Body builders also take steroids; and they tend to die young. Look at poor Arnold. Wasn't it a Quadruple bypass? Yes they take all sorts of artificial junk. But for anyone here was around in the 60's, have any of the modern bodybuilders ever looked as good as Steve Reeves did? He used totally natural methods.

We are fat here because we eat too much, and too much of the wrong foods. I see no reason to risk even more of our health by taking more artificial junk. Zero fat has already been proven to promote colon cancer. Natural is the best way to go. I've lost 50 pounds and I feel much better than I have in years. I can wait for the rest to come off naturally.

Good Luck in your own efforts

I really wish people would understand disordered eating....

all anorexics are NOT skinny.

I was as anorexic at 228 pounds as I was when I was dancing ballet...anorexia is in your HEAD, your attitudes to food and the lengths you go and obsess over food. Food is everything, passion and pain to you. You love it and that makes you hate it and yourself.

LC is one way for people with eating disorders to get control of bad eating habits and be healthy.

I embrace it because it is teaching me that numbers are less important than leanness...and that leanness is beautiful regardless of the number or dress size.

Crista

I can talk from personal experience...

During early 1997, I ate a diet close to 1,000 calories/day, with 92g Carbs, and I got a couple hours of vigorous exercise on weekdays. After 6 months, I had lost 22 pounds.

Now, flash foward to early 2003, I eat a diet close to 3,000 calories/day, with 10-20g Carbs, and exercise weekly. In the past 4 months, I have lost 62 pounds, almost 3 times, what I lost in 6 months on a 1,000 calorie a day, low-fat diet.

I have varied my caloric consumption while on Atkins and have found that no matter how I vary it, it does not effect my weight loss. I lose less eating 700 calories/day as I do consuming 3,000 calories a day.

April 16:

2656 Calories
1850 Fat Calories
Total Fat -- 206g
Sat. Fat -- 94g
Total Carbs -- 12g
Fiber -- 4g
Protein -- 183g
Weight Lost -- 1.5 Pounds (254.5 --> 253.0)

April 6:

675 Calories
395 Fat Calories
Total Fat -- 44g
Sat. Fat -- 5g
Total Carbs -- 23g
Fiber -- 8g
Protein -- 48g
Weight Lost -- 0.5 Pounds (257.0 --> 256.5)

I'm so glad to see how well Atkins is working for everyone! Congratulations - over 65 lbs.!

I'm sorry to say that on Atkins, if I eat more than 1500-1600 cals (and work out 4 x a week - vigorously) I don't lose any fat. Guess women are different!

I registered at this site to get to know and see other peoples low carb experiences and had no intentions of preaching a different method of weight loss because I know how much I hate it when people register at my usual forum to preach how a certain lifestyle is wrong. That being said....

Please be aware that while this is a low carb dieting forum, there may be members here who have disordered eating. For me, as an example, my anorexia grew out of my low carb dieting over a matter of months. Now I am not trying to dissuade anyone of low carb dieting because it did in fact work and before I began cutting calories out, I was very pleased with it. Its just that I do somewhat resent the stereotypes that are being thrown around this site about anorexics. Lets all just be supportive of one another and keep in mind some people may have larger food issues lurking deep. Thank you guys so much.

btw, anorexics frequently fear carbohydrates, even moreso than fat.

Sabrina

Hi Sabrina,

You are in the War Zone Forum which is quite different from the rest of the Forum. It does not represent the whole forum. In other words "the opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the management." Above all, we uphold a sane, safe and healthy approach to changing your way of life with low-carbing as one of the tools.

Here is the stickie at the top of the War Zone Forum in case you haven't read it:

This War Zone forum was created to provide a place for opponents of low-carbing to debate the merits of this lifestyle and diet. We may also choose to move here any heated debates that erupt in our other low-carb support forums, when the discussion gets more "colourful". Many of these debates end up being heated and offensive to some members who are looking for support, not angry arguments.

Active Low-Carber Forums has always promoted a supportive environment for its members. For this reason, we decided to open this special forum for those who don't mind a heated debate. For those who might be easily offended, they have the choice to not participate in this area.

So, this forum has a more relaxed set of rules to allow for such debates. However, obscenities will not be tolerated here. We will remove any profanity, and replace it with *** as we see fit. In addition, we will discourage personal attacks, blatant flames and insults that detract from the debate and add nothing to the discussion.

