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  #31   ^
Old Sat, Mar-08-14, 18:12
KDH's Avatar
KDH KDH is offline
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Posts: 1,247
 
Plan: Atkins/Taubes
Stats: 270/168/160 Female 5'7"
BF:
Progress: 93%
Location: Dallas, TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2thinchix
I honestly doubt that had anything to do with the vegan diet - and I'm not sure why as meat eaters (who are often attacked for our OWN diet) that we feel the need to bash others. A vegan diet can be perfectly healthy. And yes, I do know a 2 year old with teeth rotting out of his head - my cousin. In his case it is because his mom always put him down for naps with a bottle full of milk. That does mean milk is "bad" - just that letting it pool on the teeth is.


I know that when I ate breads and drank juices on a "healthy low fat diet" my teeth were awful. Low carb stopped the constant cavities and enamel stripping.
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  #32   ^
Old Sat, Mar-08-14, 18:44
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MandalayVA MandalayVA is offline
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Posts: 2,545
 
Plan: whole foods
Stats: 240/180/140 Female 63 inches
BF:too f'ing much
Progress: 60%
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s-piper
As for the dental issue, I do honestly think that good genes make the difference. It's the only way I can explain myself. I'm 27 and have never had a cavity.


Not true. My dad was wearing full dentures before he was forty. My mother, who died when she was 43, was losing a lot of her teeth. I'm the youngest of four. My brother took after my dad and had full dentures by 42. My two sisters have had extensive dental work but each has lost over half their teeth. Me? I'm a recovered dental phobic (SADISTIC childhood dentist) who went for sixteen years without a dental visit. I used to have to get knocked out for a cleaning. I had five teeth pulled in 1998, including the rotten stumps of two wisdom teeth, and I was one of the "four cleanings a year" people. I changed my diet. In that time, no cavities, down to twice a year like normal people (and it doesn't take the hygienist that long). The only false tooth I have is an implant because my left canine was one of the Lost Five. In short, I'm the only one in my family who has the vast majority of her own teeth and they're in good shape. Low carb eating isn't just for weight loss--if you have crappy teeth it can be a godsend.
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  #33   ^
Old Sat, Mar-08-14, 19:10
s-piper s-piper is offline
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Posts: 694
 
Plan: LC Primal
Stats: 290/270/160 Female 5'7
BF:
Progress: 15%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandalayVA
Not true. My dad was wearing full dentures before he was forty. My mother, who died when she was 43, was losing a lot of her teeth. I'm the youngest of four. My brother took after my dad and had full dentures by 42. My two sisters have had extensive dental work but each has lost over half their teeth. Me? I'm a recovered dental phobic (SADISTIC childhood dentist) who went for sixteen years without a dental visit. I used to have to get knocked out for a cleaning. I had five teeth pulled in 1998, including the rotten stumps of two wisdom teeth, and I was one of the "four cleanings a year" people. I changed my diet. In that time, no cavities, down to twice a year like normal people (and it doesn't take the hygienist that long). The only false tooth I have is an implant because my left canine was one of the Lost Five. In short, I'm the only one in my family who has the vast majority of her own teeth and they're in good shape. Low carb eating isn't just for weight loss--if you have crappy teeth it can be a godsend.



Hey, I'm not saying don't bother with diet changes, dental visits, or, for that matter, flossing because your genes doom you one way or the other.
I study genetics, I know better than that!

I am saying, though, that there are some of us who are just lucky. When it comes to my teeth I'm the 2 pack a day smoker who lived to 90 and died in a tragic sky diving accident having never gotten cancer.

Or, ya know...that person with the high carb tolerance who can eat all the wheat and sugar she wants without gaining weight!
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  #34   ^
Old Sat, Mar-08-14, 19:23
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Whofan Whofan is offline
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Posts: 2,550
 
Plan: Low Carb Primal
Stats: 170/135/135 Female 5ft.6in.
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: New York Metro area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s-piper
If she's type 1 diabetic you can't exactly fault her for using insulin to stay alive before it could be synthesized.

