It seems that:

1) None of the rest of us on this forum who have read and responded to your post have experienced symptoms at all like those you describe despite the fact that many of us have been eating this way for YEARS.

2) None of us on this forum know of any other low-carbers who have experienced symptoms like you describe.

3) The Authority Nutrition article that you cite to cites to scientific studies that do NOT describe subjects experiencing similar symptoms on a low-carb diet.

The first scientific study cited by Authority Nutrition is a meta analysis comparing low-fat and low-carb diets for weight loss efficacy and how well they ameliorate the risk of developing cardiovascular disease. The study comes to the conclusion that low carb results in greater weight loss AND provides a greater REDUCTION in risk for cardiovascular disease. i.e., Low carb is better than low fat.

The second study cited by the Authority Nutrition article is all about how STRESS affects hormone production. I don't think you'll find many people who would argue against the idea that too much stress will make hormones go haywire! But the study cited by Authority Nutrition doesn't seem to mention low carb AT ALL. So unless you want to argue that eating low carb is too stressful and therefore negatively impacts hormones, the second scientific study cited appears to me to be a total red herring.

The third scientific study cited by Authority Nutrition is about the relationship between chronic fatigue syndrome and diurnal (twice daily) variation in the levels of the hormone cortisol. The study concludes that there is less variation in the cortisol levels of CFS patients from morning to evening than there is in healthy subjects. Again, there is no mention of low carb. Had Authority Nutrition linked this citation to another one showing that eating low carb affects the diurnal variation in levels of cortisol, they might have some evidence that low-carb MIGHT be related to chronic fatigue syndrome. But they don't provide any such citation.

Based solely on the above three studies, Authority Nutrition then states broadly "Many sources suggest that a diet too low in calories or carbs can also act as a stressor, causing HPA dysfunction." Yet Authority Nutrition provides NO additional citations to any of these "many sources". And the three sources it does cite don't say anything, either individually or in toto about carbs causing hormonal dysfunction.

I can find studies that show that a diet too low in calories (i.e., a starvation diet" can affect cortisol production, possibly resulting in some sort of dysfunction that, I suppose, might lead to the symptoms you complain about. Eg; this meta analysis but I don't find anything that suggests that a month of low carbing, with plenty of calories, is even slightly likely to have a similar effect. Nor can I find anything that suggests that anyone else, anywhere else has ever experienced symptoms such as you describe due to low carb.

The bottom line is that it seems highly unlikely that your symptoms are related to your month-long low-carb experiment. It is POSSIBLE that your symptoms were caused by, low-carb. But then, ANYTHING is POSSIBLE...including that at some point during the past month you were exposed to some horrid new disease cooked up in the laboratories of some utterly demented master-criminal and that the next thing that is going to happen is you're going to turn bright blue and then explode into a gazillion pieces in order to spread that horrid new disease to the rest of the world.



Alternatively, it is also POSSIBLE that you are an anti-low-carb fanatic - perhaps a devout vegan who considers all us meat-loving low-carbers to be morally bankrupt - and you wrote in because you want to scare people away from even trying this "disgusting" of way eating by suggesting that HORRIBLE HORRIBLE things COULD happen to them!

There are folks who will say/do anything to advance a cause that they sincerely believe in. And spreading fear via unsubstantiated (and un-substantiatable) rumors posted anonymously on the internet certainly seems to be a modus operandi that is, unfortunately, becoming increasingly popular.

I get it....you guys HAVE to stick up for the diet, but I never said it definitely was the cause of my symptoms. I have looked up a lot of articles that claim similar things, especially in those who have genetic or autoimmune issues. I even stated in the first post I used to have hypothyroidism and my family has a history of pituitary disorders, so that should automatically be thrown out? Again, I'm just searching for answers.

There is no way to online if someone is genuinely looking for help on something when they seem to already feel there is a problem. It is like loving pirelli tires but instead going to the pirelli forum praise them you go to the goodyear forum and telling them why their tires stink.

I don't think people HAVE to stick up for anything but they are passionate about what has worked for them.
IMO the hormonal issue is not do to Atkins or LCing but present in the body already or you are adding something that is causing an issue. Yams for example, A over usage of Soy can all cause those issues.
If you are eating well on LC you are eating good meat and fat and veggies. There is nothing there that is going to cause an issue.

I hope you find your answers.

You claim you are searching for answers, yet you completely ignore much of the excellent advice given by our members. You seem to be looking for trouble rather than answers.

I think we've wasted more than enough time on this person now...

