On 8 April 2003, the 72-year-old diet guru Dr Robert Atkins slipped on ice and knocked himself out. He was admitted to hospital, where he died 10 days later without regaining consciousness. Published documents record that Atkins weighed 195 lb when admitted and 258 lb when he died on 17 April. According to Stuart Trager, a surgeon and consultant for the Atkins companies, Atkins' weight ballooned in the hospital because of fluid retention from organ failure (USA Today, 2/11/2004).

How on earth did he gain 63 lb in 10 days?

In my opinion, sodium might have contributed to it. Comatose patients are put on drips, which include a saline solution to maintain osmotic balance in the cells and prevent dehydration. According to Wikipedia, “The usual saline is a concentration of 0.9%, or 9 g per litre. This osmolarity is a close approximation to the osmolarity of NaCl [sodium chloride] in blood … The amount per day depends on the patient’s needs but is typically between 1.5 and 3 litres a day for an adult.” Able to burn little energy, the patient will inevitably bloat as the saline fluids add to his water weight.

I was taken aback how much weight someone can accumulate in these circumstances. It might be argued that water weight is not body fat, but in swelling the body, it has the appearance of being so.

Is salt fattening?

Most people believe that salt is not fattening, because it has no calories. We know, however, that if we eat extra salt we retain extra water. Such salt-induced weight gains are not thought to cause body-fat gains, since they supposedly reverse when salt consumption drops again. I have my doubts, because, in my case, water weight does not go down as easily as it goes up, nor as far. Judging by these forums, I’m not the only one.

When I eat very salty food, such as fish, cheese, or restaurant meals, my weight rises markedly, sometimes by 3 lb or more, because I am used to a diet low in salt. In theory, the added weight should vanish if I eat unsalty foods for the following two or three days. In practice, that reverses only part of the gain. To lose all the extra weight, I have to reduce calories for a while. Which bugs me, especially now that I maintain. Regrettably, this has taught me to steer clear of fish and cheese, two of my favourite foods.

By analysing my diet, I’ve become accurate in managing my weight this last year. But water-weight is the rogue elephant in my garden: it remains unpredictable. I decided recently to check what science says on the matter. I couldn’t find much on water weight, as such, but I did find some research on salt in the diet of rats. It seems that sodium makes it easier for glucose and lipids to enter fat cells (adipocytes):

“[…] insulin-independent glucose uptake, oxidation, and incorporation into lipids were enhanced in adipocytes from rats on the high-salt diet.” (Da Costa Lima et al, Chronic salt overload increases blood pressure and improves glucose metabolism without changing insulin sensitivity, 1997)

“In the present study we demonstrated that prolonged administration of a high-salt diet increased blood pressure, body adiposity, and leptinemia in rats. The augmented capacity to incorporate glucose into lipids and the higher lipogenic enzymatic activity may have promoted adipocyte hypertrophy [extreme swelling of fat cells] and excessive fat accumulation. This work provides evidence that high sodium intake may contribute to the development of obesity.” (Fonseca-Alaniz et al, High dietary sodium intake increases white adipose tissue mass and plasma leptin in rats, 2007)

On this evidence, a salt-induced increase in water weight promotes the enlargement of fat cells, giving them extra room for glucose and lipids. The more water the body retains, the heavier it becomes, often by many pounds. The brain responds by raising the body’s set weight. An increase in blood volume obviously increases blood sugar volume and the number of hormones and enzymes that turn food into energy. Increased water content gives the fat cells more lipogenic capacity, stimulating them to store more fat. If fat is deposited while the body is swollen with extra water, some dieting work will need to be done when water weight drops again.

“The analysis of white adipose tissue revealed that the high-salt diet enhanced the volume of visceral adipocytes. This isn’t explained by higher calories, as the diets were isocaloric. High-salt rats showed higher insulin-stimulated rates of glucose incorporation into lipids in the adipocytes. Glucose incorporation into lipids in the absence of insulin was also enhanced by salt overload. The data provide evidence reinforcing the hypothesis that higher insulin responsiveness is induced by high sodium intake.” (Fonseca-Alaniz, 2007)

I found other studies that observed an association between insulin and salt intake. I should repeat here that I’ve never bought the view of Gary Taubes and others that carbohydrate, through insulin, is the main cause of fat gain. Countless factors are involved, as far as I can see from reading up on the physiology of fat gain: I suspect high-salt consumption to be one of them--and not just because it stimulates appetite. The trouble is that salt so often acts hand in hand with carbohydrate that it’s not clear which of the two is the greater culprit when weight is gained. After all, carbohydrate, particularly in processed forms, tends to be consumed with salt. A cheese sandwich, for example, packs a high dose of sodium. Without sugar or salt, carbohydrate tastes dismal, which is why manufacturers won’t remove both at once from carbohydrate products. Unfortunately, most studies linking carbohydrate to weight gain fail to record the salt content of the carbohydrate, which would correlate equally with the weight gain.