Don't worry, though, there's plenty to fault her for!

My favorite is that when PETA is accused of being hypocrites by exploiting women in their quest to end the exploitation of animals, her response is always "I can't be sexist because I'm a woman!"

My bad, wonder why anyone would think that....(warning, links to images NSFW).
1
2
3

Or more recently "But wait! We do the same to men so that makes it okay."

4


I don't agree with them on veganism or on being anti-domestic pets, but I do on some things like circuses, zoos, and aquariums. They definitely have a point about reasons against captivity, but the way they go about it....ugh!


I'm going to preface this with the disclaimer that I am a former vegan who has been eating meat for a couple of decades and who is not a PETA fan or follower. In fact I feel quite strongly that their attitude to meat EATING is frankly wrong and distracts from the much more relevant cause of humane, healthy animal farming. However......

I do think PETA do a good job of drawing attention to cruelty toward animals. It was PETA pictures that first made me aware of factory farming. I was so horrified by what I saw being done to a living cow in a video that to this day I search out humanely raised meat whenever possible and will go without eating meat if the cheap factory kind is all I can find or afford. The thought of putting that in my body is nauseating. So, in a way, I feel I owe PETA a debt of gratitude in pointing me in the right direction for eating from a healthier (animal) food supply. Also, their pictures using human men and women being treated like animals are rather effective, in my opinion. But that's just my opinion.
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  #35   ^
Old Sat, Mar-08-14, 20:29
Bonnie OFS Bonnie OFS is offline
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Posts: 2,573
 
Plan: Dr. Bernstein
Stats: 188/150/135 Female 5 ft 4 inches
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: NE WA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kitann
Also this. Anyone you know eating cat?


Yes - the local coyotes. I've lost at least 3 cats to them, but I can't fault them for it. It's their nature, and if the cats are too stupid to go up a tree (and there are trees everywhere!), then they seem fated to be a coyote's dinner.

I think someone is feeding the kid a line of BS. Feeding the ferals & strays won't guarantee that coyotes and other predators won't eat them. But they might make a healthier meal!
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  #36   ^
Old Sun, Mar-09-14, 09:15
s-piper s-piper is offline
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Posts: 694
 
Plan: LC Primal
Stats: 290/270/160 Female 5'7
BF:
Progress: 15%
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WhoFan:

The pictures of actual factory farming practices. No argument there. I think in the developed world we're too disconnected from our food, and should know more about what happens to it.

The sexualized pictures of humans. We'll have to agree to disagree on that.
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  #37   ^
Old Sun, Mar-09-14, 09:32
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Whofan Whofan is offline
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Posts: 2,550
 
Plan: Low Carb Primal
Stats: 170/135/135 Female 5ft.6in.
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: New York Metro area
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Agreed.
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  #38   ^
Old Sun, Mar-09-14, 10:33
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teaser teaser is offline
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Posts: 15,075
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
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The best imaginable conditions that farm animals might be kept in would be an abomination if a human being were put in their place. Mistreating animals is bad. Same treatment to humans, worse.

If Peta's standards for animal testing had been in place for the last hundred years, would we even know what insulin was for? Or leptin? A call to end animal testing is logically either 1) a call to end new medicine/medical procedures, or 2) a call for an increase in risky human testing. This is not the ethical high ground, it's actually the opposite.
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  #39   ^
Old Sun, Mar-09-14, 15:06
s-piper s-piper is offline
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Posts: 694
 
Plan: LC Primal
Stats: 290/270/160 Female 5'7
BF:
Progress: 15%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teaser
The best imaginable conditions that farm animals might be kept in would be an abomination if a human being were put in their place.



