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  #1   ^
Old Wed, Sep-09-15, 19:24
Dodger's Avatar
Dodger Dodger is offline
Posts: 8,758
 
Plan: Paleoish/Keto
Stats: 225/167/175 Male 71.5 inches
BF:18%
Progress: 116%
Location: Longmont, Colorado
Default Calorie Restriction May Not Work Afterall

There has been quite a bit of hoopla, in the last few years, about the life-extending benefits of calorie restriction. Better data seems to show that it may be more likely to reduce lifespan than increase it.

Quote:
... found that calorie restriction extends lifespan in a subset of strains, but actually shortens lifespan in an even larger subset ...


http://www.longevityreporter.org/bl...rie-restriction
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  #2   ^
Old Thu, Sep-10-15, 10:07
bkloots's Avatar
bkloots bkloots is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 10,147
 
Plan: LC--Atkins
Stats: 195/162/150 Female 62in
BF:
Progress: 73%
Location: Kansas City, MO
Default

Let's see. Which experimental animal produces the results I should heed: mouse...monkey...microbe...me.

Hmmmm. Think I'll go with ME. In that case, calorie restriction sucks. (Scientific term for "not demonstrated to be effective or sustainable").

My favorite hobby is reading "the latest research" (or more likely the reports on it from my favorite commentators) on weight management. However, I've simplified my life by not counting calories, and it seems to be going well. When I die (I'll try to let ya'll know) it won't be about CR.

Thanks for the link.
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  #3   ^
Old Thu, Sep-10-15, 13:28
MickiSue MickiSue is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 8,006
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 189/148.6/145 Female 5' 5"
BF:36%/28%/25%
Progress: 92%
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Default

One of the most telling pieces of data that I've seen (can't remember where in order to cite it) is that for the elderly, being moderately overweight (BMI >25, but not much) leads to a greater chance at a longer life.
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  #4   ^
Old Thu, Sep-10-15, 13:31
bkloots's Avatar
bkloots bkloots is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 10,147
 
Plan: LC--Atkins
Stats: 195/162/150 Female 62in
BF:
Progress: 73%
Location: Kansas City, MO
Default

Quote:
for the elderly
As my 69th birthday is rapidly approaching, I often wonder, "What is this 'elderly' and when does it start?" The other day, I passed up a Senior parking space because, well, that wouldn't be me, right?
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  #5   ^
Old Thu, Sep-10-15, 14:00
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 15,075
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
Default

Maybe the higher BMI has to do with lean mass? But fat mass can help to preserve lean mass, so there'd be that, as well.
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  #6   ^
Old Thu, Sep-10-15, 14:24
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 15,075
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
Default

Quote:
Can we explain the differences?

The 2012 study fed the control group a diet low in sugar, including fish oil and antioxidants. Some scientists have suggested that because the control group had a moderate diet anyway, they may have also been slightly calorie restricted. Overall health in both groups was good, and even the control group lived longer on average than expected.

The 2014 team was less fussy with the control group's diet, giving them more sugar and a higher calorie intake. Some people argue they only found more encouraging results because the control group was eating more of a 'Western' diet and were less healthy in comparison.


I think this is key. But the monkeys will have been fed the same diet--one group the Western diet ad-lib, the other the same high-sugar diet, but restricted.

I wonder if the strains of mice that respond positively to calorie restriction aren't the ones most prone to develop elements of the metabolic syndrome, diabetes, etc.? Making calorie restriction effective if you had planned on eating a diabetes-inducing diet, and if you were prone to developing insulin resistance etc.
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  #7   ^
Old Thu, Sep-10-15, 15:40
Dodger's Avatar
Dodger Dodger is offline
Posts: 8,758
 
Plan: Paleoish/Keto
Stats: 225/167/175 Male 71.5 inches
BF:18%
Progress: 116%
Location: Longmont, Colorado
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bkloots
As my 69th birthday is rapidly approaching, I often wonder, "What is this 'elderly' and when does it start?" The other day, I passed up a Senior parking space because, well, that wouldn't be me, right?
I'll be 69 in 5 weeks. I just got back from a 30+ mile bike ride with the temperature at 90.
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  #8   ^
Old Thu, Sep-10-15, 17:32
deirdra's Avatar
deirdra deirdra is offline
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Posts: 4,324
 
Plan: vLC/GF,CF,SF
Stats: 197/136/150 Female 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 130%
Location: Alberta
Default

I'll be 61 in 4 weeks and don't use senior parking, but do use 55+, 60+ senior discounts at a variety of stores - I feel I've earned them
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  #9   ^
Old Thu, Sep-10-15, 18:27
bkloots's Avatar
bkloots bkloots is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 10,147
 
Plan: LC--Atkins
Stats: 195/162/150 Female 62in
BF:
Progress: 73%
Location: Kansas City, MO
Default

Teaser, thank you for taking a serious look at the original post. I'm being flip with a subject that is in fact receiving scientific scrutiny.

That is, is "calorie restriction" a strategy for longevity?

The pesky issues of what constitutes "restriction" and "what kind of calories?" always seem to get in the way of a clean experimental model.

