Active Low-Carber Forums
Atkins diet and low carb discussion provided free for information only, not as medical advice.
Home Plans Tips Recipes Tools Stories Studies Products
Active Low-Carber Forums
A sugar-free zone


Welcome to the Active Low-Carber Forums.
Support for Atkins diet, Protein Power, Neanderthin (Paleo Diet), CAD/CALP, Dr. Bernstein Diabetes Solution and any other healthy low-carb diet or plan, all are welcome in our lowcarb community. Forget starvation and fad diets -- join the healthy eating crowd! You may register by clicking here, it's free!

Go Back   Active Low-Carber Forums > Main Low-Carb Diets Forums & Support > Low-Carb Studies & Research / Media Watch > Low-Carb War Zone
User Name
Password
FAQ Members Calendar Mark Forums Read Search Gallery My P.L.A.N. Survey


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31   ^
Old Mon, Mar-14-11, 20:56
Merpig's Avatar
Merpig Merpig is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 7,582
 
Plan: EF/Fung IDM/keto
Stats: 375/225.4/175 Female 66.5 inches
BF:
Progress: 75%
Location: NE Florida
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiggerz
Also wanted to add, after bypass surgery the following are no-no's forever:

Chewing gum
Sodas
NSAIDS (which blows, ibuprofen was always my choice)
Greasy foods
Sweets

Sincerely there's little "missing them" because I know that if I try them, they'll make me sick. An easy lesson to learn quickly.
I'm just curious about these. What makes them no-nos? I mean I can make guesses for soda or greasy foods - and sweets seem like a bad idea anyway. But why no gum or NSAIDs? I admit I usually do chew a stick or two of gum every day to help keep my breath fresh.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #32   ^
Old Tue, Mar-15-11, 14:26
Bipley's Avatar
Bipley Bipley is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 296
 
Plan: My own version of Atkins
Stats: 252/135/150 Female 65 Inches
BF:
Progress: 115%
Location: Mexico
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jenx
I have to say I am shocked someone weighing only 221 lbs would be a candidate, though it seems like it was successful.


For surgery? Really? I'm 5/5, let's say I weighed 221, my BMI would be 36.8, that is seriously obese.

18.5 - 24.9 Normal weight

25.0 - 29.9 Overweight

30.0 - 34.9 Obese

35.0 - 39.9 Seriously Obese

40.0 - 49.0 Morbidly Obese

50.0+ Malignantly Obese

I had my revision from band to sleeve when I was a BMI of 20.8. I knew if I lost my band I would regain. I refused to have it removed without doing the sleeve.

Did you know the US is in the minority when it comes to surgery requirements and BMI? MOST countries will do WLS on anyone with a BMI of 30, we are one of the few countries that waits for people to be higher risk and have heart disease, joint damage, diabetes, etc. before we will do WLS. They can usually self pay with a BMI of 30 or greater but for insurance it has to be higher.

As a nurse I would rather see someone have surgery at a 30BMI vs. waiting for them to be a much higher surgical risk down the road.

Australia will do WLS on someone with a BMI of 30 under their socialized medicine program. Germany, Mexico, Chile, and most countries do it with a BMI of 30+.

I'm all for it.
Reply With Quote
  #33   ^
Old Tue, Mar-15-11, 14:35
Bipley's Avatar
Bipley Bipley is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 296
 
Plan: My own version of Atkins
Stats: 252/135/150 Female 65 Inches
BF:
Progress: 115%
Location: Mexico
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Merpig
I'm just curious about these. What makes them no-nos? I mean I can make guesses for soda or greasy foods - and sweets seem like a bad idea anyway. But why no gum or NSAIDs? I admit I usually do chew a stick or two of gum every day to help keep my breath fresh.


Different doctors have different rules. Soda is usually a no-no because of the sugar and carbonation. Some believe, and I doubt this - that it can stretch the bypassed person's pouch.

High fat or high sugar foods aren't great with weight loss and for those with RNY they can dump and that's not pretty.

Gum is because with bypass there is a very small hole between the pouch and small intestine where food passes. Swallowing gum could block that hole.

The NSAID rule is for bypass folks only, due to the new anatomy of their stomach they are at higher risk for ulcers. Their stomach is divided into a pouch and a reminent stomach. The extra stomach can't be easily scoped like their pouch can.