Win!
Even if you look at the "we're the salves to the cats not the other way around discussion," it would be wrong to treat a human the way one treats a beloved pet.
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  #40   ^
Old Sun, Mar-09-14, 18:00
Bonnie OFS Bonnie OFS is offline
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Posts: 2,573
 
Plan: Dr. Bernstein
Stats: 188/150/135 Female 5 ft 4 inches
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: NE WA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teaser
The best imaginable conditions that farm animals might be kept in would be an abomination if a human being were put in their place. Mistreating animals is bad. Same treatment to humans, worse.


My animals are kept safe from predators with varying housing/fencing - depending on the animal. The animals don't know any different - they can't even imagine any different life. And that is the difference between animals, especially farm animals, and humans.
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  #41   ^
Old Sun, Mar-09-14, 18:37
Verbena Verbena is offline
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Posts: 1,056
 
Plan: My own
Stats: 186/155/150 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 86%
Location: SW PNW
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonnie OFS
My animals are kept safe from predators with varying housing/fencing - depending on the animal. The animals don't know any different - they can't even imagine any different life. And that is the difference between animals, especially farm animals, and humans.


I don't know if this is the language used in N. America, but in Europe I have heard the term "species appropriate". That is, animals should be housed, fed, etc. in a "species appropriate manner". Sounds good to me. CAFOs are not "species appropriate", feeding animal waste to herbivores is not "species appropriate", not allowing grazers onto grass is not "species appropriate".
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  #42   ^
Old Sun, Mar-09-14, 18:38
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Gypsybyrd Gypsybyrd is offline
Posts: 7,035
 
Plan: Keto IMO Atkins 72 Induct
Stats: 283/229/180 Female 5'3"
BF:mini goal 250, 225
Progress: 52%
Location: St. Pete, Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonnie OFS
My animals are kept safe from predators with varying housing/fencing - depending on the animal. The animals don't know any different - they can't even imagine any different life. And that is the difference between animals, especially farm animals, and humans.


I'm not so sure about that. My dog can imagine a life outside my 6' fenced yard. He keeps jumping the fence and/or digging out. Well, he did until I fixed and put a stop to it.
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  #43   ^
Old Sun, Mar-09-14, 18:43
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WereBear WereBear is offline
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Posts: 14,682
 
Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
Stats: 220/130/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 129%
Location: USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verbena
I don't know if this is the language used in N. America, but in Europe I have heard the term "species appropriate". That is, animals should be housed, fed, etc. in a "species appropriate manner". Sounds good to me. CAFOs are not "species appropriate", feeding animal waste to herbivores is not "species appropriate", not allowing grazers onto grass is not "species appropriate".


That's exactly right.

Feeding my cats no-grain foods, keeping a clean litterbox to encourage their "always pick a new spot" instincts, showing them which bookcases they can perch on top of, and letting them cuddle with me at night; this is species appropriate.

And a great way to enjoy them.

Most of our meat now comes from local farms where the cows graze, the chickens run free, and the pigs live in clean, pig-happy environments. It's what we have to do for the future; the current factory form is simply not sustainable, much less humane.
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  #44   ^
Old Sun, Mar-09-14, 18:58
Verbena Verbena is offline
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Posts: 1,056
 
Plan: My own
Stats: 186/155/150 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 86%
Location: SW PNW
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This is of course only my opinion (though I think a few others here might agree), but eating in a manner promulgated by vegans is "species inappropriate" for humans. :-)
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  #45   ^
Old Sun, Mar-09-14, 20:05
Bonnie OFS Bonnie OFS is offline
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Posts: 2,573
 
Plan: Dr. Bernstein
Stats: 188/150/135 Female 5 ft 4 inches
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: NE WA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gypsybyrd
I'm not so sure about that. My dog can imagine a life outside my 6' fenced yard. He keeps jumping the fence and/or digging out. Well, he did until I fixed and put a stop to it.


But I'm sure you've taken him for walks outside the yard. He then knows there is more to the world than the fenced yard. Also, dogs are brainier than rabbits and chickens - by a long shot!
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