Okay, lots of issues here.

Byetta is not a great drug and it works in a fraction of people. Just wanted to throw that out there.

This person was referring to bypass. Not DS. And they were referring to bypass 'curing' diabetes, later they referred to it correctly by using the word remission.

There was a Welsh study (I'm going by memory here, numbers will be close but not exact) showing that something like 70-80% of bypass patients went into remission within 10 days of gastric bypass. This was HUGE in the world of medicine. It completely changed how researchers look at diabetes. This is a good thing. But, while other studies showed similar results - long term... different ballgame. Diabetes came back in a good number of them.

What I am unsure of is why it came back. There can be a very significant regain if a bypass person ends up with a dilated stoma. Did the diabetes return because of weight gain or was it the same in those who maintained well, too? I don't know.

BTW, this person refers to amputating the stomach. There is nothing removed in bypass. They 'bypass' intestine, they do not remove it. They slice and dice the stomach, they do not remove it. Bypass is reversible and it's done all the time. It's risky but it is still done all the time.

Doctors do not make $20,000 for WLS. They often times charge $20K for surgery but that isn't the contracted amount paid by insurance. You can self pay for bypass for around $20K but that doesn't go to the doctor, the bulk of it goes to the hospital.

Dr. Ren? As in Christine Ren? She was just sued by the estate of a dead patient for using unlicensed doctors in the OR and for aftercare causing the patient to die. It wasn't even bypass, it was a band patient. Even she knows 95 patients is not nearly enough patients to see the bigger picture. I honestly wouldn't trust anything coming from her. I have links to news articles if you wish. They are in my blog.

www.WASaBubbleButt.blogspot.com

Death stats... many people like to take the highest risk target group of patients and point while saying, "See? The death stats are alarming!" Bleh... it depends on many factors. Risk level of the target group, surgeon skill, even hospital. Some hospitals have a much higher death stat. Even patient compliance is a huge factor. They are a week post op and supposed to be consuming clear liquids and you would be astounded to see how many are trying to eat ham and cram bagels down their throats.

This person is claiming 13 people out of every thousand die of bypass. That, quite frankly, is a load. There are some people that are very literally eating themselves to death. You don't get to be 800# from eating carrot sticks and chicken breast. Those people need surgery or they WILL die yet surgery might kill them. What do you do? Take the risk? Or let them die for sure? You take the risk.

This very biased author keeps referring to surgery or weight loss surgery and death stats and malnutrition. The person needs to stop being so ridiculously biased and post some real facts, neutral sources. They need to identify which surgery type vs. assuming every surgery type is like this.

Bypass... it's not my cup of tea. I don't like the surgery type. I think there is far too risk involved long term and my own personal opinion that I cannot back up with stats and facts but I don't believe we know enough about nutrition to be bypassing people willy nilly. However, someone who is seriously metabolically challenged is not going to do well with a band or sleeve, they need the malabsorption and for them DS can be a great choice.

I take serious offense to the people that lump all WLS types together and paint a doom and gloom picture. That's ridiculous and dishonest. If they were not so biased and dishonest they wouldn't need to lie, right? The facts should speak for themselves. But if they told the truth it wouldn't support their points, their invalid points.

Bypass puts diabetes in remission, maybe short term. DS... whole different ballgame. That is an actual cure for most.

I have a sleeve, I have no malabsorption. I do not supplement because of my neurotic thing with pills, I absolutely hate taking them. My labs are perfect except for Vit D3, that is very low without supplementation but it was low before I ever had surgery. Probably 95% of the US population is very low on D3 and I'd venture a guess that 100% of obese people are deficient in D3. I'm not dying of malabsorption, I have no long term issues because of the sleeve, my labs are perfect, and I'm still waiting for someone, anyone, to tell me how removing the fundus of my somach makes my body work badly. No takers on that one, just the claim.

I have been at goal for over 3 years now, I do not struggle to stay there, my diet is healthy. Most of my diet is produce thus I do supplement with protein shakes. Well, when I think of it. My diet is modified Atkins, I do eat carbs, I don't even count carb grams unless it is from white carbs. I do try to avoid flour as that is my trigger food. Sugar... I can take it or leave it.

Not all surgery types leave people dying and malnourished, period.

Got something more realistic to throw at me? Something I cannot refute with actual science?

Bipley, your signature speaks for itself: BEST DECISION EVER.

That's great, and everyone who has struggled with weight management issues, on this forum or anywhere, can feel happy for you.

