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  #1   ^
Old Mon, Jul-20-15, 05:07
Benay's Avatar
Benay Benay is offline
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Posts: 337
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 202/179/175 Female 5 feet 5 inches
BF:
Progress: 85%
Default Atkins carb ladder and diverticulosis

In the NAFNY, the authors have a chart of the carb ladder on page 120.
1. foundation veggies, leafy greens, low carb veggies
2. Hi fat/lo carb dairy
3. Nuts and seeds
4. Berries, cherries and melon
etc.

For those of us with extensive diverticulosis, nuts and seeds and berries with seeds are off limits to prevent yet another bout of diverticulitis which might result in a bowel resection. Prevention.

Nut butters do not satisfy the crunch of a nut. Melons aren't as satisfying as berries for some reason and seem higher carb. Do you substitute celery for its crunch factor (filled either with creamed cheese or a nut butter)?

If anyone else out there also has extensive diverticulosis, how do/did you climb the carb ladder? Do you substitute nut butters for nuts and seeds? Do you focus on the melons? Do you get rid of the seeds in peppers, tomatoes and cucumbers before making a salad?

Or, do you simply ignore these rungs and go directly to the next rung?

I am in OWL looking to broaden my horizons without gaining and without pain.
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  #2   ^
Old Mon, Jul-20-15, 08:16
Liz53's Avatar
Liz53 Liz53 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,140
 
Plan: Mostly Fung/IDM
Stats: 165/138.4/135 Female 63
BF:???/better/???
Progress: 89%
Location: Washington state
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I don't have diverticulosis, so cannot address many of your questions, but Atkins, including NANY, is all about customizing it to your needs. If you cannot tolerate the foods on a particular rung for whatever reason, you may skip it. You can also put the rungs somewhat "out of order".

When I frequented another site, most people added another 5 g per day of foundation vegetables as their first rung of the ladder. Some next added berries and melons; others added nuts and seeds; others added cottage cheese or yogurt. Make Atkins work for your particular sensitivities.
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  #3   ^
Old Wed, Jul-22-15, 03:41
SilverEm SilverEm is offline
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Posts: 1,018
 
Plan: VLC Pastoral
Stats: 137/136/136 Female 67"
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Maintenance since 2001
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Hi, Benay. I don't have the same health challenge, but I avoid nuts, seeds, and fiber, so I use gelatin as the filler food in my food plan.

If it's of any interest to you, I posted some about using gelatin, in this thread in Kitchen Talk.

I hope you can find some safe foods you enjoy.
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  #4   ^
Old Wed, Jul-22-15, 04:30
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
To Good Health!
Posts: 10,263
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
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Celery is the go-to for crunch in induction. As you climb the carb ladder, and you use Net Carbs, other crunchy raw vegetables become doable. I've been on a jicama kick lately, and because near goal, have added carrots for fiber too (Dr Fung's plan does not view carrots as a sugar devil). You might even consider adding some of those gluten-free crackers found now in that section made of rice, ground flax (?) or ground nut flours (? Is it the product or the size of the nut that is the problem..I do not know about this, check with your doctor?)
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  #5   ^
Old Thu, Jul-23-15, 06:11
Benay's Avatar
Benay Benay is offline
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Posts: 337
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 202/179/175 Female 5 feet 5 inches
BF:
Progress: 85%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
Is it the product or the size of the nut that is the problem..I do not know about this, check with your doctor?)


Diverticulosis refers to the small bulging pockets that develop and line the large intestines as we age. Since everyone is different (that goes without saying), some people have none, some a few on the left side, others have them throughout the large bowel. The pockets also vary in size. Food can get 'stuck' in those pockets. This is especially true for people who suffer from constipation. No matter how long you chew, there will always be small 'chunks' of the nut that must pass through the colon with the possibility of getting 'caught' in a diverticula. Same with seeds. They stay put, cause friction, which causes inflammation and then infection which is very painful. This is now called 'diverticulitis.' Antibiotics are necessary to clear up the infection. (A friend had to have a bowel resection after eating too much popcorn at the movies. Too many of her diverticula had become infected.)

To prevent this process from starting, sufferers are told to avoid nuts and seeds which are the primary cause (along with things like popcorn) of the problem. So for people with diverticulosis the 2 rungs of the Atkins ladder to avoid are the berries, nuts and seeds.

So that is why I am asking what other people with diverticulosis do to adapt to the carb ladder -- other than just skipping those rungs. Personal experience, and adaptations based upon this experience, are what I am looking for.

