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  #16   ^
Old Wed, May-16-18, 07:33
Mayflowers's Avatar
Mayflowers Mayflowers is offline
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Posts: 538
 
Plan: LCHF
Stats: 205/165/150 Female 5'6"
BF:35
Progress: 73%
Location: Jersey Girl
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I couldn't stick to paleo. Too many carbs, I kept getting cravings. I like LCHF much better. My BP dropped to 102/69 within 2 months from 137/97, and I feel better on LCHF. Also not being a big fruit fan, I don't eat that much fruit.. just berries I like. I've lost more weight, practically none on paleo. Its slow because I'm over 55. But I think LCHF is the healthiest diet and paleo could lead to diabetes with all the starchy vegetables and tons of fruit allowed. Not healthy
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  #17   ^
Old Wed, May-16-18, 07:38
Mayflowers's Avatar
Mayflowers Mayflowers is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 538
 
Plan: LCHF
Stats: 205/165/150 Female 5'6"
BF:35
Progress: 73%
Location: Jersey Girl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inflammabl
Yes that's right. Dr. Atkins said that the benefits are NOT a function of the level of ketosis. He wanted us to "climb the carb ladder", find our carb limit then take a step down.


Dr. Atkins was being kind. He came from a time where people thought it was insane to not have any carbs. Now many people who just eat meat are proving them wrong. He was just trying to keep his woe sane for the masses who believed that carbs were so important to health. Ancient man was a hunter who ate meat, with occasional fruit. Our genes haven't changed in 150,000 years.
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  #18   ^
Old Wed, May-16-18, 07:43
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cotonpal cotonpal is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 4,004
 
Plan: very low carb real food
Stats: 245/128/135 Female 62
BF:
Progress: 106%
Location: Vermont
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayflowers
I couldn't stick to paleo. Too many carbs, I kept getting cravings. I like LCHF much better. My BP dropped to 102/69 within 2 months from 137/97, and I feel better on LCHF. Also not being a big fruit fan, I don't eat that much fruit.. just berries I like. I've lost more weight, practically none on paleo. Its slow because I'm over 55. But I think LCHF is the healthiest diet and paleo could lead to diabetes with all the starchy vegetables and tons of fruit allowed. Not healthy


I describe my way of eating as low carb paleo. I follow a paleo diet but I remove all fruit. I have even removed berries because I would tend to eat too many. I have always considered a paleo diet to be more about what not to eat than about what you have to eat.
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  #19   ^
Old Wed, May-16-18, 14:54
inflammabl's Avatar
inflammabl inflammabl is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,999
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 296/220/205 Male 71 inches
BF:25%?
Progress: 84%
Location: GSP and FLL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayflowers
Dr. Atkins was being kind. He came from a time where people thought it was insane to not have any carbs. Now many people who just eat meat are proving them wrong. He was just trying to keep his woe sane for the masses who believed that carbs were so important to health. Ancient man was a hunter who ate meat, with occasional fruit. Our genes haven't changed in 150,000 years.

I don't think that's true. Do you have a quote or something to that effect? Westman, for instance, also says that there is no optimal level of ketosis.
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  #20   ^
Old Thu, May-17-18, 07:43
Mayflowers's Avatar
Mayflowers Mayflowers is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 538
 
Plan: LCHF
Stats: 205/165/150 Female 5'6"
BF:35
Progress: 73%
Location: Jersey Girl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inflammabl
I don't think that's true. Do you have a quote or something to that effect? Westman, for instance, also says that there is no optimal level of ketosis.


If you would have read Dr. Atkin's earlier books, you wouldn't be asking me that!
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  #21   ^
Old Thu, May-17-18, 08:53
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 12,692
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
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I flipped through Atkins 72 earlier reading the bits on ketosis. I'm not sure who to agree with.

I mean, he stresses that purple is good and to try to stay in ketosis, but just what shade of purple he was hoping for is a little blurry to me.

Can't find my DANDR, but I seem to remember some troubleshooting sections where he talks about what to do if the weight's not coming off, or you're not losing inches, or you're not in ketosis--with the second two sort of being signs that a person might be on the right course, even if the scale wasn't willing to admit it.




This Phinney/Volek graph--I've heard Westman in recent videos saying yeah, well, this seemed like a good idea at the time, but he doesn't really think it makes sense to place optimal nutritional ketosis where it is on the graph. I seem to do better shifted somewhat to the right. That involves keeping my protein not too high above requirements. What if I had to lower my protein to below requirement to achieve the same ketones? A level of ketosis that actually required me to be deficient in protein, it's hard to see that as optimal. Not a very elaborate thought experiment, but it's good enough for me to shrug and say that optimal ketosis is probably pretty personal.
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  #22   ^
Old Thu, May-17-18, 13:02
NoCarbMica NoCarbMica is offline
New Member
Posts: 17
 
Plan: Slow Carb
Stats: 110/110/125 Female 5"0'
BF:26%
Progress: 0%
Location: Houston, TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sks23cu
Lots of info!
I don't worry about my ketone blood levels. I do have a Ketonix that I used to get a qualitative idea of my glucose levels early on. But now that I've gone full zero carb (no plants) I don't bother anymore. Especially since the hard medical results are remission of: obesity, T2 diabetes, high volume metastatic prostate cancer, acid reflux, ...