*

Back in the days before he was immortal, Walter Bortz performed a classic study:

“Fat and carbohydrates were switched isocalorically in obese subjects on an 800 calorie formula diet. The results confirm those of our earlier report that any difference in the rate of weight loss between carbohydrate- and fat-containing diets was due to the sodium- and fluid-retaining capacity of dietary carbohydrates. Regardless of the level of protein intake, carbohydrate appears to mediate sodium retention.” (Bortz et al, Fat, carbohydrate, salt, and weight loss, 1968)

In this view, the metabolic advantage often claimed for low-carbohydrate diets--as in the recent highly publicised study by Ebbeling et al that Demi posted here (Effects of Dietary Composition on Energy Expenditure During Weight-Loss Maintenance, 2012)--might be explained by higher salt intake on the higher carbohydrate diets.

In the low-carb literature, I often read of the ground-breaking studies of Kekwick and Pawan and others who first reported a metabolic advantage for low-carbohydrate diets. Bortz, however, hypothesised that this advantage was completely attributable to salt. The weight loss curves in such studies, he said, resembled those in his own group’s sodium-containing studies, where weight loss was constant whatever the dietary constituents. He pointed out that successful high-carbohydrate diets, such as rice and fruit, are low in salt.

“The only metabolic advantage offered by a low-carbohydrate diet is its dehydrating potential. On representation of carbohydrate in the presence of sodium, this water debt must be repaid. A mixed diet is one in which fluid shifts and their consequent periods of confusion are offset, and is therefore one likely to be of most benefit to the obese individual.” (Bortz, 1968)

I find this a compelling explanation for most of the unexpected gains or losses I’ve experienced on my weight-loss and maintenance diets. Whether it is correct or not, I don’t know; but it fits. To be honest, it fits so well it makes me dance round the room. I’ve come to believe, as does Bortz, that a low-salt, mixed diet is best for maintenance, because it flattens daily weight variations and therefore reduces confusing results and the emotional stress they cause. But, in my opinion, a low-carb diet is none the worse for being less water-retentive than a high-carb one, because the effect of sodium on weight may not be entirely temporary.

*

I’ve also been having a look at some papers on fasting and starvation, which are interesting because dieting, as far as the body’s concerned, is a mild form of starvation. Here again, salt and carbohydrate are linked.

“Renal sodium excretion can be interrupted abruptly with the ingestion of carbohydrate, resulting in decreased urine volume and a plateau in weight loss despite a negative calorific balance. Why fasting results in sodium loss and why only carbohydrate sources can reverse this loss are questions that remain unanswered.” (Weinsier, Fasting: a review with emphasis on electrolytes, 1970)

Questions, it seems, that these days few even bother to ask. 70s research offers the most fertile territory for possible answers:

“When dietary carbohydrate is reduced to 50g daily through isocaloric substitution with fat, a pattern of sodium excretion, which is identical to that induced by starvation, develops.” (Boulter et al, Pattern of sodium excretion accompanying starvation, 1972)

This paper confirms that people on a low-carbohydrate regime retain less sodium. If my hunch is correct that increased sodium retention encourages body-fat deposition over time, then it follows that decreased sodium retention encourages body-fat reduction over time. That would make salt a significant factor in our ability to lose as well as to gain weight. However, over-restricting salt on a low-carb diet could be dangerous, which I expect is why Atkins advised his dieters to take some salt.