Thanks.
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  #6   ^
Old Wed, Jul-29-15, 11:57
NewRuth's Avatar
NewRuth NewRuth is offline
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Posts: 2,656
 
Plan: LC gut healing
Stats: 302/285/165 Female 5'3"
BF:Irrelevant
Progress: 12%
Location: Heartland of the USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benay
Diverticulosis refers to the small bulging pockets that develop and line the large intestines as we age. Since everyone is different (that goes without saying), some people have none, some a few on the left side, others have them throughout the large bowel. The pockets also vary in size. Food can get 'stuck' in those pockets. This is especially true for people who suffer from constipation. No matter how long you chew, there will always be small 'chunks' of the nut that must pass through the colon with the possibility of getting 'caught' in a diverticula. Same with seeds. They stay put, cause friction, which causes inflammation and then infection which is very painful. This is now called 'diverticulitis.' Antibiotics are necessary to clear up the infection. (A friend had to have a bowel resection after eating too much popcorn at the movies. Too many of her diverticula had become infected.)

To prevent this process from starting, sufferers are told to avoid nuts and seeds which are the primary cause (along with things like popcorn) of the problem.
So for people with diverticulosis the 2 rungs of the Atkins ladder to avoid are the berries, nuts and seeds.


That's what people with diverticula are told.

I found this study interesting.

JAMA 2008
http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article...ticleid=1028647
Quote:
Context Patients with diverticular disease are frequently advised to avoid eating nuts, corn, popcorn, and seeds to reduce the risk of complications. However, there is little evidence to support this recommendation.

and from the Comments section -
Quote:
Data from this large prospective cohort of men followed up for 18 years indicate that frequent nut, corn, and popcorn consumption is not associated with an increased risk of diverticular complications. Indeed, nut and popcorn consumption appears to be inversely associated with the risk of diverticulitis independent of other known or potential risk factors, including age; body mass index; dietary fat, fiber, and red meat consumption; physical activity; cigarette smoking; and the use of nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs and acetaminophen. No associations were found between nut, corn, or popcorn consumption and diverticular bleeding.

To our knowledge, no prior study has examined the association between nut, corn, or popcorn consumption and diverticular complications. Nonetheless, in a recent survey of colorectal surgeons, 47% felt that patients with diverticular disease should avoid these foods.8

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3183923/
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  #7   ^
Old Thu, Jul-30-15, 04:55
Benay's Avatar
Benay Benay is offline
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Posts: 337
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 202/179/175 Female 5 feet 5 inches
BF:
Progress: 85%
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Thanks very much for this study, NewRuth. It is a head scratch-er. As with all other observational/epidemiological studies based upon patient reports of what they ate, I will take the findings under advisement. Although the report states a clinical trial is not necessary, that really is the only way to test this finding. Also, once again, a similar study of women is stated as not being necessary. I remember the days when most research was conducted on men and generalized to women on the assumption that women's anatomy and physiology were no different. Since more women than men suffer from constipation, a similar study would seem to be in order. For example, what did the Framingham nurses' study show--or did they not look at diverticulosis, nuts and seeds?
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  #8   ^
Old Sat, Feb-27-16, 23:19
katmeyster's Avatar
katmeyster katmeyster is offline
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Posts: 918
 
Plan: Keto (LCHFMP) + IF
Stats: 265/188/150 Female 61 inches
BF:Highest weight 290
Progress: 67%
Location: Las Cruces, New Mexico
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Does everybody who has diverticulitis know about aloe vera juice? I was having fairly severe symptoms, and tried cutting out nuts and seeds, etc. (no help) but then tried the aloe vera juice -- drink about 4 ounces every morning. It was a healing miracle, and thankfully has no carbs as I'm afraid to stop drinking it. I get mine from Wal-Mart.

I apologize if this is a well-known solution, but maybe doesn't work for everyone.
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  #9   ^
Old Sat, Feb-27-16, 23:42
Meme#1's Avatar
Meme#1 Meme#1 is offline
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Posts: 8,945
 
Plan: Atkins DANDR
Stats: 210/183/160 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 54%
Location: Texas
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I've never heard of that before, so thank you for sharing.
How bad was your diverticulitis when you began drinking the Aloe Vera juice?
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  #10   ^
Old Sun, Feb-28-16, 04:56
Benay's Avatar
Benay Benay is offline
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Posts: 337
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 202/179/175 Female 5 feet 5 inches
BF:
Progress: 85%
Smile Aloe vera juice

Quote:
Originally Posted by katmeyster
Does everybody who has diverticulitis know about aloe vera juice? I was having fairly severe symptoms, and tried cutting out nuts and seeds, etc. (no help) but then tried the aloe vera juice -- drink about 4 ounces every morning. It was a healing miracle, and thankfully has no carbs as I'm afraid to stop drinking it. I get mine from Wal-Mart.

I apologize if this is a well-known solution, but maybe doesn't work for everyone.


