Hi Joe,

Maybe we'll see a few more addicts "come out" with this!

Not all carbs are bad. We need a certain amount of vegetable matter to keep our bodies functioning. I think the amount of carbs requires depends entirely on the individuals physical needs.

Other carbs are completely devoid of nutritional value. They are white and powdery. Think about other substances, made from plants that are refined into white powder. Some are beneficial, but there is cocaine and heroin in there too.

The carbs that are bad, are the ones that you have become dependent upon. If you've ever used carbs to comfort yourself or control your energy level, you're probably an addict. You have learned to become dependant on them to make you feel better. While the addiction is developing, you don't even realize it. You don't have to gain weight or be fat. There are many thin people addicted to chocolate.

As far as long term goes, I'm looking to my ancestors. We survived pretty well on meat and seasonal vegetables and fruit for a long time before we settled down and started farming. Actually, the farming was OK. It was the refining that was bad.

What's the choice? Tried low fat, tried vegan. Didn't lose any weight, craved sweets all the time, tired, foggy, pre-arthritic, knees hurt, cholesterol level and blood pressure high, skin was a mess. I would rather feel alive and radiant for a few years before my kidneys fall out than weigh 300 pounds at 50 (because that is where I was heading) and die at 51 from a heart attack.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

To Fiona and Karen.......

Read.......understood..........and AGREE

I hope they never, ever, find that my addiction to eggs, salad, beef, chicken, and lamb is detrimental to my health.

The key to living in all aspects is..... MODERATION.

Regards
Joe

I've been following this thread with much interest (and yes, it was me that moved it ... I confess that I missed it altogether when first posted .. .. got "buried" in the list of new threads). Much of what I've wanted to say has already been said. But, I would like to share some thoughts with you all.

On the subject of why people abandon lowcarbing ... as has been stated, unpalatability and lack of motivation/desire are the main reasons. Unpalatability is purely in the mind of the beholder -- if a person believes they are deprived for not having bread and potatoes, then it just becomes their own internal negative reinforcement; a self-fulfilling prophecy in a way. I honestly believe it's more difficult to overcome the wall of resistance from WITHIN than from outside. Not to say that external factors -- doctors, family, peers, the media -- aren't difficult to overcome. But the day we are able to say out loud to ourselves ".. lowcarbing is right and good for me, and this is how I will eat and think for the rest of my days" .. well, the protests and arguments from others just becomes yada-yada.

The idea of addiction of course takes this a step further, because true addiction implies PHYSICAL as well as mental dependence. And indeed, the physical "rush" experienced by ingesting a substance to which one is addicted can be objectively measured ... increased heart rate, flushing, salivation ... resulting from the cascade of hormones and neurochemicals ... including insulin, cortisol, serotonin, dopamine .. the list goes on ..

As for physical/health reasons why a person would be compelled to quit a lowcarb/high protein diet ... I can't think of ANY. If you check Wa'il's Studies pages (on the red menu bar) there are no studies to PROVE ill effect from lowcarbing. NONE. Trust me, if there was such a study, he would have published it there. Of course, there are plenty of pseudo-scientific commentary on the harmful effects of high-protein diets, but these consistently lack supporting evidence or reference. As an aside, I've also made note of the fact that these negative comments are made against excessive protein consumption, and not lowcarbohydrate per se. Also, the anti-FAT studies are based on the consumption of fats in combination with high carbohydrate intake. Studies done on diets that are very high saturated (ie animal-source) fat, and extremely low in carbohydrate, such as some aboriginal peoples around the world ... consistently show the ABSENCE of ill health.

As a nurse, I can imagine some situations where a person might have to restrict protein intake ... such as if they develop severe kidney disease due to infection, or a traumatic shock-state (eg. an accident where a great deal of blood volume has been lost), or alcoholism. However, that does not preclude lowCARB, since the caloric defecit can be made up with fats. Infants and children are able to THRIVE and develop normally following highFAT, moderate protein, carb-restricted ketogenic diets used for treating epilepsy that won't respond to the standard drug therapies.

I realise I'm just repeating what the others have said, but my observation has been that people who follow a lowcarb WOL for health reasons, and not just vanity reasons (that sounds bad, but it's the only word I could think of .. ) will experience benefits that go far beyond the fit of one's clothes, and the number on the scale. And those benefits will be what keeps us firmly on the path to our goal, even if we stray a little now and then.

Life's like that.

Doreen

Thank you Doreen for your excellent input to this thread.

With all you MENTORS behind me reinforcing the LC WOE, I am going to make every effort to lose the required additional 20/30 lbs. by Oct./Nov. this year and see if this results in my elimating the medications that I have been taking which has been resulting in my lethargic feeling ever since I started the medications nearly two years ago.

Good health is my main reason for persuing this WOL.

I gave up on worrying about appearances years ago, and at this stage in life I would consider 'better' appearance as a perk, in addition to good health.

