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  #1   ^
Old Wed, Apr-25-18, 14:47
bluesinger's Avatar
bluesinger bluesinger is offline
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Default Alternative AD (Alzheimer's Disease) Treatment

I've just been accepted into an AD Study to test a new AD drug. Quite literally, I HATE drugs and avoid them. I've not been diagnosed AD, but have passed their first testing range for acceptance. My first visit to the clinic was last week, and will be followed by an additional 3 months of various tests before the actual Study begins. The Study lasts 5 years. If I make it into the actual study, this means that I have AD, so will be needing the drug. Or something else.

So I went searching for "Something Else" and found the work of Dr. Dale Bredesen, PHD That link is to his $$ website and will offer information. I first watched him in a speech (very medical) but it let me in on what I was able to understand. His book "The End of Alzheimer's" is already in my library.

There are few treatment practitioners of the Bredesen Protocol (ReCode) and many of the blood tests are not those we normally have done. Further, medical insurance doesn't cover any of the treatment as far as I'm aware.

I'm posting here because some of his Protocol encompasses the way we eat:
Ketoflex 12/3. On a personal note, as The Study progresses, I will be learning more about how this whole thing works at the Cleveland Clinic, but on the side, I will continue following the alternative results.

I am open to opinions, not on my choice of treatment, but on whether it's possible that this eminent physician is selling snake oil to desperate people.
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  #2   ^
Old Wed, Apr-25-18, 15:29
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cotonpal cotonpal is online now
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Plan: very low carb real food
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Glenda - I have read Dr Bredesen's book. I do not believe he is selling snake oil. It appears as if his methods have got results for people. Is every detail of his protocol correct? Probably not but neither has he made things up out of thin air plus he has tried things out on real people using methods that can be replicated by others (assuming that they can get funded). I tend more to believe that a pharmaceutical solution is the equivalent of snake oil. The more I read about alzheimers the more I have come to understand it as a lifestyle disease which is probably best treated through a variety of lifestyle measures such as what Dr Bredesen promotes. Maybe I put too much trust in diet and exercise but then again I don't believe I am harming myself even if I am wrong. I hope this all works out well for you. At the very least it should be interesting.
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  #3   ^
Old Wed, Apr-25-18, 16:16
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bluesinger bluesinger is offline
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Jean, thanks for the "vote." I'm learning so much already, and my original objective was to help others when I submitted my DNA to Gene Match. I honestly had no clue that I was at risk, and the Bredesen Protocol is pretty much the way I eat and live. One would think I would never have made it into this Study.

I've been tested twice, but still won't be told whether I have apoE4, so I got a kit from 23andme and sent my sample off yesterday so I'd know my gene status.

There's a website (apoe4.info) where people come together to discuss their challenges. Many are following ReCode, even though they are doing it alone, just as some of us practiced IF without Dr. Fung. Of course, IF is simply not eating, and the Bredesen Protocol is quite complex. Patching "36 holes" in the roof has to be.

Still searching, but still sticking to my WOE.
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  #4   ^
Old Wed, Apr-25-18, 17:52
M Levac M Levac is offline
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There's the theory of insulin for Alzheimer's. Insulin is degraded by the insulin-degrading enzyme. Two organs have this enzyme, the liver and the brain. When there's excess insulin, from a high-carb diet for example, the liver can't keep up, the brain takes over. The enzyme also degrades amyloid, which is a potential culprit in Alzheimer's, it accumulates. The enzyme preferentially degrades insulin. So, the idea is that when there's excess insulin, (in the brain) the enzyme is too busy with that, it doesn't degrade amyloid (or less than it normally should), amyloid accumulates.

About the Ketoflex 12/3 diet. I did a quick search on Pubmed and duckduck, found nothing solid about it (compared to the Atkins diet for example, which has several solid experiment papers, like the A-TO-Z experiment by Chris Gardner). The bulk comes directly from the inventor, the rest comes from believers. In short, Ketoflex 12/3 is designed with the belief that it will work as is, without actually having been tested extensively beforehand. That's pretty much the same for almost all other diets on the planet. The point here is that if it looks like low-carb, it's because it is, but then there's several other low-carb diets (which we discuss daily on this and other forums) that have been tested extensively, which should likely serve at least as well as an untested diet.

It's the fiber thing. I see no basis to advise to eat fiber for any reason whatsoever, it's indigestible, it provides zero nutrition, and some forms of fiber bind to nutrients thereby making them unavalable to us. Atkins for example doesn't advise to eat fiber, it advises to eat non-starchy veggies. We could interpret this to mean it advises to eat fiber, but the advice is actually to avoid starchy veggies, because Atkins is a low-carb diet, not a high-fiber diet, see?