Thank you SO MUCH for sharing this little gem! No I had never heard of it before. Of course! Makes sense! Soothing! I will get a bottle today and start first thing in the morning. Available at Wal Mart? Great. Now I don't have to drive all over town to all the alternative health and food stores to find it.
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  #11   ^
Old Sun, Feb-28-16, 11:43
katmeyster's Avatar
katmeyster katmeyster is offline
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Posts: 918
 
Plan: Keto (LCHFMP) + IF
Stats: 265/188/150 Female 61 inches
BF:Highest weight 290
Progress: 67%
Location: Las Cruces, New Mexico
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Look in the pharmacy section -- sometimes on the bottom shelf because it's a big bottle. Don't get the flavored one. I put about 3 ounces in a glass, add water, and a couple of drops of liquid stevia.

I had severe pain in my lower left side after eating just about anything -- but much worse with spicy foods and nuts and seeds. I started out with a lot more aloe in order to start the healing, and now I'm on a "maintenance dose."

It's definitely worth trying -- it certainly can't hurt since it has no carbs and is inexpensive.
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  #12   ^
Old Sun, Feb-28-16, 12:08
Meme#1's Avatar
Meme#1 Meme#1 is offline
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Posts: 8,945
 
Plan: Atkins DANDR
Stats: 210/183/160 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 54%
Location: Texas
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So it's in the pharmacy section? I always thought that was to put on a sunburn but you can drink it too?
Going to buy some today.

Spicy like with red chili peppers almost killed me last week from having some hot and sour soup from a Chinese restaurant.

This doctor says low fiber is the way to go when in distress. No raw vegetables whatsoever. Only very well cooked vegetables because that makes them pre-digested so to speak. He said no salads either, too hard on the gut to digest...

Of course he is of the carb mind and recommended cream of wheat and that's not going to happen with me. I told him that my low-carb body would revolt if I ate carbs like that. I do fine with eggs and bacon for breakfast.
I've been eating crab legs and lobster which is on sale right now for $5.99, they must be in season. I dip it in butter with a spritz of lemon and it is so good with No problems whatsoever.

I usually love steaks, after all I'm in Texas for goodness sakes but right now, my body says no....
I've cooked some good soups with chicken, celery, onion, thyme, poultry seasoning, bay leaves and garlic but took all of the threads out of the celery first and chopped & cooked everything very well on low for several hours so that it was very easily digested (pre-digested). But I'm getting tired of eating that for a several weeks now because the pain has been really bad.
Do you either of you feel like you have the flu when you have this? When it first hit I slept for two days and I am still feeling physically sick as heck and very weak.

What are both of you eating?

Last edited by Meme#1 : Sun, Feb-28-16 at 13:54.
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  #13   ^
Old Sun, Feb-28-16, 12:52
Meme#1's Avatar
Meme#1 Meme#1 is offline
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Posts: 8,945
 
Plan: Atkins DANDR
Stats: 210/183/160 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 54%
Location: Texas
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Well, In the flash of a post DH is buying some Aloe Vera from Whole Foodsb for me as we speak. He called to confirm what they had.
Unflavored because the lady was trying to sell him some with fruit aka sugar, even though he said no sugar. I need stevia, I guess unless I can tolerate it straight in the water.
Does it taste like medicine? Oh well if it works I don't care, I will be indebted to you Kate....
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  #14   ^
Old Sun, Feb-28-16, 13:47
Meme#1's Avatar
Meme#1 Meme#1 is offline
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Posts: 8,945
 
Plan: Atkins DANDR
Stats: 210/183/160 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 54%
Location: Texas
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OK I down my first dose of Aloe, about 3 oz with about 5 oz of water, no sweetener and it wasn't bad at all.
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  #15   ^
Old Sun, Feb-28-16, 15:45
MickiSue MickiSue is offline
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Posts: 8,006
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 189/148.6/145 Female 5' 5"
BF:36%/28%/25%
Progress: 92%
Location: Twin Cities, MN
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Aloe to drink and aloe for your skin are different animals, Meme.

I drink some daily--have for years. I've never had diverticuli, but I used to have terrible acid reflux, which aloe helps with.

One of the lovely things about low carb is that it lessens the inflammation in the gut, as it does inflammation everywhere. But prior to LCHF, I could count on aloe to lessen it, as well.

The nutritional portrait of aloe is really pretty fascinating: it is chock full of nutrients, as well as being a potent digestive anti-inflammatory.

Sloan Kettering Cancer Institute in NYC gives it to their patients undergoing chemo/radiation, and it helps with the severe nausea so many people experience during those treatments.

I think of it, though, as soothing the "burn" in your gut, like the topical version does with burns on your skin.
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