I don't have these rules with a sleeve, well... at least with everything but sugar. A sleeve is my stomach but smaller. That's all. Fully functioning, no bypassed intestine .. nothing. My stomach but smaller.
Reply With Quote
  #34   ^
Old Tue, Mar-15-11, 17:03
jschwab jschwab is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,378
 
Plan: Atkins72/Paleo/NoGrain/IF
Stats: 285/220/200 Female 5 feet 5.5 inches
BF:
Progress: 76%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bipley
For surgery? Really? I'm 5/5, let's say I weighed 221, my BMI would be 36.8, that is seriously obese.

18.5 - 24.9 Normal weight

25.0 - 29.9 Overweight

30.0 - 34.9 Obese

35.0 - 39.9 Seriously Obese

40.0 - 49.0 Morbidly Obese

50.0+ Malignantly Obese

I had my revision from band to sleeve when I was a BMI of 20.8. I knew if I lost my band I would regain. I refused to have it removed without doing the sleeve.

Did you know the US is in the minority when it comes to surgery requirements and BMI? MOST countries will do WLS on anyone with a BMI of 30, we are one of the few countries that waits for people to be higher risk and have heart disease, joint damage, diabetes, etc. before we will do WLS. They can usually self pay with a BMI of 30 or greater but for insurance it has to be higher.

As a nurse I would rather see someone have surgery at a 30BMI vs. waiting for them to be a much higher surgical risk down the road.

Australia will do WLS on someone with a BMI of 30 under their socialized medicine program. Germany, Mexico, Chile, and most countries do it with a BMI of 30+.

I'm all for it.



Good for the US. I find it odd that healthy people would submit to such a surgery and unconscionable that doctors would find it ethical to perform it. I weigh 211 today at 5'5", am fully healthy by all standard markers, can beat the butts off many women half my size in road races, and can run up to 12-15 miles with no problem - have done similar at 230 lbs. I would be an idiot to submit to such surgery. I'm not saying these surgeries are wrong for everybody, but they are not for healthy people who are physically capable. It completely violates the Hippocratic oath.
Reply With Quote
  #35   ^
Old Tue, Mar-15-11, 17:07
kwikdriver's Avatar
kwikdriver kwikdriver is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,581
 
Plan: No grains, no sugar.
Stats: 001/045/525 Male 72
BF:
Progress: 8%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jschwab
I'm not saying these surgeries are wrong for everybody, but they are not for healthy people who are physically capable. It completely violates the Hippocratic oath.



There's also mental health, and there are plenty of people who are no more overweight than you who are suffering physical problems as a result. If those people, and their doctors, feel WLS is the best alternative for them, then they should be able to get it.
Reply With Quote
  #36   ^
Old Tue, Mar-15-11, 17:14
jschwab jschwab is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,378
 
Plan: Atkins72/Paleo/NoGrain/IF
Stats: 285/220/200 Female 5 feet 5.5 inches
BF:
Progress: 76%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kwikdriver
There's also mental health, and there are plenty of people who are no more overweight than you who are suffering physical problems as a result. If those people, and their doctors, feel WLS is the best alternative for them, then they should be able to get it.


If there is a problem, OK, I can sort of begin to see it, but in the absence of a direct weight-related issue, I consider this unethical. It's major surgery and risky. The general anesthesia alone is enough of a reason not to do elective surgery this way.
Reply With Quote
  #37   ^
Old Wed, Mar-16-11, 05:19
Bipley's Avatar
Bipley Bipley is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 296
 
Plan: My own version of Atkins
Stats: 252/135/150 Female 65 Inches
BF:
Progress: 115%
Location: Mexico
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jschwab
Good for the US. I find it odd that healthy people would submit to such a surgery and unconscionable that doctors would find it ethical to perform it. I weigh 211 today at 5'5", am fully healthy by all standard markers, can beat the butts off many women half my size in road races, and can run up to 12-15 miles with no problem - have done similar at 230 lbs. I would be an idiot to submit to such surgery. I'm not saying these surgeries are wrong for everybody, but they are not for healthy people who are physically capable. It completely violates the Hippocratic oath.


Your BMI is 35.1. Just what do you find healthy about being seriously obese?

I'd not be so quick to pat the US on the butt. The FDA just recently approved the lap band for a BMI of 30 w/comorbids or 35 without.

I maintain easily at 135. You?

And since you seem to know it all, do tell.... what makes you think even a majority of medical students still take the Hippocratic oath anymore?

Some doctors want to actually help their patients... yeah, gasp.

