Blood pressure question / potassium : Nutrition & Supplements Forum : Active Low-Carber Forums

#16 ^

Wed, Nov-11-15, 18:09

Merpig

Senior Member

Posts: 7,582

Plan: EF/Fung IDM/keto
Stats: 375/225.4/175 Female 66.5 inches

BF:
Progress: 75%

Location: NE Florida

Quote:

Originally Posted by MickiSue

Is it possible that you can learn some biofeedback techniques to deal with seeing white coats? It's not like your dentist will be taking your BP when you walk into the office.

No? My dentist does. I have found norhing that helps with white coat, and I have SUPER high readings at the doctor's office. We're talking numbers like 200/100.

Had to see a doctor a few months ago. I do monitor my BP at home. That morning my BP was 114/73. Within 30 minutes of calling the doctor to make an appointment it was up to 160/90. By the time I walked out of the house to go to the doctor it was 195/99. It takes a long time to go back down also. Not back down to 120/80 sort of numbers until the next day ~ one more reason I hate to see doctors as I don't want to be on meds, and my numbers are great as long as not at the doctor or dentist.

I do find hibiscus tea really helps keep my numbers good at home, but does nothing if I have too see a doctor.

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#17 ^

Thu, Nov-12-15, 00:41

Meme#1

Senior Member

Posts: 12,456

Plan: Atkins DANDR
Stats: 210/194/160 Female 5'4"

BF:
Progress: 32%

Location: Texas

Quote:

Originally Posted by cotonpal

Here is what Malcolm Kendrick has to say about potassium:

http://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2013/0...visible-friend/

I've been supplementing with potassium for several years for the same reason that you have, on a low carb diet it seems hard to get adequate potassium. No matter what type of potassium you take, each pill will be only 3% of the RDA so I decided to take 6 pills a day, still only 18% of RDA. Dr Eades of Protein Power recommended potassium supplementation:

"Potassium is linked to sodium. If you lose a lot of sodium through the diuretic effect of the low-carb diet, you’ll ultimately lose a lot of potassium as well. Keeping your sodium intake up as mentioned above will help preserve your potassium as well. And keeping your potassium levels up helps to ensure that you don’t lose a lot of lean muscle mass during your weight loss. Plus, just as with sodium, adequate potassium prevents cramping and fatigue.

You can replace your potassium by taking potassium supplements. In our clinical practice, we gave all patients starting the low-carb diet a prescription for potassium. You can get the same dosage by taking four to five of the over-the-counter 99 mg potassium supplements you can purchase at any health food or natural grocery store.

There are a couple of prescription medicines that you’ve got to be aware of if you markedly increase your potassium intake, so if you’re on blood pressure medicines, ask your doctor if it’s okay for you to take potassium."

I use potassium citrate and have had no ill effects. Whether or not it has helped is hard to say but my blood pressure after many years of being "borderline high" is now in the normal range but I have no way of knowing if the potassium has had anything to do with that.

Jean

Cottenpal, I think you have the best answer and the link was very informative also. We need supplementation on this WOE.
I have been taking a prescription potassium extended release tab once a day and my BP is perfect.
It's the equivalent of about 750mg

#18 ^

Thu, Nov-12-15, 09:39

jschwab

Senior Member

Posts: 6,378

Plan: Atkins72/Paleo/NoGrain/IF
Stats: 285/220/200 Female 5 feet 5.5 inches

BF:
Progress: 76%

One thing you could do is what I did - enroll in a study for BP. They will definitely take your blood pressure correctly. My BP under study conditions was average 117/67. It suddenly dropped when I stopped drinking coffee after running 130/80-140/90 for about 8 years. I had thought it going up was genetic and inevitable and I was really surprised to see it drop. I'd like to be back at my old 100/60 but I'm happy with this.

#19 ^

Fri, Nov-13-15, 07:07

MickiSue

Senior Member

Posts: 8,006

Plan: Atkins
Stats: 189/148.6/145 Female 5' 5"

BF:36%/28%/25%
Progress: 92%

Location: Twin Cities, MN

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merpig

I do find hibiscus tea really helps keep my numbers good at home, but does nothing if I have too see a doctor.