No, we don't have to stick up for the diet. I will share what has worked for me, then it's up to you to decide if it will work for you.

Konflict - go to a specialist. Maybe you are enjoying stirring this pot?

The only time I have seen someone not do well on low carb and /or ketogenic diet was someone who suffered from Addisons disease and granted, she had been put on unneeded metformin by a very unethical endocrinologist as well. He scared her off of low carb so she is still struggling with different issues... people with Hashies are Also advised to not go too low in carbs....I haven't read this whole thread so the wonderful experts here have probably already addressed that. Good luck and I pray you can get some answers to your own struggles!

Nope, not true. Nobody is paying me a penny NOR is anybody holding a gun to my head to make me "stick up" for this diet. And there are people posting regularly on this forum who have tried low-carb and abandoned it because, for one reason or another, it didn't seem to work for them. They are trying other things (one has gone vegan, another is trying "raw foods only"). These folks are STILL welcome here and we still cheer them on and support their efforts.

For those who are or who have been obese, excess weight is a demon to be battled and we quickly learn that different weapons sometimes work better for different people. Here at lowcarber.org, the vast majority of long-time members are all for WHATEVER WORKS for each individual. However, as is to be expected at a website called lowcarber.og many (nay, MOST) of us, gathered here, have found that low-carb worked best for us.

And yes, we are passionate about sharing what we have found but no, we don't insist that you HAVE to do as we did. And no, we don't HAVE TO stick up for the diet.

If you have actual, scientific studies that indicate that low-carb is detrimental to those who have genetic or autoimmune issues...or to anyone else for that matter, PLEASE SHARE THEM with us.

But, please don't bother to give us any more links to secondary sources (such as Authority Nutrition) that make sweeping claims but then, when one reads the primary sources cited by the secondary source, it turns out that the primary sources don't actually support the claims that the secondary source is making.

IMHO, it was intellectually DISHONEST of Authority Nutrition's to mis-use scientific studies that were, at best, only peripherally related to the question of whether a low-carb diet MIGHT be bad (and which in one case support the opposite conclusion) in order to bolster Authority Nutrition's sweeping claims that "...a diet too low in calories or carbs can also act as a stressor, causing HPA dysfunction."

Such practices mislead people (perhaps such as yourself) who lack the science background necessary to actually read and understand the documents cited so TRUST that Authority Nutrition is giving them the straight scoop. It is also unfair to the scientists who did the research to so egregiously misrepresent their scientific reports.

As far as I am concerned, Authority Nutrition has lost ALL credibility.

That's really not true of this forum. I have never experienced another message board with as many honest, helpful people as this one. I have seen people post here saying that they had better success with another diet and they got nothing but encouragement and well wishes. On the other hand, I personally tried the McDougall diet and when I ran into trouble I posted on their forum asking for help and was attacked and called a troll right off the bat.

Lowcarbers are, in my experience, very open-minded people searching for an answer. It's not a religion like veganism is for so many. I hope you find the answer you're looking for.

"Konflict" sounds like a good Troll Name.

I noticed that too.

I read your first post and I thought "OK, he knows a thing or two", then I read this post and I know you barely know what you're doing. I don't want you insult you here, but it's obvious to everybody on this forum that you barely know a thing about low-carb. Rather, you barely know anything about genuine food. In the end, low-carb is about eating genuine food.

A common problem with low-carb is that it ain't actually low-carb. Sometimes there's still too many carbs, sometimes it's just not food. You figured out the carbs part (down to 20-30g/day), but you still have a problem with the food part (whey protein? Bro, that ain't food). Let's fix that, then maybe you'll figure out why you feel like crap.

You cut out the carbs down to 20-30g/day. At some point you started feeling like crap. Don't blame that, carbs got you sick in the first place. Carbs don't suddenly become the good guys just because they're not there anymore. The problems caused by carbs have been removed. Now you got new problems caused by something else.

Low-carb exposes other problems by removing the main cause - carbs. If carbs was the only thing, then you should return to good health. You didn't return to good health, therefore there are other problems. Find them, fix them.

Here's a test. For a week, eat only meat and drink water. That's it. Three rules for this. Eat fresh meat. Eat enough fat. Eat when you're hungry. That's it. When you eat only meat, the meat cannot be cooked too much, there's got to be some part that's still raw. That's what "fresh" means. Cooking destroys some stuff in there that is otherwise essential to maintain good health. Well, it's possible that this same stuff is just as essential when we eat other things besides meat, and the meat you do eat is cooked too much, it's not fresh anymore, your diet is deficient somehow. Maybe. It's an idea. And by "only meat", I mean only meat, no butter, no olive oil, nothing else but meat. This ain't some wishy-washy test you can do half way and still expect reliable results, fresh meat cures scurvy, and fresh meat is genuine food.

