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  #91   ^
Old Wed, Jul-30-14, 11:34
JLx's Avatar
JLx JLx is offline
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Posts: 1,893
 
Plan: Winging it
Stats: 236/236/207 Female 66
BF:High wt, 276, 255
Progress: 0%
Location: Michigan U.P., USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merpig
I wish his blog was a little better indexed so I could more easily see the articles worth reading, though I've been trying to pick through some of the topics that sound of interest - but a lot of them lead me to unviewable videos.


I prefer to read too so what I did was start at his earliest blog post and worked my way forward via "Next Post" and skipped the videos.

Then I got really interested and went to YouTube later and followed the various lectures. If you watch only one video, I recommend this one. Insulin Toxicity and How to Cure Type IIInsulin Toxicity http://intensivedietarymanagement.c...ype-2-diabetes/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Merpig
I was sad to say he says no artificial sweeteners on his food lists though.


He doesn't elaborate on that much. He seemed to lump all the sugar alcohols together for instance, despite them having different properties. I'm taking this prohibition with a grain of salt unless I learn otherwise from my own experience.
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  #92   ^
Old Wed, Jul-30-14, 11:41
Liz53's Avatar
Liz53 Liz53 is online now
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Posts: 6,140
 
Plan: Mostly Fung/IDM
Stats: 165/138.4/135 Female 63
BF:???/better/???
Progress: 89%
Location: Washington state
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Debbie, I had trouble with the videos at first as well, but I finally figured out the key to them.

For the videos, there are two main categories : The Aetiology of Obesity and Type 2 Diabetes. To find both, click on the Lecture menu at the top of the page. When you get to the Aetiology of Obesity series, there are 2 pages of them, and they are in reverse chronological order. Go to page 2, scroll to the bottom. Start there. You will work your way through page 2, from bottom to top, then page 1, bottom to top (confusing, no?). Similarly the Diabetes ones should be viewed from bottom to top.

As for the blogs, they too are in reverse order, and as long as you read them from I to XXIII (or whatever the last one is) they make good sense. Start here and then follow links at the bottom of each to the next one. One of the links is bad, it just takes you back to itself, but by then, you'll be in the rhythm. Just check the date and go to the next blog post in that series (there's a menu of months on the right side).

I can't stress too much how good this new information is. I would say if you really can't do it with AS, then try it with. If it doesn't work, maybe you can cut back. Baby steps.

Last edited by Liz53 : Wed, Jul-30-14 at 12:45.
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  #93   ^
Old Wed, Jul-30-14, 12:18
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pivoine pivoine is offline
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Plan: lchf + if
Stats: 230/169/130 Female 5' 5-1/2"
BF:
Progress: 61%
Location: France
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I've just spent a couple hours listening to his (fascinating) (and very convincing) lectures. I'm interesting in trying the 24 hr version. As long as coffee with cream is allowed I might survive. Have psyllium seed. Works great. Have broth ... I'm interested in how the intermittent fasting idea compares with the Atkins low low carb regime which also wants to starve out the sugars to encourage the fat-burning. I've now lost my proverbial 10% of bodyweight on low-carb - (down 11 kg) that seems to be the limit and easiest part of every diet, and I guess I now need to trick the "set point" down to go further. Will be delighted if intermittent fasting works, and if I can manage to do it without feeling horrible.
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  #94   ^
Old Wed, Jul-30-14, 13:11
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
To Good Health!
Posts: 10,160
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
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You can run through the lectures in order as Liz explained well, or also check the subject Tag Cloud on the right. (Bigger letters, more links) The one on Artificial Sweeteners has the diet soda studies, the splenda-insulin study may be in the lecture on that tag, but here it is: http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/261179.php I think he also had a study where just the sweet taste on the tongue, even if the food was spit out, caused an insulin response.
His attitude towards towards AS comes through loud and clear in that diet soda blog post under that tag.