*

The obvious way to counter sodium’s weight-gain effect is to drink plenty of water. Until recently, I never understood how drinking water helps us to lose weight or avoid gaining it. Many half-baked internet nutritionists talk unscientifically about flushing toxins and even fat out of the system. But I grasp now that water works by diluting salt levels in the body: a high sodium concentration in the system makes us gain water weight; a low sodium concentration allows us to pass water readily. I daresay it's more complicated than that, but whatever the mechanism, the weight-loss benefit of drinking water is supported by some science. For example, though the following studies do not mention sodium, they are clear on the slimming effect of water:

“When combined with a hypocaloric diet, consuming 500 ml water prior to each main meal leads to greater weight loss than a hypocaloric diet alone in middle-aged and older adults. This may be due in part to an acute reduction in energy intake due to water ingestion.” (Dennis et al, Water consumption increases weight loss during a hypocaloric diet intervention in middle-aged and older adults, 2009)

(See also: Stookey et al, Drinking water is associated with weight loss in overweight dieting women independent of diet and activity, 2008.)

A similar report found that water intake reduces metabolic syndrome over twelve months, independent of diet. (Stookey et al, Increased water intake reduces metabolic syndrome over 12 months in overweight, dieting women, independent of diet composition, activity, and weight loss, 2008.) The authors do not connect this with salt, but it strikes me as no coincidence that salt is associated in several studies with insulin resistance, which in turn is associated with metabolic syndrome.

“Our results clearly showed that Dahl-S rats fed a high-salt diet were more insulin-resistant than those fed a normal diet. We suggest that salt sensitivity and excessive salt intake are important elements contributing to the development of syndrome X [metabolic syndrome].” (Ogihara, High-salt diet enhances insulin signalling and induces insulin resistance in Dahl salt-sensitive rats, 2002)

“[…]impairment in insulin sensitivity […] was highly correlated with an increment in circulating free fatty acid levels during high-sodium intake. These data suggest that 1. high sodium intake may exacerbate insulin resistance by increasing circulating free fatty acids, and 2. differences in sodium intake may influence measures of insulin sensitivity in other disease states.” (Donovan et al, “Effect of sodium intake on insulin sensitivity”, 1993)

“The salt-rich diet, in addition to increasing arterial blood pressure also significantly lowered plasma insulin levels and enhanced glucose and cholesterol levels in the obese Zucker rats.” (Pamidimukkula & Jandhyala, Effects of salt-rich diet in the obese Zucker rats, 2004.)

On the other hand, some studies show that sodium deficiency increases insulin resistance. Obviously, we all need some sodium to get by. (It’s difficult for westerners to become sodium deficient, but to be on the safe side I drink mineral water.) As with everything in the body, extremes are dysfunctional. Bortz said that in a mixed diet, fluid shifts should be offset by the balance of nutrients. That’s my approach these days, except when performing silly experiments on myself.

I suppose it wouldn’t matter if salt-induced fluid shifts caused only a pound or so of weight gain now and then; but, as we all know, water-weight gains can be dauntingly substantial. Which of us after a night out at a restaurant hasn’t stared at the scale the next morning in sheer disbelief, knowing full well that our calorie intake did not explain it? It’s enough to make us think the body is playing random games with us. It isn’t.

*

Well, it’s all well and good for me to sit here theorising my head off. It’s time I reported a savoury little experiment I did last week.

Salt experiment background

The reason I found Bortz’s analysis so plausible is that it makes sense of weight gains of mine that never added up.

I’ve been keeping a detailed food journal for a year. When a hypothesis comes to me, I check through the entries to see if they support it. I make tables of various correlations; but whatever correlation I find, the same group of unexplained weight gains refuses to get in line. I assumed these were freak results, days when my body played games with me. There were days, for example, when I consumed fewer than 1000 calories yet gained weight.

A recent experiment of mine turned my attention to salt, though its hypothesis had nothing to do with salt. I was experimenting by alternately eating nothing but cheese for a day or nothing but cheese and fibre for a day. The idea was to test whether by eating various forms of fibre with cheese, I could reduce the high weight gains I experience after eating cheese. (That series has a way to go yet and has to be spaced out to prevent me turning into a piece of cheese myself.)

It doesn't help that my favourite cheeses, mature Cheddar and Grana Padano, are particularly salty ones, but it never fails to astonish me how much weight they pile on for the grams. I can gain 3 lb or more overnight after a day of eating nothing but cheese in an experiment, though I will have eaten much less than 3 lb of cheese by weight. Salt-induced water retention must be the cause, I’ve decided, because the same doesn't happen to me with other dairy foods.

What really cheeses me off about cheese, though, is that I have to partly work off such gains through dieting–in other words, it’s not just a case of eating unsalty food for a few days and rinsing the pounds away like shower gel. The other day, as I pondered the problem anew, it occurred to me to look back through my journal to see what happened to my weight when I ate other salty food. I knew that fish, even raw fish, ratchets up my weight; but I soon found myself ticking off nearly all my previously inexplicable weight gains. It was that simple. A low-calorie day followed by a weight gain on the scale was almost always a salty-food day. Bingo.