Another test. Cut out all supplements for a week. Rather, rethink your view of supplements. Today, we use supplements as prevention rather than therapy. Turn this around. You don't know what they prevent, cuz you don't know what happens when you don't take them, cuz you always take them. You don't know what your baseline is, you can't compare, you can't distinguish.

Another test. Fast for a week. That means no food, just water. Here's how this works. Health is the normal state when you do nothing. This means if you do nothing and health is not present, then you're obviously not healthy to begin with, there's something else going on besides diet.

The point of these tests is to figure out why you feel like crap, to find the problem and fix it. Keep a log of everything you do, and of every possible symptom. Be systematic about it. Anything can be significant, can allow you to find the problem. Question everything you think is true, cuz it's likely you don't actually know. Rely on the facts. This means if you've ever thought that something was caused by something else, and you believe in that conclusion, that's not a fact, it's a mind trick. So, rethink all your mind tricks and realize they're not facts, it's all unreliable. On the other hand, there's some obvious stuff that's absolutely reliable. For example, if a thing is not there, then it's impossible that it suddenly appears out of thin air. Conversely, if a problem suddenly appears, then obviously something happened.

Abandon the calorie. Seriously. You're going nowhere with this idea. The calorie is not a fact, it's just an idea, it's just as unreliable as any other idea.

Here's a good test for questioning what you think is true. Question low-carb. Do it not because you believe something, but to figure out why low-carb works the way it does, or at all. Try to make low-carb look bad, find out how this can be done. I bet you'll find that you can make low-carb look bad when you add things like whey protein, hm? This isn't just to make a point about low-carb, it's to make you question what you think is true. The simplest way is to ask the question "What is it?", do this for everything you're questioning now. What is supplements? What is whey protein? What is mayo? What is olive oil? What is genuine food? Get it? That's how you start questioning. You ask what it is before you ask any other question. That's because if you're obviously wrong about something, you'll know right away - you won't know the answer to that first question.

I've been talking about whey protein as if that was obviously not food, and it's not food, but the point is to make you realize that if you've been eating that, and if you believed you were eating genuine food but it ain't, what else have you been eating that you believe is genuine food but it ain't, hm?

You think it's food you're eating?

As for low-carb causing hormonal disorders, that's very unlikely. Hormones like testosterone and estrogen are made from cholesterol - sterols - which is made from fat, and low-carb should have lots of fat. If anything, low-carb should return these hormones to normal, by providing ample substrates for their production. Low-carb provides genuine food, from which the body will make everything it needs, including hormones like T3 for example. If there is a problem with the thyroid, it's not because of low-carb, but because of something else, which low-carb merely exposed by removing the main cause - carbs. There's the idea that carbs somehow compensate for a thyroid deficiency or disorder. Well, if that idea is true, then we have reason to examine the thyroid itself, rather than to just compensate by eating more carbs again, which were the main cause of problems in the first place.

A quick test for thyroid problems is to supplement with a single therapeutic dose of iodine. Specifically for iodine, it's possible to react badly to that. But, iodine is essential, so it's absurd that we could be allergic to it. The more likely explanation is that somehow iodine is used by some pathogen that then becomes more active, and that's why we react badly to it. Here too, just like with low-carb, we can expose underlying problems.

Carbs stimulate more than just insulin. Hormones like epinephrine and cortisol are also affected. Therefore, these same hormones are affected when we go low-carb, and we will feel the effects. More than that, we will feel the effects of all these changes, all at once. If there's nothing else besides carbs, health returns quickly without much adverse effect. But if there's even one other thing wrong - besides carbs - then low-carb will expose it.

Our gut is host to a multitude of organisms, some good some bad. When we go low-carb, we change their environment, sometimes with great effect - some species die off, others thrive and grow in number. The effect of these changes is sometimes significant, so much so that we will feel like crap for a while, or maybe longer. One such effect is called Herxheimer reaction.

Diet alone cannot treat everything. Sometimes, we're just sick, regardless of what we eat. Could be an infection, some injury, some disorder, some deficiency. Find it, fix it. When you go low-carb, it exposes these other problems, but doesn't tell you exactly what they are. If you go low-carb for real, not willy nilly with fake food and crap.