Last edited by JEY100 : Wed, Jul-30-14 at 15:03.
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  #95   ^
Old Wed, Jul-30-14, 14:25
Liz53's Avatar
Liz53 Liz53 is online now
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Posts: 6,140
 
Plan: Mostly Fung/IDM
Stats: 165/138.4/135 Female 63
BF:???/better/???
Progress: 89%
Location: Washington state
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
(Bigger letters, more links)


Wow, the things you learn here. I'd always sort of wondered about whether it was more than just "decorative".
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  #96   ^
Old Wed, Jul-30-14, 15:00
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
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Posts: 10,160
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
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I didn't know what a Tag Cloud was either until AWLR used it…scroll down to benefits and side effects…I'm in there somewhere http://www.awlr.org/results.html
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  #97   ^
Old Wed, Jul-30-14, 16:58
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Merpig Merpig is offline
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Plan: IF/Fung IDM/Potato Hack?
Stats: 375/272.6/175 Female 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 51%
Location: NE Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
You can run through the lectures in order as Liz explained well, or also check the subject Tag Cloud on the right. (Bigger letters, more links)
Yeah, I did know the "bigger meant more links" - I just prefer more "old-fashioned" indexes like the one on my blog which just lists all the topics and then in parens show how many entries for that topic. Tag Clouds are just too annoyingly frou-frou for me, .
Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
The one on Artificial Sweeteners has the diet soda studies, the splenda-insulin study may be in the lecture on that tag, but here it is: http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/261179.php I think he also had a study where just the sweet taste on the tongue, even if the food was spit out, caused an insulin response.
His attitude towards towards AS comes through loud and clear in that diet soda blog post under that tag.
I did look at his entry. I don't drink diet soda or any sweetened sort of drinks. I don't like the taste of sweet drinks in general.

I mean he talks (in one of the things I read) about how eating something like quinoa alone causes a much bigger insulin spike than if it's buffered with fat (I'm talking from memory so may have the facts a little skewed, so hope you get the general gist). And since I only use AS (and never splenda) with plenty of fat I've wondered if that has an impact as well.

Anyway, all hypothetical at this point since I'm just thinking about it, and it will be weeks before I have an internet connection that can support watching videos.

Last edited by Merpig : Wed, Jul-30-14 at 17:10.
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  #98   ^
Old Wed, Jul-30-14, 17:07
Merpig's Avatar
Merpig Merpig is offline
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Posts: 6,144
 
Plan: IF/Fung IDM/Potato Hack?
Stats: 375/272.6/175 Female 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 51%
Location: NE Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liz53
For the videos, there are two main categories : The Aetiology of Obesity and Type 2 Diabetes. To find both, click on the Lecture menu at the top of the page. When you get to the Aetiology of Obesity series, there are 2 pages of them, and they are in reverse chronological order. Go to page 2, scroll to the bottom. Start there. You will work your way through page 2, from bottom to top, then page 1, bottom to top (confusing, no?). Similarly the Diabetes ones should be viewed from bottom to top.
Well it will be weeks before I once again have an internet connection that I can watch videos on, but I'll keep following this thread and will have to try to remember this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liz53
As for the blogs, they too are in reverse order, and as long as you read them from I to XXIII (or whatever the last one is) they make good sense.
Ah that makes more sense than trying to read them XXIII to I as I was starting to do. I'll have to read from the beginning, and just skip over anything that involves a video.
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  #99   ^
Old Wed, Jul-30-14, 19:55
JLx's Avatar
JLx JLx is offline
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Posts: 1,893
 
Plan: Winging it
Stats: 236/236/207 Female 66
BF:High wt, 276, 255
Progress: 0%
Location: Michigan U.P., USA
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For dinner tonight, I tried some black rice, http://www.amazon.com/Village-Harve...DGYZJ1715W5GR6A which I'd never heard of but was on Dr. Fung's list eat "less often" http://intensivedietarymanagement.c...-index-idm-2-2/ It reminds me a lot of the taste of brown rice and is chewier than white rice too. I had a half cup (cooked) with a TB of butter and a handful of cheese melted on top, a 2-3 oz blob of baked fish, a few baby carrots with one half TB of ranch dressing and a small amount of home made ice cream with sugar free choc chips (Lily's brand with erythritol and Stevia). I forgot to take the vinegar before but remembered after I'd taken a few bites of carrots when I drank about a tablespoon. This was following a 24 hr water only fast. It felt like too much food but I'm still adjusting to these post-fast meals when I'm really hungry.

Blood sugar post one hour was 99, post two hours, 89 and three hours, 77. I'd be suspecting my test strips if they weren't brand new. I tried another old strip and it was comparable.

I was amazed by this and can only attribute it to the vinegar, or perhaps this is a really special kind of rice? Or the result of the fasting? I've also been taking potato starch for the resistant starch but am only in the early days of that one (1 TB).