*

Here are the most extreme low-calorie intakes that triggered a weight gain for me on salty foods (bear in mind that I’m a 5’ 10” male with an average losing requirement of about 1475 calories and a maintenance requirement of about 2100 calories):

1184, 670, 763, 963, 913, 689, 1144, 1174, 1108, 842, 1136, 928, 979.

(Yes, I’m a grown man who once gained weight after eating only 670 calories in a day.)

Weight gain on such paltry intakes has always been an affront to my sense of reason and fair play. How dare weight rise when I’d been such a good boy. Now at least my sense of reason could relax. The correlation between salt and weight gain on low-calorie days was stark. The same correlation also stood up for higher-calorie days, but those were confounded by other possible causes.

*

Once I’d identified the link in my journal, I wanted to know how much water weight my body holds, how long the water weight takes to go away, and how much fat gain, if any, might remain in its wake. I therefore devised a simple experiment. For one or more days–as long as I could safely manage–I resolved to eat nothing but salt.

Salt experiment

Apparently, according to that great bedtime book The Atlas of Diseases of the Kidney, if I increase my daily sodium consumption from 2 g to 5 g, I will retain an extra litre of water. A litre of water weighs about 2.2 lbs. At the risk of putting on 5 lbs, I decided to consume 10.8 g of sodium in a day, without any food, and see what happened.

Health authorities advise us to drink 2.5 to 3 litres a day of water. Being an obedient sort, I therefore decided to drink 3 litres of tap water with my salt. But I was not going to be stupid. I proposed to drink extra water if I felt thirsty. And to stop the experiment if I felt bad.

Before I began, I ate salt-free food for three days, in order to clear my body of as much sodium as possible.

Day 1

Cool weather.

On waking I weighed 151.5 lb.

(My maintenance zone is 150-158 lb. I deliberately allow 8 lb leeway for unexpected weight rises of several pounds. In practice, I try to keep between 150 and 154. On this day, my weight sat towards the low end of my maintenance zone, which afforded me the luxury of experiment.)

I spent the day mainly working at my desk. Not having to eat meals allowed me to get more done.

Three times during the day, at 9.00, 1.30, and 6.00, I drank one 0.4 litre glass of tap water, followed by another 0.4 litre glass of water into which I stirred a measuring teaspoonful of common table salt. Each very slightly mounded teaspoon of salt weighed 9 grams; therefore it contained 3.6 grams of sodium. I also drank another 0.6 litres of water.

By the end of the day I had consumed:

27 g table salt, containing 10.8 g sodium
3 litres tap water

I used cheap table salt, anti-caking agent and all, because I wanted comparable salt to that in processed foods.

Such is salt’s reputation that I half expected atrocious things to start happening to me. In fact, I felt almost completely normal. I did feel sleepy in the morning, which is unlike me. Apparently sodium can have this effect, and I slept very well that night on it. I never felt thirsty or hungry. I didn't bloat. I hardly peed all day, though I had a normal bowel movement.

In the evening, I took a blood pressure and heart rate reading on my little amateur kit. These kits are said not to be accurate, but they are at least consistent.

My usual readings are all pretty much the same. The previous one was:

Systolic blood pressure: 95
Diastolic blood pressure: 61
Heart rate: 67

The reading I took on the first evening of the experiment was:

Systolic: 106
Diastolic: 66
Heart rate: 60

That my blood-pressure figures had gone up shows, I think, that, even in a healthy person, salt does increase blood pressure. I was surprised to see that my heart rate was down; but when I looked the matter up, I read that heart rate often goes down when blood pressure goes up. Apparently, the heart slows down in response to the increased pressure in the arteries, so as to ease the flow of blood. Good old heart.

Day 2

Cool weather

On waking, I weighed 154.5 lb, a gain of 3 lb.

Even though I knew a gain was on the cards, I was still staggered to see such a brutal gain register in the window of my scale. I had hoped the fact I’d not eaten a single calorie the previous day would offset some or all of any gain in water weight. Perhaps it had done. If I’d eaten normally in addition to taking the three teaspoons of salt, I would surely have put on much more than 3 lb. I felt shaken. There is something truly uncanny about gaining 3 lb after 36 hours eating no food.

