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  #76   ^
Old Sat, Nov-30-13, 18:13
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,866
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dignity
For objectivity, I wonder if this forum has a thread with negative effects people have experienced from low carbing. We always hear about the sunny side but there have to be some drawbacks or unwanted effects at least for some people. Is there a thread on this?

Some people get carb flu, some suffer from sodium depletion (they need to increase salt), some people have much lower blood sugar than their body is used to, so they get false hypoglycemia.

People with marginal gallbladders, or ones who have been low fat for a long time, feel nauseous when they eat fat. Some people who are vegans and give it up have mental issues with eating meat again, for a while.

Some people try it and I suspect they give up because it can be a difficult adjustment to make.

I've been LC for 10 years, so you won't hear much bad from me.
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  #77   ^
Old Sun, Dec-01-13, 07:44
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
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Posts: 14,684
 
Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
Stats: 220/130/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 129%
Location: USA
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My own arthritis issues (thumbs, like my Dad,) turned out to be gluten-related. Eggs, poultry, and red meat fat don't seem to affect them at all.

I've become an "inflammation monitor" in general, since I deal with rosacea and endometriosis, and what makes them flare up is too many carbs... simple as that.

We mustn't forget that very few of us have been eating low carb since birth, as nature seems to have intended. We are all dealing with decades of eating too many carbs, too much junk, and food which has been genetically messed with, sprayed with pesticides, and wrapped in plastic.

I am one who embraced eating like a cave-person with few bumps. Now, diabetes runs on both sides of my family and perhaps that means my metabolism is designed for such eating, anyway.

Essentially, I can eat up to Rung 5 of Atkins... meats, low starch veggies, high fat and cultured dairy, low sugar fruits, and spirits (thank heavens

Legumes, starchy vegetables, sugary fruit, and wine remain problematic and the source of my few "cheats." Grains are off the table completely; I'm not even remotely tempted.

I bring this up to explain how my own experience would support the thesis that carbs are the source of all issues. And yet, I know people here on this forum who do well going all the way to the top of the carb ladder, or lose better with a bit higher carb, or drop their grip over fruit, or who can't handle the levels of fat I eat routinely.

Health issues, genetics, childhood programming and emotional triggers all make us unique, but I think we'd all agree that carbs are the problem.

What that means is still under debate.
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  #78   ^
Old Mon, Dec-02-13, 14:37
Daryl's Avatar
Daryl Daryl is offline
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Posts: 7,427
 
Plan: ZC
Stats: 260/222/170 Male 5-10
BF:Huh?
Progress: 42%
Location: Texas
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Drawbacks for me, are itching when I get deep in ketosis. From others, the most common complaints are thyroid issues, and hair loss.
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  #79   ^
Old Mon, Dec-02-13, 15:48
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
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Posts: 15,075
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
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I thought this was interesting. Biotin relates to hair loss. (Can conceivably relate to itching, too).

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24012088

Quote:
Consumption of a low-carbohydrate and high-fat diet (the ketogenic diet) exaggerates biotin deficiency in mice

Abstract
OBJECTIVE:
Biotin is a water-soluble vitamin that acts as a cofactor for several carboxylases. The ketogenic diet, a low-carbohydrate, high-fat diet, is used to treat drug-resistant epilepsy and promote weight loss. In Japan, the infant version of the ketogenic diet is known as the "ketone formula." However, as the special infant formulas used in Japan, including the ketone formula, do not contain sufficient amounts of biotin, biotin deficiency can develop in infants who consume the ketone formula. Therefore, the aim of this study was to evaluate the effects of the ketogenic diet on biotin status in mice.
METHODS:
Male mice (N = 32) were divided into the following groups: control diet group, biotin-deficient (BD) diet group, ketogenic control diet group, and ketogenic biotin-deficient (KBD) diet group. Eight mice were used in each group.
RESULTS:
At 9 wk, the typical symptoms of biotin deficiency such as hair loss and dermatitis had only developed in the KBD diet group. The total protein expression level of biotin-dependent carboxylases and the total tissue biotin content were significantly decreased in the KBD and BD diet groups. However, these changes were more severe in the KBD diet group.
CONCLUSION:
These findings demonstrated that the ketogenic diet increases biotin bioavailability and consumption, and hence, promotes energy production by gluconeogenesis and branched-chain amino acid metabolism, which results in exaggerated biotin deficiency in biotin-deficient mice. Therefore, biotin supplementation is important for mice that consume the ketogenic diet. It is suggested that individuals that consume the ketogenic diet have an increased biotin requirement.