A doc could help you figure this out. Didn't work for me. They're idjits. But they're great when you figure out exactly what's wrong, and tell them exactly what treatment to prescribe. Or maybe your doc is just brilliant.

This is just how I see it, not necessarily how it actually works.

It's just my gamertag and use it on forums so I always remember what to sign in with.....pretty simple. Why try to put me down when I'm feeling horrible and just looking for anything that can help me ?

The whey protein was just after the gym and once a day on non workout days...just included it because it's something I had daily.

Well I've been discontinued the low carb diet and just eating balanced now. But these symptoms still remain and aren't going away. And I did post an article about how Vitamin E mixed tocopherols can decrease estrogen synthesis, but everyone seems to brush it off. It possible could be why the low carb exposed it?

I just know my doctors aren't finding much.....had and inflammation and rheumatoid test that shows low normal range. Idk I still think I screwed up my HPA axis and cause some kind of permanent damage.

OK, let's look at that possible permanent damage to the HPTA axis. Normally, this is a dynamic system that regulates itself, right? So, we could describe the normal state as permanent, yes? OK, this means that if there is permanent damage, it's an abnormal state that is maintained by some agent, some pathogen or deficiency or something. The alternative is that somehow there is permanent irreversible physical damage to the organs or tissues. Which is more likely here?

Low-carb does not cause permanent physical changes, certainly not in a month. In fact, diet does not cause permanent damage unless there's deficiency or poisoning over several years. Primarily, low-carb (and any other diet) alters hormonal systems, such as insulin level and regulation for example, by reducing or removing the primary agent that disrupts these systems. If one goes back to high-carb, one returns these systems to a disrupted state. And these systems remain disrupted so long as one consumes the disrupting agent, or in the case of deficiency so long as one does not consume the required nutrient.

You changed your diet, yet you're still sick. Well, you're sick, and it's got nothing to do with diet. This is a genuine medical problem. Find it, fix it. It's either an infection, a deficiency, or a disorder. Note all symptoms, even stuff that you wouldn't think were symptoms, anything can be significant. You don't know what you got, you can't possibly know what's important, so anything can be important. For example, you got some acne? Right, at 30 years old? This ain't normal. See what I mean? Note everything. Make a list. Describe them with the most accurate detail. Write it all down.

I've seen Konflict use the same name on another forum devoted to more bodybuilding-related nutrition, asking the same sort of questions he's asking here. I think he's being genuine, he's just looking for answers in the wrong places.

Konflict, absolutely it's possible that you had a particularly poor response to low carb. I've seen a fellow show up on facebook pages dedicated to the ketogenic diet, saying that protein gives him hypos--some people told him no, that's impossible, only happens with carbs. Which is nonsense--protein-induced hypoglycemia isn't the usual course of events, most people switching from high carb to high protein, low carb will be less likely to have postprandial hypoglycemia, but there are definite enzyme deficiencies etc. that can make a high protein diet hypoglycemic for some small portion of the population. It's rare--but then, who's most likely to show up on a facebook page complaining about hypoglycemia from eating protein? It seems fairly likely that while it's rare in the general population, in the population of people with glucose meters who measure these things, and find their blood glucose going down significantly, along with hypoglycemic syndromes, after eating protein, it's going to be considerably rarer. I'd say that. But if the same person showed up with evidence that a low carb diet messes up the glucagon/insulin axis, making people generally more susceptible to hypoglycemia, or with some blogger's theory that a low carb diet generally causes a glucose deficiency--I'd be arguing against that, while acknowledging that for all I know, that person might have an individual or family metabolic quirk so that things just plain work differently for him.

My argument isn't that you couldn't be particularly susceptible to a poor outcome on a low carb diet, for whatever reason.

As far as the vitamin e suppressing estrogen so that you responded poorly to a low carb diet goes--that just puts too many links in the chain. You can't present a theory about what might have led up to a poor response to a low carb diet as evidence that the low carb diet itself caused your symptoms. Maybe taking vitamin e and then going on a low carb diet really screws people up. The fact that sunflower seeds, almonds, and other etc. low carb foods are particularly rich sources of vitamin e, and that vitamin e is one of the more popular supplements out there, and nobody seems to have noticed this problem but you sort of argues against this being an at all common problem.

I think I asked this before--did you eat any veggies during your low carb period? People argue that all-meat is fine, there are experiments with people eating just meat for long periods, and there are people who did just fine--and there are people who did not. It's like veganism, one guy goes vegan for a year, everything's fine. Another guy gets b12 deficiency after a couple of months. Just on the off-chance, a multi-vitamin might make sense if you're not already taking one.