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  #1   ^
Old Mon, Jul-04-16, 13:34
1DogDay's Avatar
1DogDay 1DogDay is offline
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Default Pasta Lowers Your BMI - how can this be?

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  #2   ^
Old Tue, Jul-05-16, 04:10
Nikki in N's Avatar
Nikki in N Nikki in N is offline
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Plan: Ketogenic Diet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1DogDay


There are so many other factors to consider in a study of this type. I live in italy and so I happen to know that while yes, Italians eat pasta daily and in general have a much healthier BMI than NA's, maybe, just maybe, these factors have something to do with it:

1. they eat a super light, or forego breakfast. Usually a cappucino, maybe a few melba toast dipped in it, or 2 or 3 biscotti.

2. they eat their pasta (about 100 g per person) as their main course mid day, any time between 1 and 2 pm. They follow this by a small portion of salad and a very small portion of protein with a side of veggies.

3. They don't snack. If they do it is healthy, a small portion of fruit or a couple slices of prosciutto/cheese

4. Italians use virtually 0 sugar unless it is a few tspns in their espresso. Yes, they make amazing baked treats but they eat them on very rare occasions and in their general diet they consume MINIMAL sugar.

5. They eat a VERY light evening meal. A nice portion of seasonal veggies and a TASTE of protein, cheese on a slice of fresh bread. Again, since they eat late (between 8-9 pm) this eliminates snacking from the evening.

6. Italians don't use fillers/conservatives. They eat fresh produce. Less hidden junk. Also, they don't use butter on their breads, they use their bread (fresh daily, no conservatives) to mop up the juices from their food. They don't eat MUCH bread either, even though it might seem like it, compared to the NA diet they would eat ALOT less bread over all.

So I would say Italians are almost existing on a consisten intermittent fast (from 9 pm in the evening through till at least 1 pm the following day) state, PLUS eating HEALTHY food (lots of healthy fats, TONS of fresh seasonal produce) and a hearty lunch sandwiched between two light meals. I would guess all these factors, plus the fact they walk and bike a lot more than NA's would factor into the healthy BMI more than the fact that they eat pasta just my 2(00) cents!
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  #3   ^
Old Tue, Jul-05-16, 04:29
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
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I like the part where he says that Americans get 65 percent of their calories from carbs and 35 percent from fat. There's the problem right there, 100 percent of their calories, and they haven't even had any protein yet.

Also the part where he talks about foods with simple sugars, and brings in vegetables... technically true that the sugars in many low carb veggies come from sugar, but they're low carb, so it doesn't actually matter.
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  #4   ^
Old Tue, Jul-05-16, 04:54
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
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NIkki, that's an excellent explanation from the perspective of cultural traditions. All good points.

Also, reading this study in Nature...it has exceedingly complex statistical manipulations, full of linear regressions and P values with extra bonuses on good data collection...we used all seasons!, weekday and weekend! gave them a picture book to estimate portion sizes! But after pulling out all the stops on dozens of ways to massage data, it comes down to a 24 hour food recall survey.

"The European Prospective Investigation into Cancer and Nutrition (EPIC)-food frequency questionnaire and one 24-hr dietary recall were used for dietary assessment. Weight, height, waist and hip circumference were measured in Moli-sani or self-reported in INHES." One food frequency recall will never capture true intake (just human nature to underestimate.. I've been in a study that used one) and then let's ask Italian women for their self-reported weight and waist size. And with all that solid information entered into the statistical formulas...that's how it can be

And when they did see the under reporting they tried a statistical model to get rid of it. "Simple linear regression analysis indicated that pasta intake expressed as grams per day was positively associated with BMI in both genders (Figure 1). However, because underreporting of energy intake was evident in obese women participants (Table 1), the energy residuals methodology was elaborated to overcome related bias and the association changed direction from positive to negative (Figure 1). Funny how that works

Bolded could also be stated as pasta makes you fat. However, the media reads the conclusion of this study and the headlines become pasta doesn't make you fat.