For example, if you label someone with obscenities, such as "you're a f**king moron", it willl be deleted and your account will be suspended. If you call someone "a jerk, or idiot" and the like, your post will be edited, but your account will not be suspended. However, repetitive abuses will result in suspension. When your post has been edited, we will leave a comment, and reminder to observe the rules.

If you strongly believe in your argument, there's no need for obscenities.

In addition, members are encouraged to provide references to research and medical studies. Do not be offended if someone asks you for proof to what you claim is a fact.

Please note that while the rules are relaxed here in this War Zone forum, we will continue as we've always done to uphold the rules of the Registration Agreement in all other areas of our support forums. Members who start flame wars in other areas of the forum, will be suspended.

If someone comes here with an obvious eating disorder, we advise them to get help ASAP.

Karen

Like everything else (including water consumption) ephedrine in moderation is not dangerous, less so for some than others. I have ADHD as do all my children and my ex-wife as well--we gave them a genetic double-whammy, so to speak. For adults and teenagers past adolescence, the treatment of choice is Dexedrine (or Adderal, a sort of timed release Dexedrine). PET scans of "normal" brains vs ADHD brains, only available since the early 90's, show very clear differences in glucose metabolism in the frontal lobes--ADHD brains have only 10-20% of normal brains. Dexedrine (and Ritalin in adolescents) has a very different effect on ADHD brains than on normal brains--it increases glucose metabolism to about 90% of normal.

What is my point?? Dexedrine was first synthesized from Ephedrine, making it about 2-2-1/2 times more effective as a stimulant. For those of us not well-heeled enough to afford the costs of prescriptions, and doctor visits once a month (USDA in its infinite wisdom prohibits prescribing Dexedrine for more than 30 days) have to find less expensive alternatives. Ephedrine worked for me fairly well until I discovered L-Tyrosine. The point is that persons with ADHD probably are at less risk from ephedrine than normal people. Since there is about a 1 in 5 chance that a person has ADHD, it might be well to get tested b4 spouting off about banning it from the market.

Greetings everyone:

A recap: The initial post advocated a LOW CARB, LOW FAT, HIGH PROTEIN diet, reducing calories low. He admitted it has an effect(namely a 10% metabolic reduction) but he balanced that with Xenadrine (I guess exercise could also be a substitute metablolic increaser)).

The first reactionary post cited a study which comapared low calorie eaters (that were JUST restricting calories, not carbs), with those that were restricting carbs but not restricting calories. Forgive me, but I don't see how this study relates. The diet the original poster is advocating is not just low cal, it's also low carb, and although he seems to pin a lot on calories, he's not actually advocating low fat, high carb like most, he realizes the presence of insulin has an effect on body fat burning.


That being said, I must say.... (I shudder to bring this on myself) that I don't disagree with him. While, I would not advocate dieting at 1000 calories, cause its sucks for lack of a better word; I DO think that in some people cutting back on calories while on Atkins is the way to go. For me, for instance, I had a heck of a time losing after the 3rd week when I was eating high fat, high protein (consequently high calories). I was plateaued out for a while (even though I was excercizing, resistance training and all that... and don't say I was losing inches, cause 'taint true... it was a honest to god stall). I was also in ketosis... of varying levels, mainly medium sometimes large or extra large. So I knew my blood sugar was regulated... So the ketones registering were more than likely from dietary fat... it was frustrating nonetheless. Aaanyway. I started cutting fat a bit, not freaking out on copious amounts of hamburger and steak... having protein powder instead of cheese... it's working better now. I'm not a freak losing one pound a day. (what on earth would my skin do if that happened, eeew... i'm having difficulty as it is!) I'm losing more like 2 lbs per week. which is good.

Some atkins people advocate eating 10-12X your body weight per day. That would be on and over 2120 calories. I believe that will work for some, but not for others. Certainly not for me. I wish that were the case... i guess I'll just chalk it up to "everybody's different." (which is my normal argument when I'm confronted by people who disagree with my diet )

If you're wondering I eat about 1200-1500 calories a day, a decent bit of it is fat since I supplement with extra virgin coconut oil. But I try to keep the animal fat to a minimum (which for me is about once a day... I used to be a fiend!)

