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  #16   ^
Old Sun, Jan-29-17, 14:07
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Posts: 10,049
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/161/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 84%
Location: USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teaser
My skepticism isn't that niacin is an unlikely treatment, I just dont think an overarching theory of everything is in order, there are people out there who do.


True. There's a disorder, but also multiple causes.
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  #17   ^
Old Sun, Jan-29-17, 14:39
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Posts: 1,968
 
Plan: Ketogenic (LCHFKD)
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
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And multiple degrees of severity, deficiency and/or resistance.
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  #18   ^
Old Sun, Jan-29-17, 15:09
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Posts: 10,049
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/161/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 84%
Location: USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GRB5111
And multiple degrees of severity, deficiency and/or resistance.


Exactly. On top of which is individual variation, like teaser was referring to.

I got into nutritional tactics because my DH has a chronic fatigue illness. But I have found that what works for me might not work for him, and what is vital to him does nothing for my issues.

However, I have a close relative who is doing well from what benefits me. Which makes sense: we share a lot of genetics.

This niacin thing is so radical and intriguing, not to mention targeting my big issues like stress and sleep, that I just have to "experiment on myself." That's what I've been doing since I started Atkins over a decade ago.

This is just the latest experiment.
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  #19   ^
Old Sun, Jan-29-17, 15:21
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Posts: 10,049
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/161/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 84%
Location: USA
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Additionally:

Back in the day, sick people were sent away to rest. Tuberculosis sanitariums, rest homes, and so forth allowed their patients the space to recover.

I'm not getting that.

Granted, antibiotics worked out better than the cure porch. But what I need after the hellish years of great stress and body pushed to the limits is some rest and relaxation, but I can't have that. Medicine these days is "give you a pill and show you the door," and while for some things that is better; I believe that, for some things, it is worse.
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  #20   ^
Old Sun, Jan-29-17, 19:14
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steakum steakum is offline
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Posts: 182
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 210/165/140 Female 5'5"
BF:
Progress: 64%
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hey you might want to research by googling niacin insulin resistance obesity.
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  #21   ^
Old Sun, Jan-29-17, 19:52
Bonnie OFS Bonnie OFS is online now
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Plan: Dr. Bernstein
Stats: 188/160/135 Female 5 ft 4 inches
BF:
Progress: 53%
Location: NE WA
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While I'm more than willing to experiment on myself, I'm a bit leery of B vitamins. A while back I read that a B - I think it as B1 - was good for lowering blood glucose. And it did! I was really excited until I realized it was also lowering my blood pressure to unhealthy levels. So I quit.

Does niacin also lower blood pressure?
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  #22   ^
Old Sun, Jan-29-17, 19:59
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Posts: 10,049
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/161/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 84%
Location: USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonnie OFS
Does niacin also lower blood pressure?


Only in the sense that it helps with Metabolic Syndrome.

The authors, three doctors, quote a lot of scientific papers and recommend a Whole Foods/low carbish diet, and taking lots of C, and a B complex with each dose.

I think you were right to see how the B1 worked for you. I am monitoring my own reactions and I ramped up slowly.
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  #23   ^
Old Sun, Jan-29-17, 20:07
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Posts: 10,049
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/161/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 84%
Location: USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steakum
hey you might want to research by googling niacin insulin resistance obesity.


Great point. It could explain the wonderful effect on my appetite regulation. I eat a nice low carb meal, not too big, and I am not hungry for hours. Just as it should be!

One article I saw though, got me ragey: they were all "does the niacin fortification in the flour lead to diabetes...."

Because of course it cannot be the flour!
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  #24   ^
Old Mon, Jan-30-17, 09:19
sandy867's Avatar
sandy867 sandy867 is offline
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Plan: LC/low Lactose
Stats: 304/302/130 Female 65 "
BF:
Progress: 1%
Location: PNW
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Jumping in here, because I've started on niacin, both me and my 13 yr. old daughter.