Last edited by JEY100 : Tue, Jul-05-16 at 05:38.
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  #5   ^
Old Tue, Jul-05-16, 06:14
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
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Plan: mostly milkfat
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I'll throw in that while maybe eating the way Nikki describes might work for some people in Italy, it's a fair description of how I used to diet in the 90's--and I could lose weight that way, and perhaps in Italy I could have maintained, but here in North America, it only led to frustration.
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  #6   ^
Old Tue, Jul-05-16, 06:24
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WereBear WereBear is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
And when they did see the under reporting they tried a statistical model to get rid of it. "Simple linear regression analysis indicated that pasta intake expressed as grams per day was positively associated with BMI in both genders (Figure 1). However, because underreporting of energy intake was evident in obese women participants (Table 1), the energy residuals methodology was elaborated to overcome related bias and the association changed direction from positive to negative (Figure 1). Funny how that works

Bolded could also be stated as pasta makes you fat. However, the media reads the conclusion of this study and the headlines become pasta doesn't make you fat.


Exactly, Janet!

And they admit their participants were not reporting "energy" accurately, besides.

FACT is, the world's biggest nutritional experiment has been going on for DECADES and we look around us and see the results. Reduce animal fat for seed oils, and replace a lot of that fat intake with grains. Ignore sugar. Swap out red meat for soy.

Result: large increase in diabetes, obesity, and many other chronic illnesses.

I would love to see a study that just takes all this into consideration. The experiment has been done! Let's see some honest results, shall we?
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  #7   ^
Old Tue, Jul-05-16, 07:32
Seejay's Avatar
Seejay Seejay is offline
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Even the underreporting may have been from unshakable belief in calories in, calories out. Say they saw the obese women reporting x calories but unexpected weight gain y. So the researchers think, jhm they must have been underreporting the calories in - instead of thinking, the starch is unexpectedly extra fattening!

And that subject line - "pasta lowers bmi." this is how we mistake epidemiological studies for causation. Shoddy reporting of flimsy evidence.
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  #8   ^
Old Tue, Jul-05-16, 08:30
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is online now
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A link doesn't prove anything. There could be a link between carrots and car accidents. It is just a statistical fact of the data you're looking at that people who are involved in serious car accidents have eaten more carrots in the preceding 24 hours than people who weren't.

It is like diabetes and obesity. Yes, if you have T2 diabetes you're quite likely to be overweight, but that doesn't meant that obesity causes diabetes. They could both be caused by something else.
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  #9   ^
Old Tue, Jul-05-16, 09:28
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GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
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Another Epidemiological study with the selection bias present one would expect considering the source of those conducting the study. Janet's comments really summarize the issue here. One of the things I like to do with these studies is to go to the source to read their conclusions. So I went to the IRCCS Istituto Neurologico Mediterraneo Neuromed who conducted the study to see if I could find the funding sources or to examine the conclusion from the "horses mouth". It's obvious that there is a strong regional and cultural bias in favor of the Mediterranean Diet and with pasta in particular. Here's how the group on their website (http://www.neuromed.it/) reported on the study's findings:

http://www.neuromed.it/la-pasta-non-ingrassare-anzi/ Note: I don't read Italian, so I used Google Translate to come up with the English version:

Quote:
The pasta is not fattening, indeed
A search dell'I.R.C.C.S. Neuromed in Pozzilli shows that, contrary to what many believe, the consumption of pasta does not contribute to obesity, but is instead associated with a decrease in body mass index

In recent years, the dough was found on him a bad reputation: would you fat. Which he has led many people to decide to limit its consumption, often as part of one of those aggressive diets "do it yourself." Now a study conducted by the Department of Epidemiology dell'I.R.C.C.S. Neuromed in Pozzilli does justice to this fundamental element of the Mediterranean diet, showing how the consumption of pasta is actually associated with a reduction of obesity, considering both the general and specifically the abdomen.
The research, published in the journal Nutrition and Diabetes, examined over 23,000 people placed in two large studies: Moli-sani and INHES (Italian Nutrition & Health Survey), conducted by the Department. "Analyzing the anthropometric data of the participants and their eating habits - explains George Pounis, first author of the work - we have seen that consumption of pasta, contrary to what many think, is not associated with an increase in body weight. On the contrary: our data show that eating pasta results in a healthier body mass index, lower waist circumference and waist-hip ratio better ".

From the many studies already conducted, the Mediterranean Diet is clear for its health benefits, including weight control. Very little, however, it was known, the specific role of a basic component such as pasta. Data from the study Neuromed now going to fill this gap, confirming some remarks recently conducted in the United States and Greece.

