got into nutritional tactics because my DH has a chronic fatigue illness. But I have found that what works for me might not work for him, and what is vital to him does nothing for my issues.

However, I have a close relative who is doing well from what benefits me. Which makes sense: we share a lot of genetics.

This niacin thing is so radical and intriguing, not to mention targeting my big issues like stress and sleep, that I just have to "experiment on myself." That's what I've been doing since I started Atkins over a decade ago.

This is just the latest experiment.

Additionally:

Back in the day, sick people were sent away to rest. Tuberculosis sanitariums, rest homes, and so forth allowed their patients the space to recover.

I'm not getting that.

Granted, antibiotics worked out better than the cure porch. But what I need after the hellish years of great stress and body pushed to the limits is some rest and relaxation, but I can't have that. Medicine these days is "give you a pill and show you the door," and while for some things that is better; I believe that, for some things, it is worse.

hey you might want to research by googling niacin insulin resistance obesity.

While I'm more than willing to experiment on myself, I'm a bit leery of B vitamins. A while back I read that a B - I think it as B1 - was good for lowering blood glucose. And it did! I was really excited until I realized it was also lowering my blood pressure to unhealthy levels. So I quit.

Does niacin also lower blood pressure?

Only in the sense that it helps with Metabolic Syndrome.

The authors, three doctors, quote a lot of scientific papers and recommend a Whole Foods/low carbish diet, and taking lots of C, and a B complex with each dose.

I think you were right to see how the B1 worked for you. I am monitoring my own reactions and I ramped up slowly.

Great point. It could explain the wonderful effect on my appetite regulation. I eat a nice low carb meal, not too big, and I am not hungry for hours. Just as it should be!

One article I saw though, got me ragey: they were all "does the niacin fortification in the flour lead to diabetes...."

Because of course it cannot be the flour!

Jumping in here, because I've started on niacin, both me and my 13 yr. old daughter.

I have long suspected my family had poor absorption of niacin and other B vitamins, many of us suffer from acne, obesity, arthritic aches and pains (not to mention needing hip replacements as we age), gallbladder issues, and mental issues having to do with stress such as depression and anxiety. I have 3 daughters, the oldest is already grown up and gone. The 2nd and 3rd still home. Our 3rd has obesity and acne, complains of aches and pains, and is depressed with some anxiety and disordered thinking. Our 2nd has a tendency to obesity and acne and depression as well, but less so. So rather than going the medical route I've talked DD3 into niacin therapy and she's going to try it; I'm also going on it but in lesser doses for my arthritic type symptoms.

So we've been on for a couple of days now. I'm taking 500 g after supper, I had a minor flush, mainly on the forearms. I wonder why the flush is mainly there? When I took one in the morning I had a major painfully tingling all body flush that reached to the toes. Felt like being dipped in hot sauce! Not really sure why as I also had it after food, but I'll try to avoid that. DD3 had an intense flush the first time she had it and it seems to have died down a fair bit, fairly quickly.

I do seem to have reduced pain symptoms and am sleeping better and dealing well with stress.

On the down side, when I take it it feels like my heart has pain and is strained a bit. I woke today with a bit of angina, which I don't generally have. I know the dilation of blood vessels happens systemically and I suppose that's happening to my heart as well.

On the good side, there are increased vaginal lubrications, lol! I haven't noticed a decrease in my hunger, or any change in weight but it is early days yet. I am not currently low carbing but do avoid milk as I am lactose intolerant.

I'm going to note any changes with DD3, which is the main thing.

Other things I take fairly regularly are ibuprofen (600 mg at morning and sometimes before bed or after a nap if I feel achy), Vit. C, Vit. D and Biotin. I have a tendency not to absorb enough calcium and I occasionally get crampy, so I also fairly often take chewable calcium, potassium, magnesium, and an algae called Chlorella which is a greens supplement with good results.