The same sort of thing can happen in the other direction--going from starvation or a very ketogenic diet to a high-carbohydrate diet, thiamine requirements can go way up, and thiamine levels that may have been adequate are suddenly deficient.
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  #80   ^
Old Tue, Dec-03-13, 08:45
Daryl's Avatar
Daryl Daryl is offline
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Plan: ZC
Stats: 260/222/170 Male 5-10
BF:Huh?
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That IS very interesting. Thanks for posting it.

Another biotin fact, again brought to us by the Japanese, is that it can play a HUGE role in BG control.
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  #81   ^
Old Tue, Dec-03-13, 11:08
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
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Posts: 14,684
 
Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
Stats: 220/130/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 129%
Location: USA
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Along this same biotin line, remember that more than a third of us have a mutation on the MTFHR gene, which interferes with B vitamin utilization.

This could explain a lot of the variation we see in people reacting to low carb, or VLC.

For instance, I'm a CAVEWOMAN who thrives on lots of fat, can't make protein from vegetable sources very readily, and does well on carbs at 20 or less a day, even with high calories. I also have a normal MTFHR gene.

My husband does not. He has the MTHFR C677T mutation. We are giving him the methylated forms of B1 and B12, in megadoses, and he's responding as he should. So we hope this will help his CFIDS!

Just FYI, I know someone else with CFIDS, though not as bad as my husband... who tested positive the same way he did.
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  #82   ^
Old Thu, Dec-05-13, 11:25
Elfie's Avatar
Elfie Elfie is offline
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Plan: Bernstein
Stats: 330/140/140 Female 5' 3"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob-a-rama
If you have arthritis or bursitis, the high arachidonic acid in egg yolks, poultry, organ meats, and red meat fat can make the arthritis worse. I don't know if it can cause arthritis or not though.


I have arthritis...and I eat a lot of eggs (about 7 a day) because I also watch my protein grams (diabetic) which means I don't eat as much red meat as I used to and I dislike chicken.

Before low carb the pain was almost constant. Now, it rarely bothers me at all. So I think there has to be more going on than just the high 'arachidonic acid' in egg yolks. It is possible that these make arthritis inflammation worse when combined with a normal high carb diet?
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  #83   ^
Old Thu, Dec-05-13, 12:32
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
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Posts: 15,075
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
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Ideally, the body wouldn't become inflamed just because of an increase in the body of substrate to make inflammatory eicosanoids from. But one person's body might be able to respond to an arachidonic acid challenge better, by down-regulating enzymes for eicosanoid production, etc., than another's.
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  #84   ^
Old Thu, Dec-05-13, 17:35
sexym2's Avatar
sexym2 sexym2 is offline
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Posts: 4,850
 
Plan: Depends on the Day
Stats: 221/169.6/145 Female 5' 10"
BF:
Progress: 68%
Location: Southeastern, Iowa USA
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I loose a lot of hair when I stay strict with low carb for several weeks. How do we get Biotin?
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  #85   ^
Old Fri, Dec-06-13, 08:55
Bob-a-rama's Avatar
Bob-a-rama Bob-a-rama is offline
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Posts: 1,961
 
Plan: Keto (Atkins Induction)
Stats: 235/175/185 Male 5' 11"
BF:
Progress: 120%
Location: Florida
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My DW and I have been on a low carb diet since 2000 (my DW even longer). High glycemic foods are a no-no in the arthritis/bursitis diet, so they weren't a factor. Personally, I'm almost in permanent induction according to Atkins, because I can't tolerate more than about 30 low glycemic carbs per day without gaining (Unlucky in the metabolism department I guess).

Cutting out the egg yolks did wonders for both of us. A couple of years later the pulsed magnetic gizmo took out the rest of the pain.