If you are physically healthy while being seriously obese, good for you. Most are not. Good for doctors who actually treat the problem. Some are in denial, most are not.
Reply With Quote
  #38   ^
Old Wed, Mar-16-11, 05:20
Bipley's Avatar
Bipley Bipley is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 296
 
Plan: My own version of Atkins
Stats: 252/135/150 Female 65 Inches
BF:
Progress: 115%
Location: Mexico
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kwikdriver
There's also mental health, and there are plenty of people who are no more overweight than you who are suffering physical problems as a result. If those people, and their doctors, feel WLS is the best alternative for them, then they should be able to get it.


hear hear!
Reply With Quote
  #39   ^
Old Wed, Mar-16-11, 05:23
Bipley's Avatar
Bipley Bipley is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 296
 
Plan: My own version of Atkins
Stats: 252/135/150 Female 65 Inches
BF:
Progress: 115%
Location: Mexico
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jschwab
If there is a problem, OK, I can sort of begin to see it, but in the absence of a direct weight-related issue, I consider this unethical. It's major surgery and risky. The general anesthesia alone is enough of a reason not to do elective surgery this way.


In your opinion. But most of us do not want to be fat.

Try harder, you'll see more clearly.

Merely running at your weight can cause damage to your knees. What is healthy about that?

I am speaking from experience.
Reply With Quote
  #40   ^
Old Wed, Mar-16-11, 06:02
jenx's Avatar
jenx jenx is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 211
 
Plan: exercise / atkins / IF
Stats: 315/160/150 Female 5'5"
BF:Less and less!
Progress: 94%
Location: New Hampshire
Default

Bipley you weigh 211? Charts be damned, I don't find that seriously obese at all.
Reply With Quote
  #41   ^
Old Wed, Mar-16-11, 06:29
abbykitty abbykitty is offline
New Member
Posts: 355
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 173/171/128 Female 5'6"
BF:
Progress: 4%
Location: Dallas, TX
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jenx
Bipley you weigh 211? Charts be damned, I don't find that seriously obese at all.


she's 135. what are you talking about?
Reply With Quote
  #42   ^
Old Wed, Mar-16-11, 06:50
jenx's Avatar
jenx jenx is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 211
 
Plan: exercise / atkins / IF
Stats: 315/160/150 Female 5'5"
BF:Less and less!
Progress: 94%
Location: New Hampshire
Default

I should have said jschwab, my bad.
Reply With Quote
  #43   ^
Old Wed, Mar-16-11, 07:36
cldade55's Avatar
cldade55 cldade55 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 530
 
Plan: Keto
Stats: 194/159/145 Female 5 feet 6 inches
BF:
Progress: 71%
Location: NYC
Default

jschwab and bipley both have good points. BMI is not the only marker for surgery. If you are otherwise healthy, surgery is an unnecessary risk. If you are not otherwise healthy, why wait until your weight is even more out of control before you do the surgery.
Reply With Quote
  #44   ^
Old Wed, Mar-16-11, 07:44
jschwab jschwab is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,378
 
Plan: Atkins72/Paleo/NoGrain/IF
Stats: 285/220/200 Female 5 feet 5.5 inches
BF:
Progress: 76%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cldade55
jschwab and bipley both have good points. BMI is not the only marker for surgery. If you are otherwise healthy, surgery is an unnecessary risk. If you are not otherwise healthy, why wait until your weight is even more out of control before you do the surgery.



Why not just change your diet and exercise and focus on real health? If you tell me that you cannot walk a mile at 221 pounds, I say that is a matter of conditioning and you need to practice. If you care more about being as thin as possible, health be damned, by all means. But no doctor can pretend that major abdominal surgery is not without some serious risks. Some people do fine, but every one I know in real life is just as fat as ever, and sicker. And it's major abdominal surgery. And what bipley is saying is that she would like to see everyone over BMI 30 be able to get this surgery paid by insurance. If I can run and dance and live a healthy life and this weight, I'll be damned if I will ever feel like my insurance pool money should be used for vanity surgery.
Reply With Quote
  #45   ^
Old Wed, Mar-16-11, 08:23
jenx's Avatar
jenx jenx is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 211
 
Plan: exercise / atkins / IF
Stats: 315/160/150 Female 5'5"
BF:Less and less!
Progress: 94%
Location: New Hampshire
Default

I agree. I've lost over 100 pounds and though I'd love to lose lots more, the thought of having surgery while only being in the low-to-mid 200 lb range seems crazy to me. To ME. But I understand others do what they feel is right for them. It is just such an invasive, scary, life-altering procedure that doesn't HAVE to be.

Maybe it's not too PC to say this, but we ALL ate ourselves up to a certain weight. And we can all eat less and/or right foods (LC) to get back down. Even at weights much, much higher than 220-odd pounds. By the same token we can also be quite healthy at that weight. YMMV
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:33.


Copyright © 2000-2024 Active Low-Carber Forums @ forum.lowcarber.org
Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.