That said, I think this conversation has about run its course. This is a forum about low-carb eating. That in itself is controversial, and produces a range of results for those who try it, from lifelong success to perpetual disappointment. As with any human activity, YMMV.

We can throw "science" and stats at each other until the cows come home, but what really counts is "What happened to ME." And for that, we make our own choices and take our own chances.

Glad yours worked out so well! Thanks for sharing.

Best wishes.

Nah... we really haven't run it's course. To date nobody has thrown science at me, just biased blogs without science or half arsed science.

I want someone to show me proof of their claims, like how my sleeve makes my body bad for me. I've been told this information but not a soul has been able to or willing to show me yet. Why and how is this true.

We don't go to adult discussions and throw out accusations, we defend those weird and bizarre accusations with science. That has not been done. Just 'believe me cuz I say so' claims.

Ohh nono, we are not done yet.

I have yet to push WLS on anyone, but I am told my surgery makes my body work in bad ways and I'm taking the easy way out. I want science. That is not asking too much.

And just for the record, I have made it clear I do my own version of low carb eating. Flour is my trigger food. I do avoid white carbs, with a passion.

Bipley, I know I'm not the only one confused by your statements on this thread. If you don't like the studies cited by the posters here, tell us how the methodology is flawed, or that they cherry picked the participants, or how they messed up the math on the charts. It's blogs, yes, but blogs quoting published studies.

Bloggers like Melting Mama have thousands of followers who all agree that for them, there are serious problems with WLS that the "science" of WLS does not acknowledge. The surgeons and online forums who push this surgery admit that its only purpose is to restrict what people can eat and digest.

The surgery you got is a response to the bad surgeries other people got; that is indeed science and that is how it works. But it could work better; I'm sure all those people who died to show how bad WLS can turn out did not know they were actually a lab experiment.

Instead of ranting at us; maybe you could send a little thought of thankfulness their way. And be grateful that you don't have the abundant issues that so many WLS patients struggle with on an hourly basis.

My issue with the surgery doesn't even have to do with the type of surgery or its relative safety. My problem is that invasive surgery and even just the general anesthesia alone are an unwarranted risky medical solution to something that is not a disease. I think you made your point that you thin obesity is a disease in and of itself - I could not agree less. It's clear to me that severe metabolic disease is at work in your 800lb example, but that is not most people getting these surgeries. I spoke with a friend who works for a bariatric surgeon and she felt my assessment was spot on - she hates bariatric surgery and it's what pays her bills.

Oh no no no.....

This isn't going to work. YOU made a blanket statement, here is what you wrote:



This is what you wrote. I am still waiting for you to show me how sleeves make the body system work badly.

My issue isn't as much about the studies they pick and choose, but the bias of the blogger, I was verrrrry clear about that.

DS most certainly does correct the wrong in obese patients, but for me... it comes with a price I personally am not willing to pay. But, I do not have metabolic issues so it's easy for me to say this is a price I would not pay.

Please explain to me what is confusing about what I write, I am usually quite clear but if my writing style has changed drastically on this thread, I am happy to clear it up.

I thought I was quite clear in writing that it is silly to take the worst complications of bypass and claim all WLS types experience these issues. Perhaps I am in error, if this is not clear for you, please tell me and I will go into more detail.

No, the studies are not designed as you suggest. The blogger was reading bypass studies and then rewriting them to suggest all WLS folks experience the same. I wrote a post about DS and diabetes, a poster responded showing me how bypassed diabetics have a return of diabetes.

Your point would be?

And btw...



I have an entire blog devoted to helping newbies choose the right surgery type for them. I DO my part in the world of weight loss.

www.WASaBubbleButt.blogspot.com

Notice, there is no advertising, not even Google clicks are there. I'm not selling anything, I'm not encouraging specific doctors, just free info.

Well, the world of medicine disagrees with you about obesity being a disease.

Did you know that we tend to produce 3x the amount of Ghrelin (hunger causing hormone) as a naturally thin person? Did you know the electrical activity in our brain is different from a naturally thin person? Are you aware that even the bacteria in our GI system is different from a naturally thin person? And the real kicker is that these differences exist before we even get fat. Then we have all the metabolic differences from a naturally thin person.

If our weight issues are ALL a matter of eating from the trough please explain to me why children born to obese women tend to struggle with obesity through their lives but if that same woman is a healthy BMI during pregnancy the child stands much less risk for obesity issues?

There is a reason we eat from the trough, sometimes it is emotional and sometimes it is physical. When it's physical that most certainly is a disease.