I just started reading the Perfect Health Diet as Dr. Fung's ideas seem to be fairly well aligned. Tom Naughton, who's favorably inclined towards PHD these days, did a Q&A with Paul Jaminet recently that was really interesting. The site's screwy right now or I would link.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Merpig

I mean he talks (in one of the things I read) about how eating something like quinoa alone causes a much bigger insulin spike than if it's buffered with fat (I'm talking from memory so may have the facts a little skewed, so hope you get the general gist). And since I only use AS (and never splenda) with plenty of fat I've wondered if that has an impact as well.


That was my thinking too. If you have an lc cookie or piece of cake as part of a meal you'll get the calories to match the expectation.

With fruit, conversely, you have a sweet taste, depending on the fruit, but often relatively few calories (but fiber also).
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  #100   ^
Old Thu, Jul-31-14, 03:52
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JEY100 JEY100 is online now
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Posts: 10,160
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
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From the Frou-Frou Tag Cloud I thought his views about using any artificial sweeteners was rather clearly expressed.

Quote:
Let me put it this way. Reducing dietary sugars is certainly good. But it doesn’t mean that replacing sugar with completely artificial, manmade chemicals of dubious safety is a good idea. I mean, pesticides and herbicides are also considered safe for human consumption. That doesn’t mean we should be going out of our way to eat more of them. (Anti-organic foods? Extra pesticides for worm free apples!)

There are simply too many things that can go wrong with the ingestion of chemicals such as aspartame, sucralose, or acesulfam-K. These are not foods. There is nothing food like about them. They are synthesized in a chemical vat and sold to you because they happen to be sweet and not kill you in the amounts used in foods. Glue won’t kill you either. That doesn’t mean we should be eating it. Imagine if they advertised “Glue – tastes good and it won’t kill you, so you should eat more!” (at least one kid in every classroom seems to love the glue stick a little too much) Imagine if they advertised “Aspartame – tastes good and it won’t kill you, so you should eat more!”

The bottom line is that these chemicals do not help weight loss. They may actually cause weight gain. These artificial chemicals may cause cravings that may induce over-eating of sweet foods. By continually eating sweet foods, even if they have no calories, may lead us to crave other sweet foods that may contain sugar or starches.
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  #101   ^
Old Thu, Jul-31-14, 04:54
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
To Good Health!
Posts: 10,160
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
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Week 4 Update:

-It really does get easier. 24 hour fasts with coffee, broth and 1TCO and no hunger.

-Yesterday did a 29 hour fast, lunch Tuesday to dinner Weds. Was in a meeting or traveling 9-3 only sipping water, and felt great ( is that norephrinine kicking in?), no hunger. Had a large but not crazy amount of food for dinner, snacked on hummus and baby carrots while I made the salad, but it was normal pre-dinner hunger. Sure it is all mental, but if I have one meal each day, I'm OK with that.

-BG has been lower in the am, pm, and PP all week. Nothing above 100. Still in the 80-90s but I'll take it. Have been screwing around with Resistant Starch and PGX, never a regular dose of any, should probably stop that and just do the fast protocol. So will drop the potato starch, but one cap of PGX before dinner with 1T vinegar when I remember seems OK.

-Sadly, no further weight loss this week, still at 8 pounds lost total...BUT

-Inches lost everywhere over four weeks. In addition to alternate day fasting, I am doing deep water aerobics almost everyday, so there maybe toning going on, and I started at a fluffy wine and dinners out pudgey state, but much improvement in that area.

-I had committed to trying a fasting protocol for two months, and will happily continue, even fitting longer fasts around required social/travel meals. My husband, who always has eggs in butter for breakfast, remembered around 2 I hadn't had lunch but told him I wasn't hungry, and he usually isn't either, so we went home for an early dinner instead. He must still think I'm on some BG testing kick, and has no idea I'm fasting.

-I am only three pounds above a healthy BMI and further weight loss may have to involve reducing calories, but I hope that will come naturally this next month. I am not starving anymore when dinner rolls around, no cravings for snacks, and maybe,without consciously doing so, food intake may lower too. If it doesn't, no worries, happy with the lower BG and will have insulin, Hb1C and other blood work done early Sept.

