~SilverEm -- if only we could acquire the metabolisms of people who were never obese, right?

I'm not familiar with the abbreviations you used when you described what you're eating, could you help me out with them?

I wish I could get away with 30 grams of carbs per day! If I eat too many I end up in a never ending low carb flu state, I'm not quite sure where the danger zone is for me though.

I don't weigh food but I do portion control everything since I cook it in advance and freeze it, so at least I have that part down!

That's interesting, perhaps replacing my smoothies with fat bombs will help since it'll be lower volume? I guess I'll find out soon since the smoothie era has ended, at least for now.

Thank you!

~Susky2 -- I'd rather not ditch the clams, I really need the iron and they're cheaper than beef. I'm really confused, do you mean making clam chowder with just chicken broth? And how could chicken broth possibly have more fat than whipping cream?

I have two meals with soy sauce based marinades, and the other marinades are different combinations of olive oil, coconut oil, and lemon juice. I've been buying the Green Giant bags of frozen vegetables, I have broccoli for one recipe, California mix for two recipes, Japanese mix for two recipes, and Italian blend for the last two.

I should've mentioned that, my metabolism is completely shot. You know how they say to calculate your basal metabolic rate and add a percentage to it based on how active you are to figure out how many calories you need per day? Well, my BMR is all I can eat without gaining weight. I have accidentally eaten too little in the past though and I know how I react to it, that's definitely not the problem right now.

I actually had a steak and a salad instead of my eggs and cheese yesterday and was absolutely ravenous when I finished it. I don't know if it's the veggies or protein causing issues but at this point I'm more inclined to think I'm eating too much of something than too little, you know? I mean no matter how much I eat, I'm still hungry.

I don't understand about the fourth point, I'm not going 5 hours between meals at any point when I'm awake? Only about 3 1/2, 4 at the most? I would like to ditch the bedtime snack if I can but I can't sleep if I'm hungry.

I try not to drink water by itself, otherwise I'll be running to the bathroom every half hour and my fatigue is so severe that I simply can't handle that without getting sick. I always have water or smoothies with my meals though.

All of the foods I'm eating seem to be very low fat and calorie though? Not to mention my fat bombs and smoothies have virtually identical ingredients, at least portion control is way easier with fat bombs and I can make them in advance!

When you say dial back to the basics do you mean go back to how I was eating before? I'm not really sure what else I could do to change things here?

That's my whole problem, I *am* eating more and more stuff on the 'safe' list of foods and I'm still starving . . . and the more I eat, the hungrier I feel, and the more weight I gain. I'm just trying to figure out why.

The abbreviations SilverEm used were PRO for protein, CHO for carbohydrates and FAT for fat
and yes, it would be nice to have the metabolism of a non-obese person, like my 14-year-old normal-weight self before I started dieting (in retrospect, I was aiming for 115 lbs when I should have just stayed the course at 130-140, which I now know is normal for my height and lean body mass).

Ah, thank you deidra! This is a wee bit embarrassing, I'm seriously wrecked after going out yesterday but I still should've been able to work that out for myself . . .

Oops, didn't see the addition to your post! I used to be super skinny when I was kid but then I randomly blew up like a balloon when I hit my teens, I wish I knew what went wrong.

Hi, TyleRoad. Also, "g" is for grams, and "d" is for day.

I use the following for keeping track of how much of what I eat:

1 ounce meat/fish = 6 grams of PRO (protein)
1 ounce cooked greens = 1 g. (gram) of CHO (carbohydrate)

"Ballpark" rule for fat: one ounce (2 Tablespoons) for each ounce of meat. If the meat has a lot of fat in it, I use less butter.

By weighing the meat, I keep my protein amounts constant. I use cooked weight, not raw. If I don't weigh, I find that I guess too low on the protein amounts, just by looking at the fish, poultry, veal, etc.

For fats I use a spoon, unless I am testing something new, to see if I react to it. For tests, I weigh.

I also find grass-fed beef, veal, butter, and cream absolutely vital. For me, the commercial, hormone-injected, grain-and-by-product-fed, antibiotic-injected meats greatly disrupt digestion, weight control, and well-being.

Best wishes to you.

My point was that clams are relatively high in carb content. If you like them, fine, but realize that they could contribute to carb creep and affect your progress. And I'm confused about your broth question. My suggestion was for you to use broth and cream instead of unsweetened coconut milk, also to help mitigate the carb creep.



I have no idea what you're talking about. But see my response below.



What I'm saying is that you seem to be spinning in circles and over complicating this whole thing. I understand how that can be frustrating, and like so many things in life, it might be helpful to return to the basics. Count your carbs - and be honest about it - and at least at first, let the fat and protein levels take care of themselves. Eat until you are satisfied. If you are still hungry, eat more of the right things. Eventually your body will adjust and you can then start fine tuning with the optimal nutrient levels for you.

~SilverEm -- thanks for your ballpark rule! Next time I cook I'll try it out, if I know there's enough fat in the marinades I can skip the fat bombs with my suppers.