I have long suspected my family had poor absorption of niacin and other B vitamins, many of us suffer from acne, obesity, arthritic aches and pains (not to mention needing hip replacements as we age), gallbladder issues, and mental issues having to do with stress such as depression and anxiety. I have 3 daughters, the oldest is already grown up and gone. The 2nd and 3rd still home. Our 3rd has obesity and acne, complains of aches and pains, and is depressed with some anxiety and disordered thinking. Our 2nd has a tendency to obesity and acne and depression as well, but less so. So rather than going the medical route I've talked DD3 into niacin therapy and she's going to try it; I'm also going on it but in lesser doses for my arthritic type symptoms.

So we've been on for a couple of days now. I'm taking 500 g after supper, I had a minor flush, mainly on the forearms. I wonder why the flush is mainly there? When I took one in the morning I had a major painfully tingling all body flush that reached to the toes. Felt like being dipped in hot sauce! Not really sure why as I also had it after food, but I'll try to avoid that. DD3 had an intense flush the first time she had it and it seems to have died down a fair bit, fairly quickly.

I do seem to have reduced pain symptoms and am sleeping better and dealing well with stress.

On the down side, when I take it it feels like my heart has pain and is strained a bit. I woke today with a bit of angina, which I don't generally have. I know the dilation of blood vessels happens systemically and I suppose that's happening to my heart as well.

On the good side, there are increased vaginal lubrications, lol! I haven't noticed a decrease in my hunger, or any change in weight but it is early days yet. I am not currently low carbing but do avoid milk as I am lactose intolerant.

I'm going to note any changes with DD3, which is the main thing.

Other things I take fairly regularly are ibuprofen (600 mg at morning and sometimes before bed or after a nap if I feel achy), Vit. C, Vit. D and Biotin. I have a tendency not to absorb enough calcium and I occasionally get crampy, so I also fairly often take chewable calcium, potassium, magnesium, and an algae called Chlorella which is a greens supplement with good results.

I have a large family to look after, drive bus part time, volunteer a lot, go to church regularly, don't smoke, drink coffee and alcohol very sparingly and am nearly 50 living near the PNW where we don't get much sun but lots of fresh air, views and moisture. This beautiful land feeds my spirit.

I have joint pain, especially in the knees, but I am carrying almost 300 lbs. every day, up and down buses, walking, etc. I love soaking in hot water for the pain relief and relaxation. I also find the volunteering relaxing though somewhat tiring also, and have to be careful to limit it sometimes. I knit, paint, journal, play solitary mind-stimulating games such as Sudoku, crosswords and Mahjong a fair bit, and have a beautiful cat.

Last edited by sandy867 : Mon, Jan-30-17 at 09:31.
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  #25   ^
Old Mon, Jan-30-17, 10:07
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Posts: 10,049
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/161/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 84%
Location: USA
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The book emphasizes taking a B complex with every dose of niacin.

I've gotten a bottle of lower dose B complex to take three times a day.
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  #26   ^
Old Mon, Jan-30-17, 22:48
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Posts: 1,968
 
Plan: Ketogenic (LCHFKD)
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
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More than 2/3 of the way through the book, and I'm really enjoying it. The identification of the dangers of sugar and processed carbs from these authors in their practices and research since the 60s, 70s, and 80s indicates to me that their nutritional awareness covered a lot of areas including the ones that weren't in vogue at the time. The stories and anecdotes are very interesting.

Started the niacin protocol over the weekend and ordered a quantity of B-Complex that will arrive tomorrow. I'm embarking on another N=1 as well and learning as much as I can in the process.
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  #27   ^
Old Tue, Jan-31-17, 07:34
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Posts: 10,049
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/161/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 84%
Location: USA
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Got this warning from an online friend:

Quote:
If anyone has methylation cycle problems, like MTHFR, niacin can make it worse as it slows methylation. If that's the case you'll feel really bad, and energy will tank very rapidly.


