Rapid Weight Loss Causes Gall Stones??????
 

A google search brought this up--- NEVER encountered this subject until now.



Unfortunately the time of "fasting" has not been defined here. What are the risks for a 24 hour 23/1 fast, or a 36??

This is not in DANDR, probably because fasting was not discussed beyond Fat Fasts----

Is Johns Hopkins information correct?????

Dr Berg's take on the subject___
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4W8gASMBz_I

Dr. Fung's answer:

Thanks Janet!!

Hard to beleive our survival over the ages would create anything but a well functioning gall bladder!!

Found Dr. Ken Barry's take on the situation. He goes so far as to say bile is only used for saturated fats. Hmm bet the number of gall bladder surgerys for gall stones has shot up over the last 40 years!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgO7gIaG_Zg

Fasting can do funny things. My first full day fast, I woke up at 1 in the morning and vomited yellow bile. I was already on a fairly high fat diet, and ate very regularly, I sort of suspect my body had a rhythm of bile secretion that was connected to my usual eating times. Or something. This never happened again.

What Dr Barry's saying--I think he may be taking some license in that he thinks our "intended" diet is one of saturated fat, so the digestion of saturated fat is what bile is "for."



Squirrel monkeys... but perhaps some relevance to human beings, and the evidence that a low calorie diet that is also low in fat might increase gallstones.
In the monkeys, at least--saturated fat increasing bile production versus safflower, and this preventing gallstones on a high cholesterol diet is interesting, since their natural sources of dietary saturated fat would also be their natural sources of dietary cholesterol.

If it's normal to dispose of some excess cholesterol through the gallbladder, and if bile acid is needed to be above a certain level to prevent stone formation in this situation--you could see, in a long-term adaptation sense, why people on the SAD diet might develop a problem on a low fat diet, even though there are populations on extremely low fat diets without this problem. If bile is needed for several purposes, but most of your life, you've eaten enough fat that the signal for production from the fat consumed is sufficient for all purposes, the body becomes a poor regulator when that signal is absent. That is, a fasting creature still needs sufficient bile acid to prevent stone formation, but a lifetime of very little fasting means that the genetic/physiological programming for that state never quite got unpacked. Blah blah blah epigenetics and appropriate sciencey stuff.

:thup: All good stuff.

My previous understanding was that bile managed the digestion of all fats. The "saturated" fats Dr B mentioned might be because so many have become anti- saturated fat, and his point was we can eat saturated fats.

Ive always thought fat is good for us. And thought the gall bladder was kept healthier by eating some fat.

Thanks for all the good stuff found in that study!

I have read that most people on high carb diets are pretending to be healthy by trying to eat lean meats if any meat at all. It's the none use of the gallbladder that causes it to stop working correctly. Use it or loose it. Then they'll have it removed and keep eating that death diet. :lol:

Also, Fiber Menace book said that fiber gums up the gallbladder.

Yes, " use it or lose it" Apparently the medical community are drumming up business with the low fat craze. ( grin)

Good thing my fiber is limited to a serving of flax a day for the estrogen, and any other fiber is from fruit and veggies. Scallions have a surprising amount of "chew" , lol

Can you expand on the details from the FIber Menace book? My wish list is already too long to add another book at this time.

I can't remember word for word but it had something to do with the connection of the gall bladder getting gummed up.

k.

Perhaps it is what is in the Dr Barry video-- without use the bile material concentrates and becomes a thickened mass that is very difficult to expel thru the narrow tubing meant for a thin viscous fluid. It is all about the carbs: low fat SAD diet, according to Dr B, causes the development of the sludge.

Eating fats keeps the bile squirting out ! :D

It's possible a low fat diet keeps the gallbladder on alert for a signal that comes too rarely. While sufficient fat in the diet puts it in a better state: often called upon, but then it can be asleep when food is absent.

High carb consumption throws off so many systems.

Stones, grit, pebbles, sludge - whatever you call it, this is pretty much what happens when you eat too low fat for too long. At some point when you eat some extra fat again, the gall bladder tries to do what it's meant to do, and the ducts get clogged with all that sludge , causing pain and vomiting.

[ETA: I experienced this in my early 40's, and had my gall bladder removed - it's considered to be the 3-F problem: Forty, Fat, Female]


I was of course told to eat low fat forever to avoid having problems with undigested fats. At some point even the most vigilant of low fat dieters is going to increase their fat intake. Good thing that having your gall bladder removed doesn't necessarily mean you're really stuck with a lifetime of low fat eating. Mine was removed about 25 years ago, and I now eat lots of fat with no problem.



From what I understand, over time, the duct from the liver develops a little pouch which stores extra bile, and acts almost like a replacement gall bladder. Granted, it was probably almost 10 years after my gall bladder was removed before I went LC and significantly upped my fat intake, but apparently I'd been eating extra fat often enough and long enough on a high carb diet to develop that bile storage pouch, which seems to work adequately to digest all the fats I eat.

Im thrilled that your body adapted to the situaton and you can eat fat normally.

My understanding is that the bile continues to be produced and just keep dribbling into the intestines; your "replacement" gall bladder theory is remarkable.

The body is amazing--doctors mess with it far too much!

While I certainly can't say for sure that I've developed some kind of bile storing pouch over the years, that was just something I remember reading a few years ago, offered as an explanation for how even those who have had their gall bladders removed could eat an occasional high fat meal without becoming sick.



On the other hand, it could be that removing the gall bladder disrupts the bile release signaling system so much that the liver constantly trickles a bit more bile than before, whether you're eating or not, so that there will always be enough bile to handle a higher fat meal.



It's not like they told me a certain number of grams of fat to not exceed per meal. They just said to eat a low fat diet, since I didn't have the gall bladder to handle excess fats. But what's excess fats? I may eat a lot of fats now, but I don't consider them to be in excess, I consider them to be the amount I need on a LC diet.

Whatever method your liver used, it is very cool to have it function well.

The liver is an organ with great regenerative powers. In a college advanced biology class experiment, the removal of one lobe of the liver resulted in a regrowth in a matter of months. My first into that our bodies are wonderous, and can do much more than modern medicine credits.

Sometimes, more often than not, the doctors need to go back to school. Removing a gall bladder should be the LAST option.

I was fortunate, sort of, that after a few days of low fat, low calorie dieting in the late 70's, early 80's, I quit trying to diet at all. Ate everything. One saving grace is that my gall bladder got a good work out.

The "bad" is that there is likely damage to nerves and fine capillaries. I have asked for years about occassional numbness in fingers, and get blown off...... while it certainly could be nothing serious, I now read it as a wake up call.

Traded one issue for another.

Before low fat, doctors would “clean out” the gall bladder and let it heal. It was considered a vital organ.