"The dough - says Licia Iacoviello, Head of the Molecular Epidemiology Laboratory and Nutritional Neuromed - is often considered a factor limiting when following a diet to lose weight. There are those who completely eliminates its meals. In light of this research, we can say that is not a correct attitude. We're talking about a fundamental component of Italian Mediterranean cuisine, and there is no reason to do without it. The message that emerges from this study, as in other scientific work already emerged in the context of the Moli-sani Project and INHES, is that follow the Mediterranean diet, moderation in consumption and in the variety of all its elements, the dough in the first place , is a benefit to your health. "

http://www.nature.com/nutd/journal/...utd201620a.html

The study was partially supported by Barilla S.p.A. through the MISE (Italian Ministry of Economic Development) Within the frame of the ATHENA program MI01_00093 - New Technologies for Made in Italy (D.I. PII MI 6/3/2008) and Epicomed Research srl

The Moli-sani Project

Party in March 2005, involved about 25,000 citizens living in the Molise region, to learn about the environmental and genetic factors underlying cardiovascular disease and cancer. The study Moli-sani, now based nell'IRCCS Neuromed, has transformed an entire Italian region in a big science lab.

The Project INHES

The Project INHES (Italian Nutrition & Health Survey) is a research program designed to generate information on eating habits, the factors influencing the choice of food and awareness about the relationship between diet and health in the Italian population. Through telephone interviews, they were collected and nutritional data on the health of 9.319 citizens of all Italian regions.


The conclusion, according to the group, is that pasta is a healthy portion of a balanced Mediterranean Diet that doesn't cause weight gain. What would we expect from a study "partially supported by Barilla?" Thank goodness! All is safe and right with the world, because without pasta, where would we be??? Barilla is making health foods!!!

Now I'd like to have them go in and do a real study to link insulin release over time designed to track the same with pasta ingestion. Only until this is done can the findings be reported accurately and with conviction. Until then? More of the same and fodder for the news media trying to find interest stories over a slow early summer period.
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  #10   ^
Old Tue, Jul-05-16, 10:00
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Equinox Equinox is offline
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There definitely IS an association between ice cream eating and drowning accidents.

When people eat more ice cream, more people drown.

Of course, the high summer temperatures are simply encouraging more ice cream eating and more going to the beach/pool to cool off, but the association is very real! It just can't ever say anything about causation. If it could, you really could state that ice cream eating kills by drowning.
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  #11   ^
Old Tue, Jul-05-16, 10:20
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WereBear WereBear is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Equinox
There definitely IS an association between ice cream eating and drowning accidents.

When people eat more ice cream, more people drown.

Of course, the high summer temperatures are simply encouraging more ice cream eating and more going to the beach/pool to cool off, but the association is very real! It just can't ever say anything about causation. If it could, you really could state that ice cream eating kills by drowning.


And the headlines would read "ICE CREAM KILLS"
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  #12   ^
Old Tue, Jul-05-16, 11:47
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
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Plan: P:E/DDF
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Quote:
The conclusion, according to the group, is that pasta is a healthy portion of a balanced Mediterranean Diet that doesn't cause weight gain. What would we expect from a study "partially supported by Barilla?" Thank goodness! All is safe and right with the world, because without pasta, where would we be??? Barilla is making health foods!!!


Thanks Rob for ferreting out that information with Google translate.
The translation used for the study in Nature was slightly different, it reads:
The authors declare no conflict of interest. ...By the same means they took a positive association of grams of pasta to weight and changed it to a negative.

The study is good for one thing...it is providing amusement around the world. Ivor Cummins wrote "Eating more Pasta makes you SLIMMER ! Who are these guys? #LCHF
Oh God. Latest internet messing is this study, sent on to me by a few questioners. I don't have time to analyse these epidemiological bits of bias-fluff. What the hell though - I had a very quick look."

http://www.thefatemperor.com/blog/2...these-guys-lchf

Last edited by JEY100 : Tue, Jul-05-16 at 13:03.
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  #13   ^
Old Tue, Jul-05-16, 17:20
Bonnie OFS Bonnie OFS is offline
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Sophia Loren said, "Everything you see I owe to spaghetti." I don't think she ate spaghetti like I used to eat it.
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  #14   ^
Old Wed, Jul-06-16, 05:23
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WereBear WereBear is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonnie OFS
Sophia Loren said, "Everything you see I owe to spaghetti." I don't think she ate spaghetti like I used to eat it.


Ms. Loren was famously nicknamed "beanpole" in her neighborhood growing up. I think she was referring to her curves.
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  #15   ^
Old Wed, Jul-06-16, 07:56
Bonnie OFS Bonnie OFS is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBear
Ms. Loren was famously nicknamed "beanpole" in her neighborhood growing up. I think she was referring to her curves.


I've got curves, too, but not in the same places.
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