Last edited by JEY100 : Thu, Jul-31-14 at 06:10.
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  #102   ^
Old Thu, Jul-31-14, 05:22
JLx's Avatar
JLx JLx is offline
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Posts: 1,893
 
Plan: Winging it
Stats: 236/236/207 Female 66
BF:High wt, 276, 255
Progress: 0%
Location: Michigan U.P., USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
From the Frou-Frou Tag Cloud I thought his views about using any artificial sweeteners was rather clearly expressed.


He only mentions those three sweeteners, and specifically in terms of diet sodas. I thought he also said something about sugar alcohols but now I can't find it so perhaps I read it somewhere else.

I don't think the sugar alcohols are all the same and I don't think either that stevia and lo han are on a par with aspartame or sucralose. And if the issue is sweet taste, pears are on his 90% list despite being very sweet, imo.

Btw, ever since you mentioned it, I've been curious why you don't want your husband to know you're fasting.

If this works for me, I'm going to be telling everybody.
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  #103   ^
Old Thu, Jul-31-14, 05:39
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
To Good Health!
Posts: 10,160
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
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It's just one of Dr. Fung's tips..don't tell other people you are fasting, they will not understand. Other people will think "You're CRAZZZZZY" Fasting will slow your metabolism, you'll get sick, deplete nutrients, blah, blah. (Minute 50 in the Fast lecture, part 4)

Quote:
Tip #5. Don’t tell anybody you are fasting – Most people will be discouraging, as they do not understand the benefits of fasting.


It's like not telling someone you are on Atkins, but instead say I don't eat processed foods or sugar. I just wanted to get a month or two under my belt, be sure I could actually survive (had my doubts to start!) and maybe even get some better blood work in. He eats no grains, Paleo, and skips meals himself, but if I say "fast", he might be concerned about my health.

Last edited by JEY100 : Thu, Jul-31-14 at 06:02.
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  #104   ^
Old Thu, Jul-31-14, 06:11
Merpig's Avatar
Merpig Merpig is offline
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Posts: 6,144
 
Plan: IF/Fung IDM/Potato Hack?
Stats: 375/272.6/175 Female 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 51%
Location: NE Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
From the Frou-Frou Tag Cloud I thought his views about using any artificial sweeteners was rather clearly expressed.:
Quote:
The bottom line is that these chemicals do not help weight loss. They may actually cause weight gain. These artificial chemicals may cause cravings that may induce over-eating of sweet foods. By continually eating sweet foods, even if they have no calories, may lead us to crave other sweet foods that may contain sugar or starches.
Oh I agree he was perfectly clear. I just know that in my case I would never have lost 100 pounds without the help of sweeteners, and I would never have kept those 100 pounds off for five years so far without the help of sweeteners. Without them I'm sure I'd be back to to 400 pounds by now. I do try to minimize their use but in years of dieting I've learned some of the things I can do and some that I can't do. Giving up As in the past has always led to *serious* binging after 3-6 weeks.

So right now I'm going to read some more of his blog posts, and take it day by day. I'm trying to fast today. I've held off on making my morning coffee for a couple hours now, but finally need that cup and will go have some coffee with a little cream and coconut oil.
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  #105   ^
Old Thu, Jul-31-14, 07:40
Liz53's Avatar
Liz53 Liz53 is online now
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Posts: 6,140
 
Plan: Mostly Fung/IDM
Stats: 165/138.4/135 Female 63
BF:???/better/???
Progress: 89%
Location: Washington state
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Thanks for the report JEY, it sounds like you are doing great. I'm into my third week of fasting, averaging 2 days per week. After 5 days of guests and social events, I semi-fasted yesterday. Really, I just skipped breakfast before going to the gym. I felt fine in my classes (better than with breakfast) and I continued to feel well all day. I ate breakfast (bacon, eggs, veggies) at lunch and a normal dinner. There was no sense of missing anything despite a deficit of 400 or so calories. Today I will eat my normal 3 meals. Just skipping breakfast was so easy in comparison to fasting till dinner time. I managed to lose 2 of the 3.5 I'd put back on in the past 5 days of socializing (lots of wine), so if I can do that just skipping breakfast, I'm wondering why I'd want to suffer through the afternoon of fasting.

Debbie, I don't know if you've read Dr Fung's tips for fasting, but cream and coconut oil in your coffee are allowed at any time. When I read about your desire to keep in the artificial sweeteners, I am reminded of something my husband quotes me periodically: Let not the Perfect be the enemy of the Good. I would think fasting + AS might not show results as quickly as without AS, but if it keeps you on the program, you may well still have some benefits.
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