I spent the day mainly working at my desk, watching sport, and reading about salt. I pined for my workout more than my meals.

Three times during the day, at 9.15, 2.15, and 6.15, I drank one 0.4 litre glass of tap water, followed by another 0.4 litre glass of water into which I stirred a measuring teaspoonful of common table salt. Each very slightly mounded teaspoon of salt weighed 9 grams; therefore it contained 3.6 grams of sodium. I also drank another 0.6 litres of water. It was déjà vu all over again once more.

By the end of the day I had consumed:

27 g table salt, containing 10.8 g sodium
3 litres of tap water

I was pleased that both days were identical as far as intake, energy expenditure, and weather went.

When I’d woken up that second morning, I found myself breathing quite fast, though not unbearably so. Apparently, this can happen as a result of a slower heart rate, because the lungs try to compensate by taking in more oxygen. For most of the day I felt quite normal, though I had another brief spell of drowsiness, this time in the afternoon. As I mentioned, that was unlike me, but it might simply have been the result of not eating food or drinking tea and coffee.

In the afternoon, I started to pee less tentatively, and by the evening I was peeing normally. In the evening I also contracted a strangely civilised form of diarrhoea, which surprised me because I’d felt no preliminary warnings. These two excretory developments seemed to signal that my body now contained as much salt as it was prepared to put up with.

Forgive me for mentioning the diarrhoea, but it was unlike the normal form. It was as if the tap of a cider barrel was briefly turned to let out a precise measure before being turned off again. The same thing happened again a few hours later, similarly unheralded by intestinal preludes. I looked up the physiology involved, and I believe it was something called osmotic diarrhoea. Apparently, once the body contains as much sodium as it can cope with, it stores the excess in the bowel, from which the sodium draws water out of the rest of the body by osmosis in order to expel it. It’s the same principle as that by which magnesium salts ease constipation; in fact, I read that sodium is also good for constipation, something I never knew. The greater concentration of sodium in the bowel attracts water from the cells and interstices of the body, thus protecting them from over-saturation with salt. The process resembles what is known in trendy circles as a salt flush, though trendy people stop short of using table salt for the purpose. I doubt it sounds it, but this osmotic episode was actually quite pleasant.

By now I felt my body was giving me a message, so I decided to call an end to the experiment. I think it is beautiful the way the body takes over, when the need arises, to maintain health. Mine seems more sensible than me.

My blood pressure and heart rate readings on the second evening were:

Systolic: 114
Diastolic: 68
Heart rate: 52

Once again, my blood pressure had gone up and my heart rate down. This convinces me further that salt does potentially raise blood pressure in healthy people, whatever the salt apologists say. That doesn't mean it will cause health problems, of course; and, to be fair, even these higher readings stayed within the American Heart Association’s “desirable range”. No harm done, I believe.

I was expecting to feel nice and sleepy at bedtime, as I had the night before; but in fact I stayed up till 6 a.m. and then slept for only three hours. To say that is unusual for me is an understatement: I'm rarely up after midnight. I’ve no doubt it had to do with the salt. Maybe we get sleepy as we take in more salt (this has been documented) and less sleepy after that tipping point when excess salt starts being excreted. Perhaps the body wants us to stay awake so that we can pee, or to prevent anything untoward happening to us in our sleep.

I felt very relaxed and spent the night watching classical music videos on YouTube. In fact, I felt almost too relaxed, which I suspect might have been connected to the low heart rate. I’ve never had a heart rate below 60 before. I can usually see my pulse pounding at my wrist, but that night I could not detect it by eye; and when I touched it, it felt sluggish and remote.

*

The following morning I again weighed 154.5 lb.

So on the second day of the experiment I’d neither gained nor lost weight. Given that I’d been peeing freely the night before, I expect I at some point weighed more than 154.5 lb, the difference being afterwards lost in fluid. I’m guessing I might have gone up to 156 or 157 lb, which would have been a gain of 5 or 6 lbs of water weight in two days.

On the second night, round about when I started peeing properly and had the osmotic diarrhoea, I began craving food for the first time in the two days. Very specifically, I craved fruit. That was odd, because I’m not a great fan of fruit, other than dried fruit. And it’s not the sort of thing you expect to crave when you have diarrhoea. But two things strike me about fruit: it contains little sodium, and it is watery.