I wonder if I technically do weigh the meat since my formula for each meal is 3 lbs of meat and 3 bags frozen veggies split 8 ways? How much does the weight change when you cook it would you say? I won't be cooking for another month and knowing me I'll probably forget to check by then!

I can't afford to spring for the good stuff unfortunately, I'm stretched to the breaking point as it is. Although I did get free range chicken thighs on sale, I can't say I noticed any difference except in the taste though. (Which was much more delicious!)

Thanks, same to you!

~Susky2 -- I don't mean to be rude but my post clearly states that my clam chowder already has a cream and chicken broth base? Only my smoothies used coconut milk and I've replaced them with fat bombs. I will swap the cream with coconut milk eventually to see if it's causing my bloating though. I looked up clams again but they don't seem that high carb to me? I really need the vitamins in them though.

You told me that you didn't think I was eating enough, and I was trying to explain that my calorie requirements are super low because I thought you meant that I wasn't eating enough calories? What did you mean?

We're really having trouble getting on the same wavelength aren't we? I *have* been very careful to eat as few carbs as possible, but I can't eat until I'm satisfied like you suggested because I'm never satisfied, at least after supper, and I'm trying to sort out why.

Hi Tyle. You've already gotten a lot of good responses, but I just wanted to throw out a few more ideas.

First, can I ask your age? Now that I'm in my 40s, there's just no way I'm ever going to be 130 lbs again. A good ketogenic diet should take an obese person to a healthy weight, but it will not take you from healthy/curvy to svelte. That takes starvation, unfortunately. And it seems nothing will trump hormones. I'm surrendering to peri-menopause. I refuse to starve anymore. I'm curvy now and that's fine.

You mentioned that you have a bigger abdomen - aside from the fact that that's a normal part of aging, have you eliminated common allergens, mainly gluten? You have to read labels really carefully - I've noticed Canadian processed meats have a lot of wheat flour unless they're labelled gluten-free. It sounds like you're not eating them, but beware of restaurant meats. I work at Tim Hortons and even our "supposedly super-nice carved turkey" contains wheat. You also have to watch condiments - soy sauce is a big one.

Are you comfortable sharing where you live? You don't have to, but I'm curious because I get chicken way cheaper than that. Last week, chicken leg quarters were on sale at FreshCo for $1.00/lb, and I'm about to go to No Frills for ground chicken tubes for $1.00. These stores happen to be walking distance from me.

Probably a dumb question, but have you had your CFS evaluated? Mine turned out to be chronic EBV (the virus that causes mononucleosis) and I beat it with an immune system war. I took echinacea, ate a ton of raw garlic, and if I was doing it today, I'd add coconut oil. Lots of things I'm forgetting here because it was 1996 or so.

A thought on dairy - I think I'd do better without it, because I always seem to lose "poof weight" when I ditch it, but I don't want to do it long-term. Dairy is what makes most of my LC foods tolerable. But there is a lot of evidence that dairy is insulinogenic independent of its carb count.

Best of luck; keep us posted.

Hi, TyleRoad. I have found that all meat cooks down differently. I just weigh my portions after the meat/fish/poultry is cooked.

I agree with Kristine about aging and hormones, and also the dairy. Adding that to having a metabolism that requires little food means being careful where others have more leeway.

It is possible that a minute amount of something in a food can trigger appetite. Naturally occurring substances and also man-made, added substances.

I am sending you good thoughts.

Stick with fish, poultry, meat, offal if you like it, eggs, raw and cooked and marinated and pickled and fermented low-carb vegetables/salads, healthy oils and fats. You needn't gorge yourself on the oils and fats. Just a tablespoonful or two, or enough to satiate, for cooking or seasoning foods.

When you hear meat, eggs, fish, fruit*, vegetables it sounds strict and boring. But no. There are many delicious choices and combinations.

Dump the smoothies, chocolate, nuts, dairy for now, till things get on track. Then you can re-introduce them one at a time and see what works for you in what quantity or frequency and what doesn't.

Don't forget your potassium, sodium, magnesium supplementation. I use Morton Lite Salt and take magnesium citrate softgels or capsules or powder. They absorb the best.

Drink plenty of water throughout the day. Filtered or spring is best. This not only keeps everything in working order but also cuts hunger.

Keep avocados, boiled eggs, and canned fatty fish on hand for snacks or meals. Mash the fish with mayo if you like. These are good hunger cutters.

I know this seems counter-intuitive, but I find it to be exactly the opposite: Try not tracking, counting, weighing or measuring. Just practice eating when you're hungry and stopping when you're full.

If you need more structure, try eating within an 8-hour window each day. Have your first meal around 11 a.m.-12 noon and finish your last meal around 7-8
p.m. This gives your body a chance to rest and do its digestion and fat-burning thing.

Here's hoping you find your sweet spot, no pun intended. Feel better!

*Lower carb "fruit" include olives, avocados, cucumbers, tomatoes, and occasional berries/melon if you enjoy them.

Ding! Exactly. So often I see people overthinking this WOE, and the simplicity is one the things I think makes it so beautiful.

Me too, Susky! I'm into simplicity, and that's why this WOE works so well for me.