How hard was it for you to go full zero carb? I was also thinking about a ketonix, was the data accurate in your opinion? I have so many questions. The health benefits alone of full zero carb are absolutely incredible, thank you.
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  #23   ^
Old Thu, May-17-18, 14:00
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 7,602
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/225/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 23%
Location: Massachusetts
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Last edited by Ms Arielle : Fri, May-18-18 at 06:37.
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  #24   ^
Old Thu, May-17-18, 14:20
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 7,602
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/225/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 23%
Location: Massachusetts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayflowers
Dr. Atkins was being kind. He came from a time where people thought it was insane to not have any carbs. Now many people who just eat meat are proving them wrong. He was just trying to keep his woe sane for the masses who believed that carbs were so important to health. Ancient man was a hunter who ate meat, with occasional fruit. Our genes haven't changed in 150,000 years.



While I genenally agree with your take that Atikins was trying to pave the way ....
I actually have a slighly different view on this point. Rather, he recognized the inherent value in vegetables like the vitamins and minerals that are not fulfilled by meats alone.

side note==Our commercially produced meats are NOT nearly as healthful as the grassfed meats.

We also ate many vegetable type foods because most fruits have a limited availablity. Most fruiting plants are good for 2-3 weeks generally, with some exceptions.

I see edible plants all around me: purslane, queens ann lace, dandilions....... when I am hungry I nosh on them..... these are un-cultivated varieties......I suspect that our human ancestors have been eating these vegies for a long time.

OTher wild vegies--

mushrooms
fiddle heads
sour clover
hazelnuts
american chestnuts
chokecherries

PS queens anne lace is now known as carrots.

Last edited by Ms Arielle : Fri, May-18-18 at 06:40.
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  #25   ^
Old Thu, May-17-18, 14:28
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 7,602
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/225/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 23%
Location: Massachusetts
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DANDR has a number of trouble shooting answers from trying FF, to loking at meds ( to eliminate them or reduce dosing), to using specific supplements.

Last edited by Ms Arielle : Fri, May-18-18 at 06:37.
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  #26   ^
Old Fri, May-18-18, 07:14
s93uv3h's Avatar
s93uv3h s93uv3h is online now
 
Plan: Atkins & IF
Stats: 000/013/015 Male 5' 10"
BF:
Progress: 87%
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This is How Ketogenesis Works | MWM 2.32

Very interesting series; Masterclass with Masterjohn.

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  #27   ^
Old Fri, May-18-18, 11:25
Mayflowers's Avatar
Mayflowers Mayflowers is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 538
 
Plan: LCHF
Stats: 205/165/150 Female 5'6"
BF:35
Progress: 73%
Location: Jersey Girl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms Arielle
While I genenally agree with your take that Atikins was trying to pave the way ....
I actually have a slighly different view on this point. Rather, he recognized the inherent value in vegetables like the vitamins and minerals that are not fulfilled by meats alone..

I totally agree with you. I couldn't do a carnivore diet. I need variety, and I happened to love vegetables so low carb is hard enough.. I had to give up grains because my body was sending me messages of joint pain every time I ate them!.. Even quinoa, which I don't believe is a grain but a seed? Gave me terrible shoulder pain.
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  #28   ^
Old Fri, May-18-18, 13:32
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 7,602
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/225/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 23%
Location: Massachusetts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayflowers
I totally agree with you. I couldn't do a carnivore diet. I need variety, and I happened to love vegetables so low carb is hard enough.. I had to give up grains because my body was sending me messages of joint pain every time I ate them!.. Even quinoa, which I don't believe is a grain but a seed? Gave me terrible shoulder pain.


FOr clarification, imo, between grain and seed: grains are seeds, but not all seeds are grains.

Seeds, nuts and grains----all on the spectrum of seeds. Took me a bit of think time to underdtand why seeds and nuts might be better than grains. Mostly likely is the % of starch/carb of each seed. And % oil, % protein.

Plus each has its oue unique profile of chemicals.
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  #29   ^
Old Sat, May-19-18, 07:21
Mayflowers's Avatar
Mayflowers Mayflowers is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 538
 
Plan: LCHF
Stats: 205/165/150 Female 5'6"
BF:35
Progress: 73%
Location: Jersey Girl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms Arielle
FOr clarification, imo, between grain and seed: grains are seeds, but not all seeds are grains.

Ah yes, I understand. The "seeds" I can't tolerate are the grass seeds. Quinoa is the seed of a different plant that's not a grass, but sadly it affected me as well.
I can tolerate sunflower seeds ok, pumpkin seeds ok and nuts.

And to back up my earlier statement Atkins, The New Diet Revolution pages 5 and 6 the 1981 version.

Last edited by Mayflowers : Sat, May-19-18 at 07:39.
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  #30   ^
Old Sat, May-19-18, 14:18
Meme#1's Avatar
Meme#1 Meme#1 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 8,945
 
Plan: Atkins DANDR
Stats: 210/183/160 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 54%
Location: Texas
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What's the name of the chapter or the section?
I wanted to reread but I
only have the 2002 version which on pg 5-6 is chapter "the promise", section "The Two Pictures"
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