As always, keep monitoring body signals and listen to them. I have been tested for this gene, and it does not affect me. But it does affect DH.

And yet another reason to start slow, and build gradually.

I am having trouble sleeping, but I don't think it's the niacin: it's the US election results. If anything, niacin is helping me get back to sleep. Despite the 2 am waking (a symptom of cortisol problems) when I do wake up at my usual time, I feel rested, instead of that OMG-crashed feeling from not having good sleep at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GRB5111
Started the niacin protocol over the weekend and ordered a quantity of B-Complex that will arrive tomorrow. I'm embarking on another N=1 as well and learning as much as I can in the process.


Thrilled to have company on this voyage! A close relative with stress problems is also starting the therapeutic level at this time, and reading the book.

Yes, the book occasionally startled me with the whole grains recc, but they wouldn't have known about Dr. Davis' work with grains. And there would have been no research about the MTFHR gene. They do repeat that not everyone gets results with niacin; and that just might be why.

One of the things the book repeats, that I just love, is, "X disease is not a drug-deficiency disease." It makes so much sense to give the body what it needs.

This was also the part that gave my relative pause: why do we need so much? How could we get this in an ancestral environment?

I think we didn't need it so much in the ancestral environment. I took up niacin largely because of stress. As my GP put it, "literal killer stress." Modern life, and modern mayhem, and poor diet for decades: that's going to add up and affect the brain; which the book does discuss.

Last edited by WereBear : Tue, Jan-31-17 at 08:17.
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  #28   ^
Old Tue, Jan-31-17, 08:07
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Posts: 10,049
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/161/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 84%
Location: USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandy867
I'm taking 500 g after supper, I had a minor flush, mainly on the forearms. I wonder why the flush is mainly there? When I took one in the morning I had a major painfully tingling all body flush that reached to the toes. Felt like being dipped in hot sauce! Not really sure why as I also had it after food, but I'll try to avoid that. DD3 had an intense flush the first time she had it and it seems to have died down a fair bit, fairly quickly.


Welcome, Sandy! The flush is a mysterious part.
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  #29   ^
Old Tue, Jan-31-17, 09:16
sandy867's Avatar
sandy867 sandy867 is offline
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Posts: 4,542
 
Plan: LC/low Lactose
Stats: 304/302/130 Female 65 "
BF:
Progress: 1%
Location: PNW
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Thanks! I had a little flush, barely noticeable last night. Am thinking of taking a tablet after breakfast today and doing the whole flush again or see if it happens.

I don't like taking the whole B-complex, such great horse pills and I doubt they absorb very well. I don't like the smell also. And I am leery of having to take everything together. I know they are a group of vitamins that have been lumped together and I'd rather tease them apart and identify which I really need.

As I see it, niacin targets ectodermic tissues; skin, nails and hair, brain and nerves, breasts and glands in the skin, eyes, ears and nose. The vasodilation effects everything, though, and probably provides a detox in that blood reaches each area more efficiently in spots that are poorly vascularized and fatty areas of the body qualify. It probably is this quality that is the anti-cancer property of this vitamin.

I take biotin, another B-vitamin for its good effects on nails, skin and hair as well. I noticed when I started taking it that not only did my nails improve but grey hairs went dark again! Not all of them, but some. Now that is something!

The vitamin C I take is the chewable kind, and I tend to have the higher dosages but I don't take it every day, just whenever I feel my immune system is low or I need greater healing capabilities for it's boost to connective tissue.
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  #30   ^
Old Tue, Jan-31-17, 09:47
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teaser teaser is offline
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Plan: ketosis/IF
Stats: 190/158/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 89%
Location: Ontario
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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2947210/

Anybody who's ever been on the Zone diet probably remembers Sears going on about eicosanoids, these are little metabolites involved in regulation of inflammation, produced from essential fatty acids. Some of them promote vasodilation, flush-type niacin increases production of eicosanoids which do this.
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