Regards
Joe

Yep! It's not all about what you put into your mouth. Some of it's about what you put into your mind!

Joe, yours would be an amazing success story if you could stop taking your medication. What an inspiration it would be!

I'm thinking saint-hood?

Karen

Wow,
For everyone that posted here, I must say that I have never been so deep in thought after reading all of your inputs!

With support like this I'm positive that we can kick the addictions and be reborn to this WOL.

I do agree that it should be referred to as an addiction because people have learned to "Sugar Coat"(lol) their problems. Never really looking into what the contents are of those problems, whatever they may be.

I know that addicts don't often see that they are so, but once they have an eye opening experience, even if it's a bad one such as an accident or the death of another addict, I hope they see how bad their situation truly is.

So if calling a high carb eating habit an "Addiction" helps some people to see that it is more serious than some may say....
....I Say..."Hi my name is Lisa, and was addicted to carbs. I have now been carb sober for three months!" ( only taking in the necessary amounts)

I just got the news today that my father, 55, just had a small stroke on Saturday. This, a year after he suffered a bad angina attack. He put on 20 lbs since last years episode, now Doc is telling him to lose weight.
I am scared for him.... I'm only 25 and don't want to lose him.
If you get any news that the medications won't interfere or this WOL will eventually cancel the need for those medications, please keep me informed.

Regards
Lisa

Hi Lisa,

So sorry to hear about your father. Experiencing this is scary. It makes you feel all that more vulnerable and mortal.

I have no medical advice, but certainly this WOE wouldn't cause any harm. It could be very valuable to do just from the feeling great perspective.

Karen

Lisa, I'm sorry too about your Dad ... I've been in the same place as you ... it's a worry, that's for sure.

Atkins, Protein Power, Carb Addicts and all their related sequels are FULL of stories about how people have prevented and REVERSED these disease conditions ... reduced or eliminated the need for medications, even insulin for some diabetics! Check out Wa'il's Studies pages, on the red menu bar at the top. As well, there are many testimonials in the posts right here on this message board from real people who have improved their health with lowcarbing. On the forum Home page, scroll down to the Health and Support category, you'll find lots of encouraging evidence how lowcarbing has proven beneficial for many disease conditions.

I hope things work out well for your dad ... At this stage I'm sure he's feeling rather overwhelmed and confused himself, and following doctors orders and medications etc .. If he's not already aware of lowcarbing, perhaps a gentle suggestion for him to read some of the lowcarb books, or if he has internet access, maybe he would have the chance to come and read some of the information on this site. It's best for him to read and learn for himself, ask questions etc ....

All the best

Doreen

To Joe

I kinda got side-tracked yesterday in my carb RANT ...

One point I wanted to discuss, is your desire to get off the medications ... in my mind also, I would see that as a sign not just of improved health, but as a REVERSAL of the nasty processes that have been wreaking havoc inside your body.

It CAN be done, it HAS been done ... as I mentioned in my previous post to Lisa. But there's one testimonial that's a little closer to home for me, and I think would be very meaningful and encouraging for you as well. That is my brother's story. He's told it very well in a letter, sent to WebMD .... one of the great bastions of lowFAT high starch diets .... They have never responded to him.

His letter is posted in the Health support area of this message board, under Heart Disease and Cholesterol ... or, you can click here to read it. He continues to do well, and is off all medication except for an arthritic knee, which has plagued him all his life (since a high school football mishap).

I hope this provides some inspiration for you.

Doreen

To Doreen and Karen

I don't know what magic power you guys have but I finally broke the stall this morning and lost 3lbs.

My weight is 184.5 heading for 170 I hope.

I have been reading Protein Power the last two days and find that the writers are lot more down-to- earth in their touting of LC WOE, than Atkins. I think I might switch from CAD to PP. What do you think?

Once a person breaks the stall does anybody know what the next plateau will be?

That reminds me I will have to change my weight 'profile' with a great deal of pleasure.

Regards
Joe

What great news Joe!

If you send Doreen a return plane ticket to Vancouver, she'lll tell you when your next plateau will be!

I think PP is great. It was the first book I read on the subject. I followed it almost to the letter for the first 5-6 months. I went very easy on fruit and high fat dairy products. I didn't use any substitutes except for AS in my coffee, which I eventually gave up using anyway.

Then I started reading about whipping cream, high fat cheeses, "legal" treats and SF Jell-o with the Atkins plan. And I started eating them. I'm not blaming the Atkins plan at all. My eventual plateau would have occurred no matter what because I simply wasn't ready to lose any more weight at the time. My body and brain had to get the weight loss thing sorted out. I needed to sit back, watch and evaluate.

I've read the Zone, PP, PP Life Plan and Atkins, Atkins Age Defying Diet. I have to read CAD next. I've been a bit scared to because I've been training myself not to look at food as a reward, and the idea of a reward meal is to tempting. Jewellery is much better! I know there is valuable information contained in it, just like in the other books.