I have a large family to look after, drive bus part time, volunteer a lot, go to church regularly, don't smoke, drink coffee and alcohol very sparingly and am nearly 50 living near the PNW where we don't get much sun but lots of fresh air, views and moisture. This beautiful land feeds my spirit.

I have joint pain, especially in the knees, but I am carrying almost 300 lbs. every day, up and down buses, walking, etc. I love soaking in hot water for the pain relief and relaxation. I also find the volunteering relaxing though somewhat tiring also, and have to be careful to limit it sometimes. I knit, paint, journal, play solitary mind-stimulating games such as Sudoku, crosswords and Mahjong a fair bit, and have a beautiful cat. :D

The book emphasizes taking a B complex with every dose of niacin.

I've gotten a bottle of lower dose B complex to take three times a day.

More than 2/3 of the way through the book, and I'm really enjoying it. The identification of the dangers of sugar and processed carbs from these authors in their practices and research since the 60s, 70s, and 80s indicates to me that their nutritional awareness covered a lot of areas including the ones that weren't in vogue at the time. The stories and anecdotes are very interesting.

Started the niacin protocol over the weekend and ordered a quantity of B-Complex that will arrive tomorrow. I'm embarking on another N=1 as well and learning as much as I can in the process.

Got this warning from an online friend:



As always, keep monitoring body signals and listen to them. I have been tested for this gene, and it does not affect me. But it does affect DH.

And yet another reason to start slow, and build gradually.

I am having trouble sleeping, but I don't think it's the niacin: it's the US election results. If anything, niacin is helping me get back to sleep. Despite the 2 am waking (a symptom of cortisol problems) when I do wake up at my usual time, I feel rested, instead of that OMG-crashed feeling from not having good sleep at all.



Thrilled to have company on this voyage! A close relative with stress problems is also starting the therapeutic level at this time, and reading the book.

Yes, the book occasionally startled me with the whole grains recc, but they wouldn't have known about Dr. Davis' work with grains. And there would have been no research about the MTFHR gene. They do repeat that not everyone gets results with niacin; and that just might be why.

One of the things the book repeats, that I just love, is, "X disease is not a drug-deficiency disease." It makes so much sense to give the body what it needs.

This was also the part that gave my relative pause: why do we need so much? How could we get this in an ancestral environment?

I think we didn't need it so much in the ancestral environment. I took up niacin largely because of stress. As my GP put it, "literal killer stress." Modern life, and modern mayhem, and poor diet for decades: that's going to add up and affect the brain; which the book does discuss.

Welcome, Sandy! The flush is a mysterious part.

Thanks! I had a little flush, barely noticeable last night. Am thinking of taking a tablet after breakfast today and doing the whole flush again or see if it happens.

I don't like taking the whole B-complex, such great horse pills and I doubt they absorb very well. I don't like the smell also. And I am leery of having to take everything together. I know they are a group of vitamins that have been lumped together and I'd rather tease them apart and identify which I really need.

As I see it, niacin targets ectodermic tissues; skin, nails and hair, brain and nerves, breasts and glands in the skin, eyes, ears and nose. The vasodilation effects everything, though, and probably provides a detox in that blood reaches each area more efficiently in spots that are poorly vascularized and fatty areas of the body qualify. It probably is this quality that is the anti-cancer property of this vitamin.

I take biotin, another B-vitamin for its good effects on nails, skin and hair as well. I noticed when I started taking it that not only did my nails improve but grey hairs went dark again! Not all of them, but some. Now that is something!

The vitamin C I take is the chewable kind, and I tend to have the higher dosages but I don't take it every day, just whenever I feel my immune system is low or I need greater healing capabilities for it's boost to connective tissue.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2947210/

Anybody who's ever been on the Zone diet probably remembers Sears going on about eicosanoids, these are little metabolites involved in regulation of inflammation, produced from essential fatty acids. Some of them promote vasodilation, flush-type niacin increases production of eicosanoids which do this.