I think the issue is control, it's not about food or what is or is not healthy or ethical. Just like anorexia, anorexia is about control, how empowering it makes the person feel to be able to exert that control over what they're eating. If veganism were about what's healthy, then actual logic and fact would work. It's not, it's about how good it feels to the person to exert control over their diet. It's empowering.

And I've heard that chickens are about as brainless as a cockroach.

I had a young boss when I was 27 who was listening in on a conversation between a Chinese coworker and myself (he shamelessly played favorites and was fascinated with her - not in an inappropriate way, but just in a "teacher's pet" manner) when we were comparing shopping in the open air marketplace in Beijing compared to our supermarkets. Like everything else, she saw pluses and minuses. She missed getting fresh chicken, for example. He was shocked that she didn't consider our chicken 'fresh'. When he realized she meant that she never saw it alive before it was dead, he was disgusted and frankly, disappointed in his pet employee.
I reminded him that many of us are just one generation away from having contact with our food when it was on the hoof. He sneered at the concept and said "Not MY parents! They lived in town". Like it was some kind of character issue. Pffffttthhh! No one liked him as a boss. And the Chinese girl didn't respect him.

That's actually how I feel when I get back to eating right, after going off the LC reservation. When I go back to drive-through fast food and desserts, it starts by my making a choice that is born in rebellion when I get tired of my body's demands controlling my desires. Then, I feel out of control when I want to quit eating food that makes me feel bad (not physically, but emotionally when I see my reflections and my clothes don't fit). Forcing myself back off of sugars makes me again feel in control. I guess I'm lucky I'm not bulimic.

Oh, I wouldn't say that. I am often amazed at just how much personality my Girls have, despite their small brains.

Yeah, I hear they are very fun pets.

So true! I was an ovo-lacto vegetarian for 4 years in the early-mid seventies. I lived with 2 other people, one also vegetarian, in a roach-infested apartment near campus. In the evenings, we would turn out the lights in the kitchen, then 30 minutes later turn them back on and ambush the roaches, swatting them with newspapers and heavy objects (no insecticide for us).

I'd never thought of the irony of it all till you mentioned it.

CallMeAnn: The boss who sneered, "Not MY parents! They lived in town," reminds me of someone my husband used to mention -- a man who was in grad school before he found out where milk comes from.

He was so ridiculous. Really childish.

I'm an omnivore and I'm a speciesist on what I kill or have killed in my name.

Roaches, black widow spiders in my house hopefully they won't know what hit them.

I'll let wasps, other spiders, and the like out. A clear cup and a piece of cardboard is enough to set them free unharmed. We had a hole in the screen in our porch a number of years ago. It took over a month to get someone out to re-screen it. A wasp used to get in almost daily, and it learned that if the clear cup came towards it, all it had to do was fly into the cup and it would be set free. Not so stupid methinks.

Mosquitoes anywhere are fair game.

I don't eat lobsters because I feel they are being tortured in that tank with their claws taped. If caught fresh it's different. And I can't put a crab into a pot of boiling water.

It's just me, I'm not making judgement on those who differ.

I don't eat chicken because the arachadonic acid content isn't good for bursitis or arthritis - very inflammatory. But if I did, I'd choose free range. I hate to think about the bird spending its life in a cage. I know free range isn't utopia for the bird, but it's better anyway.

As far as taking the life of the cow or pig, that bothers me not. Most are put to death quickly. I've seen films. I've caught fish that suffered longer on the dock or in the boat.

Plus, in a way, the omnivores gave that cow or pig a life. Not many would be born if they were only pets. And most get to live a fear free life until the end. I've seen herds of beef on the grassland, and they don't look stressed to me. So thanks to people like me, they get to be born and laze around on the lawn all day.

I don't know any carnivores.

I know 3 vegans.

Everybody else is an omnivore. Including those lacto types.

Omnivore: an animal that eats both animal and vegetable substances.

Also I think that one diet isn't the best for everyone, so comparing vegans to gf people will not produce meaningful results.

The old proverb applies: One man's meat is another man's poison. (pardon the sexist pronoun - but that's the proverb)

Bob

Well, also from Wiki, we got this from the link to alpha-gal:

The immune system recognizes it. It recognizes it when it enters the bloodstream from that tick's bite. But if there's an allergic reaction to meat when we eat it, it also recognizes it before it enters the bloodstream. So, the allergy cannot be solely attributed to alpha-gal alone, there must be some other substance that first enters the bloodstream to cause the initial immune response, but then remains in the bloodstream or tissues to cause further immune response that does not otherwise occur before the initial tick bite. Maybe the substance that remains is a bacteria or virus or some other live pathogen that reacts to alpha-gal, and it is this reaction that triggers the allergic immune response. At first I thought alpha-gal would need to enter the bloodstream from the gut to cause the reaction, but it's not necessary if the live pathogen has infected the gut tissue. Its reaction to alpha-gal would propagate on both sides of its cell host, so both the gut and the bloodstream.

There's this idea that a substance or a cell does not need to be the primary target for the immune system to fight it. With MS for example when treated with antibiotics in some protocols, liver cells can be destroyed. One possibility is that the antibiotics destroy those cells directly, but the other more likely possibility is that the liver cells are infected with the pathogens, and when the antibiotics reach them, they destroy the pathogen and this in turn causes the liver cells to suicide. Anyways, for alpha-gal, if the immune system can't recognize the pathogen directly, it could still fight it if it infected tissues and if it reacted to alpha-gal and if the immune system recognized this reaction. Well, it does recognize alpha-gal, it does fight it, but somehow it does it to the detriment of the host after the initial tick bite, and to the benefit of the host before the initial tick bite. Something's different, and it's not the immune system.

"Pretend vegetarian". Lol! I love you man. In a platonic way, I mean. I often hear veggies say "meatatarian", as if that's all they eat. So I guess it's no wonder they call themselves vegetarian as if that's all they eat.

Most of us are omnivores. Even the pretend vegetarians.

But many of us (myself included) are picky eaters. I pick what I think is good for me out of all the foods that I like the taste of.

If a person picks plants, eggs, and dairy, they are not a vegetarian, but simply a picky eater.

I have a vegan friend who wholeheartedly agrees with me.

And I don't know any carnivores, although I'm sure there might be some.

Anybody out there a carnivore? (eat zero plant based food)

Bob

I've been trying to talk myself into eating insects for years now, without success. But we now have a Grasshopper Festival over in Republic. I wasn't able to go last year, but this year I will. And I WILL eat at least one grasshopper!

Good for you - I'm not that brave.