What am I rambling on? I'm just saying that I was someone who had to take a lower fat path on the LC lifestyle is all... so the guy isn't all wrong. Although his motivations seemed waaaay intense as a dieter... I can see why the word "anorexic" was thrown around. He seemed kinda like the stereotypical evil villain behind a chair, stroking a white cat and laughing as he lost weight before your eyes. Like the Dr. Evil of LC. "hahahahahahaaaa"

There's only one thing I disagreed with (well two... since I don't think the Xenadrine stuff is necessary, but I do exercise which gives a similar result in metabolic lift).... He mentioned something about eating 96 grams of carbs one day and taking ALA and still being in ketosis. ... .... Now... I must say that I'm not sure I believe that the ALA helped him (although he knows his level of insulemic reactions far better than I do). I read somewhere (don't you hate it when people begin this way) that the body dispenses insulin in proportion to the averages of your prior few meals, not what you actually eat per se. So if you've been LCing for years and you eat a candy bar it'll be a blip on the radar, may not even do a thing. But if you're only a week into it that same bar will easily put you out of ketosis. I remember a few weeks ago I ate about 90 grams of carbs. (I don't remember it being a heck of a lot of food, I think it was two of those tiny packages of hummus) and I was still in ketosis without any ALA. So everybody's different, maybe he's highly reactionary and needs the stuff or something. (I wanna note that my level of reaction is never constant and this week chili with like... 1/4 cup of kidney beans booted me out onto the cusp, which was no biggie I just took a walk and was back into it.)

This post is too long. I'm sorry. I'll stop now.

Thanks for the post.

As i said before Atkins himself did say The only thing essential for human life are Protein Amino Acids + Essential Fatty Acids (omega3/omega6) and multi vitamins.

Hence , if you eat all the protein and the essential fats like olive oil and canola oil and flaxseed oil ull be fine.

Caloric Deficits are necessary to speed up fat loss.

And eating maintenance at atkins will yield very crappy results.

some lose 2.5 lb a month thats very poor. excluding water or muscle.

I advocate low carb , high protein, essential fats (olive oil and canola oil etcc flax seeD) no stupid eating butters or or forcing urself to eat heavy whip cream.

even cheese is no good.

oprah herself went on a 4 months low carb low fat(essentials only) and protein diet.

The person that started this thread is dead wrong! I am a bodybuilder and I'm telling you, atheletes that use a low carb diet do not take in 200g protien and 0 fat! If anything, the opposite is true....they take in high protein and high fat, very low carbs. Then, for one or two days of the week, they will eat high carbs to replace muscle glycogen. Did you know that history demonstrates that when people were forced to eat a diet of nothing other than lean meat, they suffered from a condition know as "rabbit poisoning".....it caused weight loss, weakness, diarhea, and eventually death. Bottom Line: don't be posting dangerous advice like that if you don't know what you're talking about!

Man, those guys should be laying off the rabbit! I didn't know rabbits would react rapidly to a radical regimen rich only in protein--rather, I rationalized rabies was really their most ready risk.

I'm a little confused about a point Mikeroger made which seems to makes sense to me in theory and has been left unanswered in these threads.

One of his points is that while in ketosis your body has switched to burning fat as it's primary fuel, so he argues that if you are feeding your body a hight protein/high fat diet, then your body would just end up burning the dietary fat you are eating and sparing most of the fat stored in your body thus the slower weight loss. So by reducing (not completely cutting out) your dietary fat intake, your body will burn a higher percentage of body fat since dietary fat has been reduced and is not available for your body to use. Like I said, in theory this seems to make sense. Does anyone have any information or research on this as to why this wouldn't be the case or wouldn't be healthy.

I don't know the answer to your question (sorry!), but I sure wish I did!!! That has been a huge question for me, but I'm always afraid to ask it and get my head bitten off ! Maybe we're looking at it from the old 'calorie intake' point of view, tho. Like, if you create a calorie deficit, your body will used stored fat for energy, if you have too many calories, extra will be stored as fat. It's not that simple with fat burning????

I think I read somewhere here that with fat, as long as there are insignificant amounts of carbs with it, cannot be stored without carbs, so any dietary fat that your body does not use for fuel is 'dumped' . The fat you eat satisfies your appetite more quickly than carbs, so you don't eat as much, your body uses what you ate for fuel, dumps what it doesn't need, and you've still taken in fewer calories than if you were eating LF/HC. Does that make sense?? You may be eating, say, 2000 cals per day, but if 60% of that is fat (1200 cals) and you're body is using only part of those fat cals and dumping the rest, whatever is dumped could be subtracted from your calorie intake for the day. A much lower number of calories would be actually recognized by your body than the 2000 you ate. I don't know if this makes sense, but that's the reasoning I've gathered.

I may have confused you more (if so, sorry!). It's the middle of the night....my excuse.
Nicole

Maybe the information here will help:
http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthre...6145#post296145

Cheers.

Rosebud