The day after the experiment ended, I therefore intended a fruit feast, but, cautious of my innards, though they felt fine, I started off with some potatoes to act as a buffer, before setting about eating fruit, fruit and cream, and dried fruit for the rest of the day, to a total of 2444 calories. I also drank and peed with abandon.

*

The morning after that, I weighed 152.5 lb. Despite eating 2444 calories the previous day, somewhat more than my usual intake, I had taken off two of the three pounds I had gained during the fast. I presume most of the loss was water weight.

That night I developed a gouty big toe. I get that about once a year, and I’ve always thought it was caused by rich food. I checked online, and it seems it can also be caused by salt, which crystallises in the tissue. Fortunately, it wasn’t a bad attack. In fact, I'm glad I had it, because it taught me something new about my body.

Conclusions and discussion

The experiment proved satisfyingly neat, because it had so few variables. On the face of it, the result suggests I have a potential water weight of at least 3 lb, probably considerably more since I gained that weight despite a total absence of calorific intake. And sedentary though I was during the experiment, my body must have burned many calories just to tick over. I usually maintain my weight on about 2100 calories a day; which means that during this experiment I sustained a calorie deficit of 4200 calories while gaining 3 lbs.

I believe the experiment gave substance to the two hypotheses that led me to conduct it.

The first was that salt-induced water-weight gain can be so extreme as to make nonsense of the scale. The more dieters learn about water weight and its relation to salt intake, the more they might be able to avoid those high overnight gains that seem so dismayingly random. (I leave aside the question of menstrual weight here, which at least shouldn’t seem so random.)

The second hypothesis was that water is fattening. The fact I remained 1 lb heavier a day after the experiment ended than I’d been before it started supports my suspicion that water weight is insidious. If it were the case that salt-induced water weight consists of no more than a transient influx of water that has no lasting effect on true body weight, then after a post-experiment day of drinking and peeing freely I should have been lighter than I was at the start of the experiment. When I fast, I lose an average of 1 lb a day. By that measure, I would have lost 2 lb over two days of not eating had it not been for the six teaspoons of salt.

*

Any hope that a somehow delayed weight loss was waiting in the wings while I gained and lost my water weight was dashed by this morning’s scale. I am writing this five days after I started the experiment. My weight has now dropped to 151.25 lb, which means, thank goodness, that I’m now a quarter of a pound lighter than I was at the beginning of the experiment. But yesterday I ate only 1801 calories, compared to my usual 2100, because in order to remove the remains of the added weight, I knew that I had to cut calories. And so it befalls us all. Nothing becomes of nothing. I rest my case that salt is fattening.

Of course it might be suggested that I should have gone on eating as normal, been patient, and waited for the day to come when the last pound of the gained weight would drain away of its own accord, as water must, to be followed by the loss of body weight postponed from my fast. Even were that possible, what use is waiting more than five days to a dieter or a careful maintainer? We’ve no alternative but to cut intake to get such weight off: it’s all we know–apart from the fact that weight is weight, whether it’s made of water or not. Fat cells contain a little water; perhaps they like to keep some of the extra they suck in during salt gluts. After all, they prefer to be large: it means they can hold more lipid and glucose. For us weight watchers, who do not prefer to be large, being overweight is about carrying excess water around with us as much as about carrying excess lipid. Maybe we need to be salt watchers too.

*

I’ve looked all over the Internet and not found an experiment like this. Perhaps that’s because I am mad. If nothing else, I believe I have invented the least successful diet plan in the world–one in which you eat absolutely nothing for two days and put on 3 lb in weight.

Do you use it? I think it will depend very much on how it is taken.

Salt is the great mystifier. I purposely take 1/2 tsp a dayin water, in two doses.

I do this because I have read many times over that the depletion of the water from our bodies in the LC diet is akin to dehydration and takes all our minerals with it.

What I have read about adding the minerals back, especially salt, is that it helps relieve lc headaches, (it does mine), it brings back a level of energy that was gone, it helps relieve constipation, you proved that, and it helps with restless legs and cramps that I get. I have to also increase my magnesium to high levels to relieve, not make disappear, that annoyng problem.

I think that I can accept the water gain. You give yourself 8 pounds to "bounce" in. Why not eat and enjoy what you love once in a while, know what will happen? Then go on as usual and lose the water again.

Also it seemed that your blood pressure seemed not to go up much higher than any adult who has gotten out of bed as had a full day. If you want a true reading, do not stand up and move about, stay reclining.

It would also be interesting to see what happens in heat, like the US is experiencing, without air-conditioning, and water retention.