That is until my DW started eating chicken just about every day. Her fingers started paining her again and swelling. We looked up chicken and found it very high in arachidonic acid. So she cut the fowl out and two weeks later her hands are pain free again.

I had a neighbor who used to walk her dog. She used a cane for walking. I shared the arthritis/bursitis diet with her, and in a month she was walking without the cane. A few months later, she was walking with the cane again. I asked her what happened and she said, "I just couldn't give up my _______" (insert a half dozen foods in the blank, all high carb or high in AA).

Now I'm not arguing with you Elfie, as I know that no two people are created alike. I'm glad you don't have a problem with the eggs - and I wish I could eat them without causing a problem.

Bob
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  #86   ^
Old Fri, Dec-06-13, 14:18
Elfie's Avatar
Elfie Elfie is offline
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Posts: 588
 
Plan: Bernstein
Stats: 330/140/140 Female 5' 3"
BF:
Progress: 100%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob-a-rama
Now I'm not arguing with you Elfie, as I know that no two people are created alike. I'm glad you don't have a problem with the eggs - and I wish I could eat them without causing a problem.

Bob


I agree. When the 'experts' state something 'absolutely', I usually add on...*sometimes*.

I'm thinking my arthritis is more directly linked to wheat and grains because when I eliminated them, my arthritis improved dramatically. I think I'd cry if I couldn't eat eggs.
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  #87   ^
Old Sat, Dec-07-13, 08:36
Bob-a-rama's Avatar
Bob-a-rama Bob-a-rama is offline
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Posts: 1,961
 
Plan: Keto (Atkins Induction)
Stats: 235/175/185 Male 5' 11"
BF:
Progress: 120%
Location: Florida
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I do egg whites, but they aren't as satisfying.

My DW has a problem with the nightshades (tomato, pepper, etc.) but they don't affect my arthritis at all. Again, we are all different.

Thanks to the diet and the gizmo I use, my arthritis is 99.9999% better. Oh, about once every couple of months, I'll get a reminder that I used to be in pain. Not something painful itself, but perhaps a slight discomfort if I stress my hands in the wrong way.

I quit taking MSM, SAMe, and rubbing DMSO on my joints. This saved me enough money to pay for the gizmo in a couple of months. I quit the Glucosamine too for a few months to see if the gizmo was working, and it was. But I started again because it is supposed to re-build the cartilage previously worn away. Who knows?

So I rarely eat egg yolks, fowl, and high glycemic foods. Having my hands and hip completely pain free is more important than a moment on the taste buds.

As we are all different, it's good to discover what foods work with us and which ones work against us. Then the wise person will make good decisions.

Bob
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  #88   ^
Old Mon, Dec-09-13, 08:27
Daryl's Avatar
Daryl Daryl is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 7,427
 
Plan: ZC
Stats: 260/222/170 Male 5-10
BF:Huh?
Progress: 42%
Location: Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sexym2
I loose a lot of hair when I stay strict with low carb for several weeks. How do we get Biotin?


I get mine at Wally World. Very cheap supplement.
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  #89   ^
Old Mon, Dec-09-13, 20:30
sexym2's Avatar
sexym2 sexym2 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,850
 
Plan: Depends on the Day
Stats: 221/169.6/145 Female 5' 10"
BF:
Progress: 68%
Location: Southeastern, Iowa USA
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I got my Biotin and Vit D-3, I was in need of that too.
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  #90   ^
Old Tue, Dec-10-13, 00:28
walnut's Avatar
walnut walnut is offline
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Posts: 2,876
 
Plan: C:12 P:60 F:satiety
Stats: 220/177.6/142 Female 5'5
BF:0/0/0
Progress: 54%
Location: canada, eh!
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Bob, what is the gizmo called that you use?

i have pain in my hands sometimes--mostly controlled by diet. i've noticed that when i'm eating regular eggs it's worse than with the omega eggs. and i cant overdo the chicken either. i thouht it was probably the gmo corn that they feed the chickens but it's interesting to hear that foods high in arachodonic acid can be a contributing factor. i've noticed problems with bacon and tilapia too(also high in a.a.)
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