Since I don't approach my dietary choices as a scientist, I'm always thinking, "How cranky do I want to be in my svelte old age??" Calorie shmalorie! And yes, Deirdra, I love a discount!
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  #10   ^
Old Thu, Sep-10-15, 18:37
MickiSue MickiSue is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 8,006
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 189/148.6/145 Female 5' 5"
BF:36%/28%/25%
Progress: 92%
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Default

This wasn't where I read it, but here's an article from The Guardian about the study:

http://www.theguardian.com/society/...-mortality-risk

I'm on my way to that mystical "elderly" myself. I turn 65 in January, and the number of insurance companies who want me to join their "Medicare information talks" is astounding.

Since I'm perfectly capable of reading, both about Medicare, and about the offerings the insurance companies make for those on Medicare, I think I'll pass.

And if I really get confused (I worked in the life/health insurance field for 10 years), my son is a liaison at the Social Security Administration, and his job is to help confused people deal with their benefits.
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  #11   ^
Old Thu, Sep-10-15, 19:24
rightnow's Avatar
rightnow rightnow is offline
Every moment is NOW.
Posts: 23,064
 
Plan: LC (ketogenic)
Stats: 520/381/280 Female 66 inches
BF: Why yes it is.
Progress: 58%
Location: Ozarks USA
Default

I stumbled on this snippet of something I'd said to a friend on another private forum once, that this thread made me think of.

Quote:
This is very generalized (accuracy is loose, lol).

So: calories are bad!

They found that restricting protein had the same effect as CR, even if calories were the same.

So: calories are ok. Meat is bad!

Then they found that actually, just restricting the amino acid methionine had the same effect even if calories and protein were otherwise the same.

So: meat is ok. Muscle meats and eggs are bad!

Then they found that actually, just increasing the amino acid glycine had the same effect, even if calories and protein and methionine were the same.

So: Oh. So apparently we are chronically deficient in Glycine, which we'd get a lot more of (compared to others) if we ate like humans always have instead of how we eat the last century, especially the last 70 years.

(I feel like this is a nutrition science version of There was an old lady who swallowed a fly...)

... So in the end, this is a fabulous example of science and why making any decision about what's real always has to stand the test of time.

The CR studies had a point, as did the protein restriction studies, but it turned out it was something far more specific.

... I think in retrospect what nutrition science will teach us -- the hard way, sort of like being funny but only by accident -- is that "reductionism" is completely inappropriately applied to nutrition. Like all tools, and 'perspective' is a tool, there is a place for it; and not.


PJ
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  #12   ^
Old Fri, Sep-11-15, 10:40
Aradasky's Avatar
Aradasky Aradasky is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 10,116
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 199/000/000 Female 5"3'
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Southern California
Default

Great post PJ. I always wonder just how much longer are we supposed to live eating any which way we are told to eat for a longer life.

6 months?

I understand eating low carb for me because my body is metabolically challenged and diabetes can cause immediate problems, but what is a "longer life"?
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  #13   ^
Old Fri, Sep-11-15, 10:54
hysteria's Avatar
hysteria hysteria is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,106
 
Plan: General LC
Stats: 232/157.4/145 Female 5'6.5
BF:...getting lower
Progress: 86%
Location: Northern Virginia
Default

Have to admit it is great to see so many familiar LC'ers still around

So it's been a long while, but after 10 years of fooling around, being diagnosed hypothyroid and not being able to stick to LC alone (my own fault), I have lost 80 pounds and am 10 pounds from goal b/c of a physician-monitored (blood work every 12 weeks) calorie restricted (850 - 1,200), low carb diet program.

I am not here to argue or hock anything - all I want to point out is that imvho, one-size-does-not-fit-all.

Am I going to remain successful? Have I damaged myself (metabolism, etc...)? Idk - only time will tell. I know my blood work says I am healthy & I have come away from the edge of Type 2 diabetes - and my body feels better than it has in years.

I am starting preparations for phasing off and know I cannot return to the eating habits that ballooned me to 234 pounds last January. I plan to remain LCHF (thus I am nosing around the forum again ) and find my sweet spot for maintenance
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  #14   ^
Old Fri, Sep-11-15, 13:49
bkloots's Avatar
bkloots bkloots is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 10,147
 
Plan: LC--Atkins
Stats: 195/162/150 Female 62in
BF:
Progress: 73%
Location: Kansas City, MO
Default

Hello, Beth, and welcome back. Sounds like you've made quite a few strides in the right direction since your last Journal post in 2013.
Quote:
one-size-does-not-fit-all.
Totally agree with this, as most veterans at this site will. Finding the size that DOES fit is, well, a long journey. And there are always those meanderings off the road....sigh.

We're in the War Zone now, but as you can see, the topic has not produced much controversy. Just good conversation, which is one of the fun things about this forum. Stick around.

Best wishes.
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  #15   ^
Old Fri, Sep-11-15, 14:07
Aradasky's Avatar
Aradasky Aradasky is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 10,116
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 199/000/000 Female 5"3'
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Southern California
Default

I am so here for long term. My body worsk so well on VLC to zero and this forum has so much support and information.
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