We have been conditioned for so long to just diet and exercise when in reality there are very specific, non emotional reasons we eat the way we do. And for the minority of those with metabolic issues... they could eat 600 calories a day and still not lose. How is this not a disease?

As written earlier, we now have 10 year olds with diabetes and high blood pressure due to being obese. You choose to put health care dollars into treating obesity, I disagree. I choose to put those same dollars into preventing medical costs for treating obesity.

The country of Australia starting doing WLS for BMIs of 30+. They have socialized medicine, their socialized medicine was going bankrupt due to obesity issues. So they went to being proactive to prevent obesity related costs. Medicaid pays for WLS because it is more cost effective in the US.

Going under anesthesia isn't as risky as you would have it seem. Is there risk? Oh heck yeah! Is it what you make it out to be? Nope. Anesthesia got a bad rep in the 1800s and people haven't let it go since. Having surgery at a high BMI carries more risk than being a normal weight. But isn't that the reason for the surgery? To reduce risks of obesity?

I'm sorry that your friend is in medicine just to pay the bills. The rest of us go into medicine to actually help the patient. That is bad on your friend, not the world of bariatrics. She should find a new job, one outside of medicine.

DS most certainly does correct


Please tell me what DS is. I have been following this thread, and know what you are all saying except for this.

There is a website that can do far more for the sake of clarity than I can.

www.DSFacts.com

I don't have metabolic problems, I just plain ate too much and couldn't stop. I don't have the mojo, self motivation or whatever it is that it takes to be thin without surgery. I'll cop to it all! But, since I didn't want malabsorption and I don't have metabolic issues I did not research DS as in depth as I did the sleeve.

I've read the studies, I know the answers, I don't know the 'how' of DS. I just know the end result.

I have yet to hear the explanation for how mutilating healthy organs corrects a metabolic disorder.

The whole "diabetes epidemic" started quite suddenly thirty or forty years ago. So when I'm looking for a cause, and a cure, I'm not going to think the problem is in biological systems that have been working well for millions of years.

Much less subjecting ten year olds to a procedure with proven deadly risks to prevent something that only might happen.

Wow... I don't understand how you can have so much bias on a topic when you have so much wrong information about that very topic. A little education goes a long way.

It's not mutilation, if it was medicine wouldn't be permitted to do it. See how that works?

There is a hormonal chain of events in the gut, DS changes that chain of hormonal events. You can read more at the link above.

Diabetes has been around as long as humans have been around. In the 1800s it was diagnosed when your doctor 'tasted' your urine and found it to be sweet. (I collect antiquarian medical books). Testing blood sugars on a routine basis (adding it to a chem panel) wasn't done until about 40 years ago. Amazingly they found lots of diabetics.

Where in the world did ANYONE suggest doing WLS on a 10 year old? Show me this post, I will disagree with that person.

Or... is it your way of changing words around to suit your agenda? HA! I do believe it is. Why not just use truth? It would make you look much better.

I think WLS in a 10 year old should be medical malpractice, so let's just get that clear.

And for the 3rd time, please explain to me how removing the fundus of my stomach makes my body work badly. You aren't making this stuff up, or are you?

Why cant we realize that we are not all cookie cutter individuals and what works for 1 doesn't work for everyone?? We all have to make the decisions that make our lives worth living and what is best for our families.

I at 45 decided along with my family to have a mommy makeover and I along with my family alone can only understand what it is like to have this HUGE apron of skin that hung around my waist gone - It has made a huge postitive difference in my life and until you have had to experience it you won't ever know as with other that have chosen WL surgery or LC lifestyle we all do what will enrich our lives for the better and not to is only robbing us and our loved ones.

I fully agree with you. What is mutilation to one is life saving to another.

My issue is being so glaringly ill-informed about a topic and writing nonsense about it. It's not fair to those who WLS might be of benefit and are looking for accurate info. People use message boards such as this to research what is right for them and how to go about doing it.

Most WLS folks do low carb, there isn't a surgery type out there that fixes white carbs. There are restrictive only surgeries and there are restrictive/malabsorptive surgeries. DS is the only one that malabsorbs some complex carbs. So there are many people who will have or have had WLS that would benefit from this very board.

Suggesting that I paid $20K to mutilate myself is insulting and degrading. I am at goal, I am happy.

I'm thrilled for you that you had your mommy make-over. I plan to do the same. I'm going to be one good looking 50 y/o in a year or two!

So tell me, just how much does a tummy tuck hurt? Or... do I want to know?

I sent you a private message on my mommy makeover

Thank you! I got your message but cannot respond, your PM box is full.

So THANK YOU! Thanks for the info.