These are my quick thoughts but I have to say that I have yet to read your full discussion on salt as I will have to find a quiet time and space to do it later. However, for me, I will not let a little salt bother me and I use it liberally.

i find your self experimetations very interesting, and am going to try one about fat and ketosis testing meter and strips in a week or so.... I will contact you before I start and maybe we can collaborate to set up a good experiment.

I will preface this post by admitting honestly that I have not read through all of the posts on salt. They are very long and much more scientific than I am.



I always thought these issues were a problem of induction level eating/switching from carbs to real foods? IDK. I never had any of these probs. That said, I've always used salt to my taste not worrying about the theory of too much salt. I don't use salt on everything at all...but, yeah, I have been known to throw a fair amount of salt and pepper on a chef salad...or sliced tomatoes....or avocado ~ but not always. I think I do when my body is telling me I need to.

Which brings me round to something I've wanted to share in this thread....

After having been low carb for so long (admittedly over years and several goes) I really believe that when I am craving a food (obviously not grains or sweets or some such, but a REAL food, like olives or celery or avocados or nuts or some such) that it is because that particular food contains some sort of nutrient my body needs. Again, I am not at all scientific, nor do I have the patience to test my theory, but I do intuitively believe it to be so.

I can eat the same foods day in and day out and be happy...but then all the sudden I HAVE to have some food or foods and I do whatever it takes to add them to my menu. For instance I can go WEEKS without eating peanut butter, but then I want a spoonful EVERY day for several days. Same with fruits or almonds or tuna or olives....etc.

So do you think that our bodies crave foods that contain the nutrients we need? Or am I just craving these foods cause I haven't had them in awhile?

My approach is to drink plenty of mineral water.



Because I find it harder to bounce up than down. For example, I remember one day all I ate, in two meals, was two fillets of smoked mackerel from a two pack, plus a small amount of vegetables. The calories were under 1200, but the next day my weight was up 3.75 lb! That weight did not all just drop off: I had to diet it down, which took over a week. I'm convinced there's more to such gains than temporary weight. At the time I was trying to lose weight, so I was horrified.

Now that I'm maintaining within an 8 lb range, yes, I could eat that same fish and inch the weight down before long. But could I eat the same fish two days running? Maybe 8 lb isn't enough leeway for repeated salt-induced weight gain. I've seen higher gains mentioned on this forum. I believe this sort of weight gain is not harmless, and that it doesn't just mask ongoing weight loss or maintenance, it physically impedes it.



I agree. I only mentioned the blood pressure for observation's sake. I'm generally not much interested in health aspects of diet other than weight management, because I expect health benefits to follow from weight management. Before I took off weight, my blood pressure was prehypertensive, and now it is good; that is all I know.

*

By the way, I'm enjoying reading all your posts about Portsmouth, Toulouse, etc.

The quotes from proper science can be a bit heavy, but I try to write clearly in between. I'm not scientific, and I hope it doesn't seem as if I'm trying to be. I parody science writing a little, I admit. When I say things like "excretory developments" and "intestinal preludes" I'm just having fun. The heading Conclusions and discussion is tongue in cheek (who am I to have conclusions and discussions?)



Most definitely. I found it strange that I craved fruit after my salt experiment, considering that I'm not much of a fruit eater. For two days I found myself eating little but fruit.

I have read of pregnant women sucking coal, which must be a search for some kind of mineral.

Even junk-food eating may be related to this, because not everyone is able to recognise what they need to eat. There is a theory that one reason people binge on nutrient-poor junk food is that the body compels them to continue in search of the minerals it requires.

I found this thread yesterday, and feeling PMS crappy and descided to sit here, be lazy and read the whole thread. I find it very interesting and a little anul that you can do these experaments. But, I am thrilled and would like to try the nut experament on myeself, I love nuts!

Your salt theory is very interesting, I believe the fat cells want to hold onto that last bit of water to keep their size and just hold onto as long as possible. I don't know if cutting calories had anything to do with it or your lack of salt when you cut calories or just the time frame. To many variables there but very cool and like I said, a little anul to drink salt water and not eat nothing else. Thats ok though, were all a little anul about something. its pretty cool that you can preform experaments on yourself and not break from them early.

Keep uo the good work, I'm going to keep an eye on you in hopes of learning something new.

Hi Plinge You said...
"I believe this sort of weight gain is not harmless, and that it doesn't just mask ongoing weight loss or maintenance, it physically impedes it."

