Things are the same as ever: women/girls can't win. Between the "self acceptance at any size" message and the "you can never be too thin" message, the "be healthy" message gets muddled.

On the upside, so many more girls and young women are involved in all kinds of sports now. The winning U. S. women's soccer team is a case in point. I saw a picture in the newspaper this week of an 11-yr-old girl wearing her football pads. Whether it's athletic cheerleading or gymnastics or swimming or volleyball, etc. girls are no longer discouraged from exercising their competitive muscles.

I'm hoping information sources like That Sugar Movie (can't wait to see it!) will be a further eye-opener for everyone.

It's all about good health, not size.

I think the shame and feeling apart from others is more of a problem in the impact it has on a young girl's life.

It was inscribed early on that I was a fat girl and should try to hide it or cover it up. Recently saw a pic of myself at age 14 and I was wearing (in summer) a dark navy long-sleeved pantsuit that covered everything, with a scarf covering my "fat" neck -- standing next to a skinnier friend in miniskirt and halter top. But the thing is -- I wasn't fat anymore, maybe a size 11? And yet I had internalized the idea I had to cover up anyway. (I was much prettier than the friend too, though at the time she was always called the "cute one"!)

So I kind of applaud the young girls who don't want to be cheated out of pretty dresses, frilly stuff, etc. even if they look strange to my eyes. I wonder if their peers are critical of their look or if they accept it as normal now?

The other side of it though is, why are so many young girls of such increasingly large size? Probably because they're eating so much of sugar and grains that aren't good for their overall health -- and most importantly to my mind, no good for mental or emotional health and stability. Here we're all too aware of how carbage can affect our balance, I read over and over again here how going LC brings the reward of newfound mental clarity and more balanced emotions. The younger big girls may be experiencing much improved social acceptance, but how their diet may be affecting them in other ways is a big worry.

I 110% agree, I don't think anybody should wear horrible, out of season, blah tent/clothes. But everybody should work with what they have, and wear what is most flattering to them. And a pretty size 18 girl in a pretty size 12 dress is crazy to me. I know my mother use to tell me "a size too small will make you look two sizes bigger! And (ouch) she was right. And short-shorts, half-shirts or a tight/revealing dress that might be trendy or seen on the latest celebrity? I am truly befuddles as to WHY somebody would wear that if it so obviously horribly unflattering.

Maybe it's just me. Maybe it's not unflattering, it looks great and I'm just crazy and out of touch. Tailoring is in the eye of the beholder?

A lot of these styles require a certain body type and is unforgiving with other kinds. In addition, a lot of these things are fussed over and photoshopped so it's not like they are even flattering from all angles, in truth.

I am one of those who was made to wear black because it was slimming. I remember a special event at school where my mother made a new outfit all in black. It upset my teacher that I had to do that. And I was all of 11 years old, don't look good in black and wasn't obese.

On another topic, does anyone remember a WW recipe that called for latkes with a green bean topping? It called for mashing a slice of bread with an egg to make a latke and then blending green beans with something for the topping and then something else went on top of that. Forget the latke but I would appreciate the recipe of the green bean mix if anyone has it.

I don't remember the green bean topping, or a mock-latke; sounds like sort of like french toast. The recipes I remember making faithfully: blueberries and cottage cheese on a slice of bread, baked in oven for breakfast; tomato juice with a squeeze of lemon used as salad dressing over tuna; broiled canned button mushrooms (that was my after-school snack).

Tomato juice as salad dressing is really bad.

Posting on this thread and thinking about it, it occurs to me that the WW program in its early versions was dreamed up by people with no nutritional background at all, or mad scientists? The food choices and what was allowed/permitted just seem so arbitrary (aside from the obvious reduction in starch/carbs).

It's sad but some brides apparently want their bridesmaids to not look their best in order to make themselves appear more attractive in comparison - or so I was told at my own wedding. My best friend who was my maid of honour always wore the same hairstyle, no make up and what she called 'mom' clothes. I picked a dress that was flattering to my two bridesmaids and arranged a makeover for my best friend (the other bridesmaid refused it) for wedding hair and make up and she looked so fantastic on the day and was inundated with compliments - I was so pleased for her. But I had at least ten people come up to me and tell me that I shouldn't have done this for her as it took the limelight off of me and that there was a reason bridesmaids' dresses are traditionally ugly. I didn't care - I had a special day which was made more special by the gift I was able to give my friend and enjoy all day long seeing her happiness.

But...it now wouldn't surprise me if some brides do deliberately pick unattractive dresses. I don't know why they would do this to their friends and family - but I know one woman who told her friends she was going to do them a favour by not choosing them as bridesmaids and then picked the least attractive family members and picked these yellow dresses that didn't suit any of them and had only one photo taken with the bridesmaids in.

I like to think that most of the women who choose unflattering dresses just have a poor sense of what works, but I suspect that some are seeing their obese bridesmaids trying on the bad dresses and thinking how much better they'll look in comparison.

I'm so glad my sister didn't do that. My only turn as a bridesmaid was at her wedding. It was early 70s so the dresses might look bad now - but by no means hideous - they were handmade by a relative & suited my other sis & myself pretty well.

A trend now -- and something my niece did at her wedding -- is to chose a particular fabric and each bridesmaid can have a dress made in that fabric in whatever style that suits her. It was really very lovely, and lots of fun to see the different styles.

I'm a lifetime member of Weight Watchers who left Weight Watchers when they went to the Plus system. I didn't need a "new" system. I'd already lost my excess weight on the original WW plan in the early 2000s. The new system seems to be designed mostly for people with poor eating habits who need to be weaned off candy, cookies, fastfood junk, etc., who apparently are incapable of following WW's simple guidance regarding good eating habits. My original large group of WW members has fairly much disappeared one by one due to shock & disappointment with WW over the radical changes they've made in the point system. Their system became so complicated, they needed members to use a small special calculator (that only they could sell) to figure out points. I began to lose interest in WW when they stopped using "members only" in their ads & started featuring so-called stars in them. Shame on WW. They deserve their present problems with maintaining membership. I was told all kinds of misleading information in WW meetings by the meeting leader about low-carb diets, especially anything named Atkins, as well as about food basics, such as a correct definition of what a "complex carb" is. I understand they use only lifetime members as group leaders, or did when I was active in WW, & once checked into the training program. I found out they pay very little but require extensive time in training so that everyone spouts the corporate approved information as well as dresses in NY style (no blue jeans, other casual wear they don't approve). I'm very disappointed in how far WW has degenerated from its origins, mostly due to bad management at the very top as well as a heavy-handed profit motive. This is my opinion, of course, based on my own experience over years with WW as a member, including as a lifetime member (meaning I achieved goal weight on WW). Your opinion or experience with WW may differ, of course. ~~ Desert Mo