There is no harm in trying. It may start you on a solid downward trend.

I have two things to say about stalls and plateaus. A rest is better than a change, or a change is better than a rest!

Congrats again Joe!

Karen

Why would someone give up the Low Carb way of life? Well, for some people the temporary pleasure they get from high carb items and sugar out weighs the long-term pleasure that they get from have good spirits and high energy all the time. A few weeks ago, I went on a mini-vacation to my mother's house. I know that it's always tough going there because just being back in the home where I was raised makes me want the things that I used to eat. Actually, the day that I left for there, I decided to have the last of the Raison Bran cereal to get it out of the house. I figured the fiber would do me some good, and since I was only 10 or 15 pounds away from my goal I thought it wouldn't hurt me. Around 10 a.m. a started dragging. By 11:00 a.m. I was actually depressed and sad like I used to be. My husband said "What's wrong?" and I said "I don't know." We used to have this conversation a lot before I started low carb eating almost a year ago, I was always feeling that way. Then I figured out, it's the carbs! I went to my mother's house and had all my meals except two on target. From those two meals that I ate out, I gained weight. When I got back home the scale said 9 pounds! Well if that isn't depressing. So back on induction since Sunday and today I'm back where I was within a pound or so.

As to your health concerns, primitive man did not have refined flour and sugar. Cavemen barely had grains, especially in the ice ages when the growing times were so short. Human being lived on meat by hunting and with some gathering in season. They spent winters eating mostly meat. Eskimos (still living the lifestyle of their ancestors) today spent most of their winter eating Caribu meat, and have a diet high in fat, low in carbohydrates and no diabetes, no heart problems, and no overweight.

If you are concerned about your medications then call the Atkin's center for a phone appointment. Perhaps they can even refer you to someone in your area.

Refined flour and sugar put money in someone else's pockets. Meat, fish, poultry and vegetables are what the human animal is supposed to eat (and helps our farmers who can't sell meat and eggs above fair market value). I could quote more but if you've read the book why bother? I reread the book at intervals to help me keep going and have joined two on-line groups to keep me from being lonely.

Elihnig

Ditto Elihnig, I love the caveman and Eskimo argument

Wa'il

All joking aside Wa'il, I live in a remote community up North in Manitoba. It is not quite in the NWT, or Nunavit, but close enough. It is a reservation and my husband is a First Nation Canadian of Dene Origin.

The people here still live a very traditional lifestyle. As we speak my brothers in law are out on the boat checking fishing nets to bring the catch to my mother in law and some other women who are working on cutting, preparing and smoking the fish. In the winter months the diet is primarily caribou meat. My husband hunts for his family of 10 brothers and sisters and parents plus their children and probably brings in about 20 caribou a year himself during the season from Novemeber to April.

At my mother in law's house, on any given day you could go inside and find some kind of meat or fish being dried, smoked, boiled or baked in (or outside of) her house. There certainly was no availability of grains, and sugar and flour were luxury items picked up on twice yearly supply trips until the store was built about 15 years ago. Low Carb eating is a matter of nature here.

I can tell you that you see very few overweight people in this community, and what there is of that, is likely recently acquired due to the influences of the fast food and overprocessed food that has become available in the past 15 years with the advancement of the store here. (Northern Store by the way, chain of North West Company). My husband works there, and there are not a lot of healthy food options!

Just a personal note, my husband weighed about 180 lbs when I met him 3 years ago. He had maintained that weight for most of his adult life, standard size 34 pants which were a little baggy on him. He worked hard cutting and hauling wood for heating his house during the long winters and even hauling water for drinking and doing laundry and cleaning as we only got a water system here last year. He ate a diet of primarily meat.

When he started living with me, his diet changed dramatically as I was in carbo-heaven at the time, and he loved every new thing he tried. His weight went up to as high as 225 just about when I started low carbing in April of this year. I'm sure part of that was food, and some had to do with the fact that he now lived in a house with a furnace (teacher accomodations are a little more advanced) and didn't have to do as much physical hard work just to survive day to day. With no real effort on his own, just the fact that I stopped cooking potatoes and rice and buying bread etc... he has dropped 25 lbs and is down one pants size. He still has some bread and eats far more carbohydrates than I do, but I think the "push" he got into what is probably a more natural state of eating for him and his culture and probably genetics is showing a substantial difference without much effort.

For these anecdotal reasons, I really believe that the way we were meant to eat, is far different from how I have been eating, and although I am not calling my people here "cavemen", I certainly think they are a lot closer to a "natural" diet than any diet I was raised on.

Whatever the case, seems to be working for Ed! Just my 2 cents.

Mari

Doreen, that's a fantastic way of describing a plateau. I must make a mental note of that!

Mari, I love your story! Is any kind of seaweed part of the Dene's traditional diet?

Karen