I lost steadily during my 50+ lb loss and never gained more than a pound. I knew it was water weight because I had splurged on carbs that day, however, on my normal routine, it took me a day or so to lose it. I also use and eat salt with abandone now that I am at my goal. I do not have a problem with it. Maybe salt affects some, but it does not me.

Freckles:::::: In the Atkins books it says to take salt --1/2 tsp OR two cups of broth daily until 50 carbs or more are being eaten. I probably am not going to have many days when I eat 50 carbs and on the days when I have, my legs still give me fits if I don't use it...And yes, I do believe we crave what we need, look at 2 year olds, they have weeks of eating one food and then go off it and want another....

Hi Plinge!

No, I don't use it as a powder. I went through a phase several years ago when I first discovered it,.. playing around with the powder, putting it into capsules, mixing it with water to make the shirataki noodles, etc etc. But nothing more scientific to add to your own musings in this thread I'm afraid.

The only thing I CAN say for certain... is that if consumed in excess and in the absence of other food/calories... the soluble fiber on its own makes me feel sick - as IF I had eaten nothing at all.... but 1000x worse, than if I had not eaten anything at all.

That isn't adding much to the more interesting hypothesis you proposed however; of the viscous gel binding calories into it before some of them are even accessed at all... locking them in, and sweeping them away like a deluge.

Looking back on it all now, it's perfectly clear to me of course that I approached the entire thing from exactly the wrong perspective... and if I were to start to experiment again now, to examine some of the lesser discussed properties of glucomannan,... I would definitely be approaching it from a different angle than I did in 2005/2006, and the LAST thing I would ever be doing, is taking the capsules on their own or eating a big, plain, plateful of shirataki noodles with nothing else, in lieu of a meal!

Yes, I DO tend to like to do things half-assed, backwards, and always the hard way though!!!

Love,

Sisyphus

I think half a teaspoonful is not an unreasonable amount, and what we sprinkle on food is never as much as it seems, either. You are probably in equilibrium with salt: your body can balance your intake of it with what you excrete, so water build up never need start. Also, re the cramps, it sounds like you have a higher sodium requirement than me. You know what your body needs best.

What motivates me, as I said at the beginning of this thread, is to find ways by which I can eat normally. I have found a way to eat two of my favourite foods, nuts and dried fruit. I've an ongoing project on potatoes and which cooking methods make them more or less fattening. My coming challenges are cheese and fish. I want to be able to eat them happily instead of fearing their weight-gain potential. My thinking on salt is in the early stages, but I'm excited that the answer may be just to drink lots more water to offset the gaininess of cheese and fish--and, come to that, of salted nuts. Yesterday I tried eating 400 g of salted peanuts and nothing else except lots of water. I lost 0.25 lb. That may seem paltry, but it's a great victory, since I've never lost on salted nuts before, and this was 2400 calories of nuts, well above my daily 2100. Drinking plenty of water stops salt levels from getting too high and causing water retention. The answer for me may be just as simple as that, topsy turvy though it seems.

I agree that extracted soluble fibres are pretty vile. I don't see them as food, just supplements. I tried using guar and xanthan as sauce thickeners on occasion, but they just make them gross. I've no real use for glucomannan myself because I eat lots of dietary fibre. But I do think it could be an option for those on VLC who watch every carb and don't get much fibre. (I can imagine some people reading my ideas about fibre and thinking "But I can't do fibre food because of the carbs".)

I think if you stick to raw nuts and to your usual calorie intake, you might be pleased with the result. It won't seem like many nuts, but it helps to pour them in a nice dish and eat them one by one mindfully. My days of stuffing a handful in my mouth at once are over.



I admit it's anal. But like a lot of people on here I am sort of desperate to succeed and will do what it takes. I have a powerful need to understand why I put on weight and what I can do about it, preferably without having to half-starve myself for the rest of my life.

I find sometimes that I can discover more by an extreme experiment on myself than by reading wads of scientific papers. Because scientists have to be ethical. They are probably not allowed to even make rats eat nothing but salt, for reasons of cruelty. They certainly wouldn't do it with humans. I couldn't think of a better way to find out how much water weight salt makes me retain than to just eat salt and drink water till my body gave me some information.



Thanks for visiting, sexym2, if I can call you that. It never ceases to amaze me that anyone would read this stuff, which is mainly written as a way for me to arrange my thoughts.