Debbie, that so sucks. I wonder if at least a big part of white coat syndrome is caused by the condescension with which so many doctors treat people who are overweight? To know that the person I needed to help me was also someone who, most likely, would be rude to me, would increase my anxiety as well as my BP, I am sure.

Because I do have a background in healthcare, I dealt, when very young, with rude doctors (worked in labor and delivery, and most of the OBs back then, nearly all male, had patients who worshipped them) and needed to learn, ASAP, how to remain professional without being subservient to them. It's helped me all my life. My POV, whenever I see a doctor, is that we're in this together to figure out the best way to improve my health. If they are not onboard with that, I can always find another doctor.

#20 ^

Fri, Nov-13-15, 08:52

Whited

Senior Member

Posts: 299

Plan: Very Low Carb
Stats: 312/235/185 Male 66 inches

BF:
Progress: 61%

Location: Missouri

My BP is still ruunning about 160 over 100. Weirdly my blood sugars are below normal too. Normally they're about 80 or so when waking. Now they're 64. (Might be the hypertension) The other day they were 77 2 and 1/2 hours after eating which is unusual. Also my body temp. is 97.1 (usually 98.6). Makes me wonder if its not hypothyrodism.

A couple of time this week my BP went back to normal. An example last evening it dropped to 138 / 88 and then my blood sugars were normal.

I dread going to the doctor because they have about 5 minutes to hear all this and they will just give out a couple of BP meds and be done with it. I'd like to get to the root of it but in a 5 to 10 minute appointment its probably not going to happen. I took BP at the doctor's office the other evening. I had riden my bike up there and it read 168 over 101 -- so my wrist meter is pretty good as you have to account for some rise due to not sitting and excercising a bit. They didn't have me wait even though I said I had ridden my bike there. I asked the nurse if that was stage two hypertension and she said she didn't know what that meant.

The side affects I fear on blood pressure medications are weight gain and increase in blood sugars. 160 over 100 still isn't emergency level but I wonder how long I can sustaiin that without damage. Also my dentist takes BP right away and it will be so high I can't have work done. Mine is a phobia (not about pain but about being held down) so its hard to overcome.

Last edited by Whited : Sat, Nov-14-15 at 08:29.

#21 ^

Sun, Nov-15-15, 16:45

Whited

Senior Member

Posts: 299

Plan: Very Low Carb
Stats: 312/235/185 Male 66 inches

BF:
Progress: 61%

Location: Missouri

Weird -- my body temp dropped by a degree (lowest reading was 96.9). mostly 97.1 or 97.5 -- normal for me is 98.6

Makes me wonder if its and infection (some say it can lower your temp as well as raise it) or just a change in metabolism or hypotyroidism.

maybe all coincedence though.

Doctor will say its the diabetes but for the past year my blood sugars have been in the normal range.

Last edited by Whited : Sun, Nov-15-15 at 18:51.

#22 ^

Sat, Nov-21-15, 23:25

Whited

Senior Member

Posts: 299

Plan: Very Low Carb
Stats: 312/235/185 Male 66 inches

BF:
Progress: 61%

Location: Missouri

Just an update -- I went to the doctor the other day of course he said I should be on a prescription medication.

He said he was evidence based and I asked him if he's ever heard of Welch's book "Overdiagnosed" and of course he hadn't. I don't think he agrees with Welch that 140/90 is ok for someone my age (I'm 58).

I'm still running about 160/100 some (but not all) of the time. He told me to check it a couple of times a week for two weeks and then come get medication if not lower than135/85. I asked if it wouldn't be better to check 3 or 4 times a day but he said no need, just twice a week for two weeks.

I'd listen to any ideas any of you have but I think I'm going to up my excercise a bit (usually helps the BP in the short run already) while drinking Hibiscus tea 2 or maybe even 3 times a day and adding Hawthorn Berry (along with the supplements I'm already taking).