You are correct...sorry, my mistake.

[qoute]I looked up clams again but they don't seem that high carb to me?[/quote]

They're not terrible, but they are higher in carb content than other seafood. Not to the point when you consider them high carb, but they could introduce carb creep, and your overall count might be higher than you expect.




I'll try to be as succinct as possible. If you are still hungry, you aren't eating enough. Stop worrying about calorie requirements and metabolism and all that...at least for now. Eat from the right list of foods, avoid the stuff that contributes to the carb count, and work from there. Again, listen to your body and eat until you are satisfied. If you limit your intake based on some outside reference and you are miserable, you are setting yourself up for failure.

I hope you get everything figured out.

Yep! One of the things that impressed me when I ready Dr. Atkins' book was that he stressed counting carbs ONLY, saying that eventually everything else will take care of itself. Of course, once you get on track with the WOE, you can certainly make tweaks based on your own situation...but basically doing the carb count is all you initially need to worry about.

~Kristine -- I'm 31. That's fair enough, but last year I was 132 lbs and was doing fine. Then I cut added sugars out of my diet and the raging hunger that followed made me pile on almost 20 lbs. I hate that eating healthier made me gain weight and I'd like to lose it, but at this point I'll settle for getting my hunger under control!

I've been eating gluten free for a long time, I just eat whole foods and dairy. I am wondering about the cream though, if dropping it doesn't help with the bloating I'll try the low FODMAP diet. I adore broccoli and eat it every day but I've read that it's one of the foods that can cause bloating. I'm basically a shut in so restaurant foods aren't an issue, when I do go out I always get either a salad or a steak with a salad on the side.

I live in British Columbia, in the Cariboo region (the area that caught on fire and was evacuated last year if it made the news in Ontario?) but I'm not quite comfortable sharing the town. I've never even heard of either of those stores!

We've done a ridiculous amount of tests trying to figure out what's wrong with me but we never find anything. (That can be treated at least.) Not sure if I've ever been tested for EBV though, that's diagnosed with a blood test right? I'll have to bring that up.

I'm right there with you -- I don't know if I could handle a ketogenic diet without dairy products! Still, it seems wise to temporarily eliminate cream and see how my belly reacts, it'll give me some peace of mind if it makes no difference.

Thank you, will do!

~SilverEm -- fair enough! I'll try to remember to weigh it next time I cook.

Yeah, with my metabolism mealtimes really are like walking through a minefield, one step wrong and BOOM!

That has to be what it is, something about my suppers is setting me off. The more I think about it the more I suspect it's the vegetables. I've tried multiple times to make salads one of my meals but they made me so hungry that I gave up. But it seems insane to stop eating vegetables!

Thank you! I really could use some.

~barb712 -- honestly I'm fine with what I'm eating, my problem is controlling my hunger! I don't miss carbs aside from fruit, and I'm eating enough carbs that I don't dare try to sneak more in.

I just ditched the smoothies and chocolate and replaced them with fat bombs two days ago actually. Since I cook in bulk I still have quite a few cream based clam chowders in the freezer but I do plan to replace the cream with coconut milk to see if it makes a difference with the bloating.

I've been drowning my suppers and eggs with half-salt I think it's called, it has added potassium, and I imagine my multi-vitamin has magnesium in it, I'll double check.

I already have all of those things on hand for snacks actually! I have a bunch of frozen avocados that never made it into smoothies, I'm going to make a tuna salad by blending the thawed avocados with tuna and put it in celery sticks.

I'm already eating when I'm hungry though? I have zero tolerance for hunger, if I'm hungry I will eat. The problem is that I'm not satisfied by anything I eat after supper, and that's making me eat way more than I should and pile on the weight.

If I could figure out why supper makes me so hungry I'd be eating within that 8 hour window actually! I used to do that before my hunger got out of control.

Thank you!

~Susky2 -- I'll be succinct too. As I said before, how can I eat until I'm satisfied when I'm not satisfied by anything I eat after supper?

Hi, TyleRoad. Trying the FODMAPs approach sounds good to me, to try out. If you don't find enough information, the papers with Peter Gibson in the list of authors, at PubMed, are good.

The FailSafe elimination diet has helped me. (That's a link to a good blog of info on it.) I get reactions to lots of things.

I, too, avoid cruciferous vegetables most of the time.

Many find dairy to be an appetite trigger. I make my own yoghurt, which helps. And butter is less of a trigger than cream, for me.

Both lactose and casein can be problems. Pasteurization and homogenization also problems. Also, breed of cow can make a difference. Some eat only clarified, organic, grass-fed butter, and others eat no dairy of any kind.

There are so many things which cause reactions, and layers upon layers and interactions. I wish you success with your food tests, to find answers which really help.

Has anyone listed caffeine? Caffeine can stimulate too much insulin production, as well as raise blood sugar. Dr. Michael Eades wrote, at his blog, that when he is in weight-loss mode, he really cuts back on the coffee.

There are also many non-food causes of endocrine disruption. Fragrances and certain types of electricity are well documented as causing mild to severe health problems.

Am sending you good thoughts.