OK, go here ( https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov ) that's PubMed a repository for all published scientific papers, search "alzheimer's ketogenic" without the quotes, start reading.

Well, it looks like he's really trying to help people, but it also looks like he's really trying to distinguish himself from the mob by positing a bunch of untested theories, especially about specific mechanisms and such. To me, this means his patients will serve as guinney pigs. So, whatever his method you wanna try, search beyond his website and papers to see if it's been done before by others and with success. I mean, if something truly works and has been tested extensively in several experiments with published papers and such, the underlying mechanisms don't need to be emphasized so much. All you'd need to say is "do this, it works, and by the way here are all the scientific papers published on it".
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  #5   ^
Old Wed, Apr-25-18, 19:44
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Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is online now
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My 2 cents.

First Bluesinger, I wish you well in the endeavor. I probably ffear this more than cancer, or diabetes.

in my efforts to find information and to learn, in hopes of preventing this slow death, some writer link it to diet. Meaning LC is likely to be preventative.

Which is logical to me. THe rapid increase in the disease seems to follow the curve for obesity and heart attacks. JMHO

Like you I tend to seek non-drug options first. These days I reach to food as the first line of action.
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  #6   ^
Old Wed, Apr-25-18, 20:10
M Levac M Levac is offline
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I just watched this and it took me quite a few minutes to realize there's a bit about Alzheimer's in the movie. But the bit that struck me hardest is when the elders said before the eras of chronic diseases and infectious diseases, people mostly died of old age.

http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=478993
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  #7   ^
Old Thu, Apr-26-18, 06:03
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teaser teaser is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cotonpal
Glenda - I have read Dr Bredesen's book. I do not believe he is selling snake oil. It appears as if his methods have got results for people. Is every detail of his protocol correct? Probably not but neither has he made things up out of thin air plus he has tried things out on real people using methods that can be replicated by others (assuming that they can get funded).


I just watched the video. He mentions not getting a study approved because his proposal changed too many variables, so nobody could be certain just what worked. Somehow this doesn't keep people from doing Mediterranean diet intervention studies. I think it's an apt criticism, but not a reason to not do a study. Same problem with Dr. Terry Wahls--even if her diet worked for every MS patient it was tried on, you could still say, well okay, but maybe it's just the ketogenic nature of the diet, maybe it's the polyphenols, etc. Same thing with Paleo in general. Is it what's left in, what's left out, the macronutrient or micronutrient profile? Change a bunch of stuff, and you might not know the details that make the approach successful, but you can find out whether the protocol as a whole has a predictable effect. So I'll criticize paleo when it comes to brass tacks of why it works sometimes, but still see merit in saying "this group did this and got this result, so that's what I'm going to do and hope for the same." Inuit or Kitivan, choose one, don't make sweet potato french fries with seal oil and assume that's okay.


The blogger who gives some details of the protocol, I find it a little funny that in supplements he includes amylase to help with resistant starch, a supplement to help you digest starch that you're hoping not to digest...
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  #8   ^
Old Thu, Apr-26-18, 06:58
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GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
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Glenda - best wishes and my thoughts go out to you as you begin this phase of your journey. While there have been more information sources addressing AD with lifestyle approaches (Amy Berger's book is another), it will be interesting to hear your experiences as you go forward.
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  #9   ^
Old Thu, Apr-26-18, 07:37
bluesinger's Avatar
bluesinger bluesinger is offline
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Drs. Sherzai have developed an Alzheimer's Prevention Program at Cedars-Sinai Medical Center in Los Angeles.
Quote:
Unique to the Cedars-Sinai program, according to Sherzai, are interventions that will focus on a variety of disease pathways. Most other treatment programs have focused exclusively on the amyloid pathway, but the Cedars-Sinai program is targeting other pathways as well, such as inflammation and metabolic processes. According to Sherzai, studies on inflammation and metabolic processes have so far failed when applied to AD patients, but there has been significant response to both of these pathways in animal models, including in studies conducted in Cedars-Sinai's own labs. The failures in human studies, he believes, are largely a result of interventions applied too late, a problem he hopes to address by focusing on patients who are in the predisease or MCI stage.
The Sherzais also have a book available on Amazon. A link to their website. They are a handsome couple and seem to be media darlings. That almost makes me want to ignore them, but at least they are getting some traction with lifestyle treatment of AD.

The way their lifestyle differs from Bredesen is the carbs.