Then if in a month or so its averaging 160/100 I might go ahead and get some drugs, as much as I hate to. (I'd REALLY rather not but I guess that is pretty high and it is hard to know what to do)

Thanks for your input and if you have any other ideas please don't hesitate to share.

Dennis

Last edited by Whited : Sat, Nov-21-15 at 23:35.

#23 ^

Sun, Nov-22-15, 00:30

Meme#1

Senior Member

Posts: 12,456

Plan: Atkins DANDR
Stats: 210/194/160 Female 5'4"

BF:
Progress: 32%

Location: Texas

I have read many times on this forum that loosing weight has a great effect on lowering blood pressure.

#24 ^

Sun, Nov-22-15, 03:33

cotonpal

Senior Member

Posts: 5,314

Plan: very low carb real food
Stats: 245/125/135 Female 62

BF:
Progress: 109%

Location: Vermont

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whited

He said he was evidence based and I asked him if he's ever heard of Welch's book "Overdiagnosed" and of course he hadn't.

I have come to hate that term "evidence based" as if the evidence that these medical guidelines are based on is all factual and not to be questioned. We know differently. I wish I had some words of wisdom for you but unfortunately I don't. It can be hard to know what to do, especially if you are going against the grain.

Jean

#25 ^

Sun, Nov-22-15, 05:00

JEY100 JEY100 is offline

To Good Health!

Posts: 13,442

Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"

BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%

Location: NC

Have you considered all the suggestions in Dr Eenfedlt's blood pressure article? Maybe there are some items that you are taking more of because you are back teaching? Do you drink More coffee? Alcohol?, take painkillers? Not as much exercise, have you had your Vitamin D level checked? First I'd go through the foods and lifestyle that has changed since your schedule changed. Tell your students to stop stressing you out and take up meditation

Also since you seem to take a lot of supplements or herbal remedies, make sure that none of them have the side effect of higher BP . I recently realized that I dropped a supplement, chromium, that might have been having benefit on my BG all along, but I didn't pay close enough attention to results vs exactly what doses I was taking.

Last edited by JEY100 : Sun, Nov-22-15 at 05:06.

#26 ^

Sun, Nov-22-15, 06:17

teaser

Senior Member

Posts: 15,075

Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches

BF:
Progress: 104%

Location: Ontario

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25421976

Just a thought, but raising your potassium intake through an increase in lower carb veggies would raise your nitrate intake as well, that might plausibly help to lower your blood pressure.

Quote:

Dietary nitrate provides sustained blood pressure lowering in hypertensive patients: a randomized, phase 2, double-blind, placebo-controlled study.
Kapil V1, Khambata RS1, Robertson A1, Caulfield MJ1, Ahluwalia A2.
Author information
Abstract
Single dose administration of dietary inorganic nitrate acutely reduces blood pressure (BP) in normotensive healthy volunteers, via bioconversion to the vasodilator nitric oxide. We assessed whether dietary nitrate might provide sustained BP lowering in patients with hypertension. We randomly assigned 68 patients with hypertension in a double-blind, placebo-controlled clinical trial to receive daily dietary supplementation for 4 weeks with either dietary nitrate (250 mL daily, as beetroot juice) or a placebo (250 mL daily, as nitrate-free beetroot juice) after a 2-week run-in period and followed by a 2-week washout. We performed stratified randomization of drug-naive (n=34) and treated (n=34) patients with hypertension aged 18 to 85 years. The primary end point was change in clinic, ambulatory, and home BP compared with placebo. Daily supplementation with dietary nitrate was associated with reduction in BP measured by 3 different methods. Mean (95% confidence interval) reduction in clinic BP was 7.7/2.4 mm Hg (3.6-11.8/0.0-4.9, P<0.001 and P=0.050). Twenty-four-hour ambulatory BP was reduced by 7.7/5.2 mm Hg (4.1-11.2/2.7-7.7, P<0.001 for both). Home BP was reduced by 8.1/3.8 mm Hg (3.8-12.4/0.7-6.9, P<0.001 and P<0.01) with no evidence of tachyphylaxis over the 4-week intervention period. Endothelial function improved by ≈20% (P<0.001), and arterial stiffness was reduced by 0.59 m/s (0.24-0.93; P<0.01) after dietary nitrate consumption with no change after placebo. The intervention was well tolerated. This is the first evidence of durable BP reduction with dietary nitrate supplementation in a relevant patient group. These findings suggest a role for dietary nitrate as an affordable, readily-available, adjunctive treatment in the management of patients with hypertension (funded by The British Heart Foundation).

