Hah! The lack of the clear plastic and white styrofoam tray syndrome. It's not food without them!

I don't think all vegans are like that, but some definitely are.

On the other hand, those cows and pigs would not have any life at all if we weren't raising them for food. They would be extinct by now.

So I thank each cow or pig that I eat for giving it's life for me, and I know that my being an omnivore gave it a life.

Florida used to be a big beef producing state (second to Texas when I was a child). I've seen the herds of steer grazing on the grass without a care in the world. No fear of predators because the wolves are not in Florida and the Panther is almost extinct.

Then they get sent to the feed lots, where they gorge themselves on corn (I don't agree with that practice, but for them it's like living in an ice cream store).

Then the walk through the labyrinth that thanks to Temple Grandin is designed not to scare them in any way until the get to the end where they are instantly killed, they seem to die before they know what hit them. If there is pain, it's probably just an instant. And the next steer on the line doesn't get to see the first one getting killed.

I'd say we provided a pretty good life for the animals, and without us, they wouldn't have had a life at all.

Lobsters on the other hand I don't eat. I don't mind eating meat, but I don't want to torture the animal first. Seeing dozens of lobsters piled up in a tank with their claws in bondage just makes me sad.

I do squash mosquitoes and will aggressively chase them down.

And the only vegetarians in my book are vegans.

Eggs? Milk? Fish? What plant did that grow on?

Bob

They are not vegetarians if they eat fish, eggs, and/or milk.

They are just picky eaters who want to elevate themselves into the vegetarian class.

Milk? Fish? Eggs? What vegetable did they grow on?

I have a vegan friend (she cooks meat for her husband) and I told her vegans are the only vegetarians, after all, what plant did that glass of milk grow on? and I got the biggest grin and two thumbs up.

Bob

I've killed and cleaned my own food, but it was exclusively fish.

I don't know how to kill and clean a mammal, so I wouldn't try it.

Bob

My grandmother put fresh chicken on the table, if you know what I mean.

As an animal rights activist, I think it makes the most sense to push for humane farming, as outlined by Bob, above. We aren't going to eliminate meat from the human diet. It's been handed out by lords to keep their serfs going. It's been shown a vegan diet will not allow normal development of a fetus, infant, or child. It's been so vital people would risk death poaching. It is what our hormones are made of.

B12.

Oh yeah, back in the day I've cleaned fish myself, so I guess I win the internets. ;-) I also routinely butcher whole chickens (supermarket variety). So I'm not entirely unaccustomed to the process. However, the actual killing of a bird I haven't done. I would simply to be less ignorant about the process.

https://www.vegsoc.org/sslpage.aspx?pid=508
I know the term vegetarian is used loosely, but I'm pretty sure they're allowed animal products, just not the actual animal.

Vegans won't eat anything that comes from an animal, although presumably they nurse their young.

When I tried it in the '80's, it was a "no meat" situation, including seafood.

Now, some health outlets are pressing oysters into service, since they have no nervous system... yet have vital nutrients vegan diets lack.

I understand the moral imperative! When I tried vegetarian, it took mere months for it to have bad effects on my health. And that wasn't the only reason I bailed... they were starting to get stricter, and demanding few animal products, and I was limping along with eggs and cheese.

But back then, books were put together with animal glue. And I can't give that up. (Now, they have a dodge )

It just does not line up with reality.

Donald Watson, founder of the Vegan Society, coined the word “vegan” in 1944 as a statement against vegetarians who ate dairy products. He took the first and last letters of the word vegetarian to create his orthodox version of vegetarian. And back then, dairy was the only unorthodox thing they were eating.

I was an ovo-lacto-pesco "vegetarian" in the 80s too, back before I learned that PETA was behind most of the "health" research I was reading. That's what turned me from chubby to obese. So I became a low-fat vegan for nearly 2-yrs in the 90s and very careful to get B12 and adequate protein, but things got worse and I developed all sorts of allergies that I never had before, and symptoms shared with MS, fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue, lupus ...
Then I got stuck on a ranch and the only things to eat were salad and perfectly cooked prime rib. So I had to cave in and eat the beef to have enough energy. A couple hours later I found that I felt fantastic for the first time in ~20 yrs and became a born-again carnivore (not totally orthodox since I eat some nuts, seeds & vegs).

We've done it and it's really not all that different. I find it less intimidating than fish, actually. I have not done any large mammals (still waiting on that deer!) but we've done small game - groundhog, squirrel and also ducks and chickens. I think it's an important thing to do just to really understand where food comes from.

How fortuitous that you were placed in a situation where you had to find out just what you had been missing.

I recently read The Meat Fix which is about a vegan man with terrible IBS who was cured from his first meal containing meat. He describes a similar reaction. And he's never looked back.

We have the teeth of an omnivore, we have the digestive enzymes of an omnivore and we have the alimentary canal of an omnivore. To be a vegan is to deny your human nature and needs. Of course, if that's what you want to do, it's your right to do so.

Just don't torture the animals. Get the lobsters out of the crowded tanks and get the chickens out of those tiny cages.

Bob

IMHO that's an abuse of the language.

OK, so I'm a vegetarian - lacto - ovo - fisho - porko - beefo

Don't laugh, it's only two steps further than we are now.

Sorry, if you eat any animal products at all, you are not a vegetarian or even a vegetarian wanna be - but a pretend vegetarian.

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it

Bob

I wouldn't mind doing it, as long as someone showed me how to do it properly. I've I'm going to kill the beast to eat it, I don't want to waste the flesh by spoiling it in some way that I'm not aware of.

My father showed me the proper way to clean fish. And fresh fish, caught, cleaned, breaded and fried the same day is the best (especially if it's snook)

Bob

Another thing for vegans to think about.

The carnivores and omnivores are on this earth keeping the herbivores in control. We are the defenders of the plant kingdom.

In the Galapagos islands, where the iguanas have no natural predators, they ate and multiplied. Since there were no predators to keep their numbers in check, they ate all the available food on their island. Every bit. 100%.

So they turned to eating seaweed that washed up on the shore and was in the shallow water. Pretty soon they ate that up. So they had to swim deeper and deeper in the cold water.

Now their numbers are checked. If you can't hold your breath long enough to swim deep enough to get to the limit, and if you can't warm your body temperature up enough basking on the rock when you get your bite of seaweed. You die of starvation.

If all the animals on entire land mass of the planet were vegans, there would be no plant life left on the planet, and we would run out of oxygen before we got to the point where the seaweed was gone.

Take a lesson from the marine iguana. The ecosystem needs herbivores and predators.

Bob