Last edited by bluesinger : Thu, Apr-26-18 at 07:56.
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  #10   ^
Old Thu, Apr-26-18, 11:11
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WereBear WereBear is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M Levac
Well, it looks like he's really trying to help people, but it also looks like he's really trying to distinguish himself from the mob by positing a bunch of untested theories, especially about specific mechanisms and such. To me, this means his patients will serve as guinney pigs. So, whatever his method you wanna try, search beyond his website and papers to see if it's been done before by others and with success. I mean, if something truly works and has been tested extensively in several experiments with published papers and such, the underlying mechanisms don't need to be emphasized so much. All you'd need to say is "do this, it works, and by the way here are all the scientific papers published on it".


Reminds me of the way a pharmaceutical company will take a natural body substance and tweak it so they can patent it and charge a lot more. As in the case of Progestin/progesterone, the natural substance can be very healing... and the tweaked one, dangerous.
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  #11   ^
Old Thu, Apr-26-18, 16:20
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Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M Levac
I just watched this and it took me quite a few minutes to realize there's a bit about Alzheimer's in the movie. But the bit that struck me hardest is when the elders said before the eras of chronic diseases and infectious diseases, people mostly died of old age.

http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=478993



I plan to watchi this later this weekend.

Over the last 5-10 years I have been trying to understand our modern food and came to the above conclusion long ago.

Just had to dodge diseases, and injuries.

My grandfather lived into his nineties and his younger sister died at 105. Healthy until the end. However his first wife died of cancer as did all her sisters; and his second wife developed alzheimers. If the difference is the genes, could it be that a highly nutritious diet could have evened the playing field? And we all have a near equal chance for a healthy long life?
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  #12   ^
Old Thu, Apr-26-18, 16:53
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bluesinger bluesinger is offline
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When I was 16 my mother was diagnosed with cancer of the lymph system, had chemo and went into remission. When I was six and she had my brother, he was too large for her tiny body and I remember hearing the treatment was to "pack her with radium." Shudder! Is that why she got cancer? Who knows.

Mother went on to have multiple strokes, a heart condition, and epileptic seizures. She was on many, many drugs for many years, but lived until just shy of 90.

My father died of some sort of dementia when he was 80.

I come from hardy stock and will not be surprised to live until I'm at least 100. Will it be a life worth having? Only time will tell. But I have good genes.
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  #13   ^
Old Thu, Apr-26-18, 17:32
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deirdra deirdra is online now
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My grandmother got uterine cancer, a hysterectomy in ~1945, and was "packed with radium". 21 years later she got colon cancer (coincidence?) & had a colectomy. 21 years after that she got stomach cancer at 89 & almost made it to 90. Who knows, maybe the radium gave them superpowers.
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  #14   ^
Old Thu, Apr-26-18, 18:33
M Levac M Levac is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesinger
When I was 16 my mother was diagnosed with cancer of the lymph system, had chemo and went into remission. When I was six and she had my brother, he was too large for her tiny body and I remember hearing the treatment was to "pack her with radium." Shudder! Is that why she got cancer? Who knows.

Mother went on to have multiple strokes, a heart condition, and epileptic seizures. She was on many, many drugs for many years, but lived until just shy of 90.

My father died of some sort of dementia when he was 80.

I come from hardy stock and will not be surprised to live until I'm at least 100. Will it be a life worth having? Only time will tell. But I have good genes.

In that movie, when the elders said they used to die of old age, it means they all have good genes even today, even as they went through the infectious diseases and chronic diseases eras. I prefer to think we all have good genes, as good as any, but those good genes get ruined by 50-70 years of eating crap.

The car analogy. Two identical cars, pretty good to begin with. One gets the best gasoline, best maintenance, parts, tires, you name it. The other, none of that, it's all the cheapest and lowest quality. They're identical to begin with, they're as good as it gets, but the one with the best maintenance makes it to a million miles over 40 years, the other goes to the dump after only a few years and not even 100k miles.

For us humans, the economy of best maintenance is different. It's not really more expensive to take care of ourselves, especially when we consider how much it costs to fix us when we do get sick with all those chronic diseases. Think about it. The elders in that movie, was it expensive for their grandparents to take care of themselves well enough to eventually die of old age? But then, for a car that goes to the dump every 100k miles instead of making it to a million, we'd need to buy 10x cars to match that kind of longevity. But then again, we only got one body each.

We can make cars that last a million miles and beyond. But we can't make cars that tolerate the cheapest and lowest quality maintenance. Nor can we make that kind of human either.
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  #15   ^
Old Thu, Apr-26-18, 22:08
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Mama Sebo Mama Sebo is offline
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Thanks for digesting and sharing this. Its opened the door for me to explore more. Thinking of you,
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