Beet juice is used in the study, but celery is king probably for increasing nitrate intake without bringing up carbs much.

#27 ^

Sun, Nov-22-15, 09:42

jschwab

Senior Member

Posts: 6,378

Plan: Atkins72/Paleo/NoGrain/IF
Stats: 285/220/200 Female 5 feet 5.5 inches

BF:
Progress: 76%

Another remedy I have been told works quite well is acupuncture. You might want to try it. Apparently, they can tell if it will work right away, so you don't have to invest a lot of time in it if it doesn't.

You are so close to goal, I would think losing weight might not have a huge effect. In me, my blood pressure went up at my lowest adult weight and stuck there, It came down when I was much heavier, so it's not always tied to weight.

#28 ^

Sun, Nov-22-15, 10:09

Liz53

Senior Member

Posts: 6,140

Plan: Mostly Fung/IDM
Stats: 165/138.4/135 Female 63

BF:???/better/???
Progress: 89%

Location: Washington state

Quote:

Originally Posted by jschwab

You are so close to goal, I would think losing weight might not have a huge effect. In me, my blood pressure went up at my lowest adult weight and stuck there, It came down when I was much heavier, so it's not always tied to weight.

And, actually, Westman et al found that dropping carbs, in the absence of losing weight, could lower blood pressure. But that doesn't seem to be the case for you, Dennis, assuming (as I do) that you continue to keep carbs low to control your diabetes.

Are you drinking more alcohol than you did for a while? That can raise BP...oh I see JEY covered that in a list of items above. I hope you can get to the bottom of this.

#29 ^

Sun, Nov-22-15, 13:02

jschwab

Senior Member

Posts: 6,378

Plan: Atkins72/Paleo/NoGrain/IF
Stats: 285/220/200 Female 5 feet 5.5 inches

BF:
Progress: 76%

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liz53

Yes, that was definitely not the case for me! My lowest adult BP was in the years I was eating the worst carbs - cakes and breads and all. When I went low carb it skyrocketed but I don't think it was related. It also coincided with my years of pregnancies coming to an end. My mother has very uncontrolled blood pressure (it's better now) so it's possible that it might have been even worse if I hadn't gone low carb.

#30 ^

Sun, Nov-22-15, 13:35

Whited

Senior Member

Posts: 299

Plan: Very Low Carb
Stats: 312/235/185 Male 66 inches

BF:
Progress: 61%

Location: Missouri

Thanks all -- I don't drink coffee or alchohol (might start drinking some hard stuff if my BP keeps rising

) but was drinking green tea every other day in fasting. I went back to eating two meals a day for now so I suspended the green tea for the time being. I do eat some chocolate but I also did that last summer when BP was lower. I am now eating chia seeds in the muffin but not every day but I don't think chia seeds raise BP.

As far as my Vit. D, I have taken 5,000IU D3 (1X daily) for awhile now. On my last lipid profile my calcium was 8.5 on a scale of 8.5 - 10.1. I could take another D3 in the evening I suppose. I don't think the doctor will agree to me getting my D checked as I asked him if he'd ok an electrolite profile and he said I didn't need it.

Janet, teenagers EXIST to annoy and stress out the teacher, I doubt if they will comply to a request to take it easy

I don't beieve I'm under undo stress but you never know.

I have been riding my recumbent trike a bit latley but I recently started walking again too which is probably better excercise.

If I had the financial resources I'd hook up with a good alternative therepy doctor but that's probably not going to happen.

I would like to get to the root of the BP rise but its hard when all you have are mainstream doctors and you have to get permission to get even basic blood work done.

Thanks for all the advice -- maybe something will click.

Dennis