I realized my math is off. It's actually about 29 calories, not 16. In any way, none of this stuff adds up and that always bugs me.

Nope, basically I send you a loaf of the zero carb bread and I include a shipping label in the box so that you can then take that loaf and ship it directly to the lab to be tested. That way you know that what is tested is actually the zero carb bread.

-lindasdd

I guess that makes sense due to changes in moisture content,etc. We can have that done instead. I will let the baker know.

-lindasdd

Oh, never mind.

We can do the "new math" or metric or net carbs or whatever but no one will be able to convince me that the above ingredients will prodice a "zero" carb bread.

This isn't my first rodeo.

I have pretty good instincts,if I didn't, I wouldn't be as good in my job as I am.

When do we finally say...stop the madness (scratching my head)

JMO

Lisa

I'm an engineer and I deal with numbers all the time, and it always bugs me when none of the numbers add up. When I see this kind of thing I suspect either the people putting the numbers out don't know what they are doing or are lying to me.

And this silliness about having someone else send in the loaf of bread for testing is just meaningless. Who knows what is in the loaf being tested? Or if it is even the same recipe as what is being sold? Sending it through a third party does not increase the likelihood of getting a meaningful answer, and the suggestion makes me suspicious in and of itself. Send it to me and I will inject a 1/2 pound of sugar in it and see what the analysis shows. That would tell me something.

*A* loaf? Back in post #22, you wrote that the lab requires a sample size of 10 loaves.

Why Medallion, which is located in Minneapolis? There are labs much closer to Miami, which perform the same service. The Institute of Food Technology (Chicago) maintains a directory for the food industry. Here's a list of labs that do food analyses .. just scanning quickly I can see at least one in Florida.


Doreen

However ...

All this blather about labs and shipping and bakers with good intentions is nothing more than a diversion from the REAL issue, which is that the recently posted lab report is fake. Is it a joke? because I'm not laughing. I don't even want to waste my time debunking it line by line. Nonetheless, I'll point out a few things.


1. It's supposedly a 2-page report of a single sample, yet both pages are "Page 1 of 2"?

2. 58.439% moisture. Really??? A slice of pumpkin pie is 59% moisture. Most breads and rolls are 35 - 42% moisture. What was this sample? .. raw dough???

3. I saved a copy of the previous lab report (claimed to be from December 2008), and compared it to this recently posted one, dated October 2007. On both reports, the values for ash, total fats and fatty acids are *exactly* the same, right down to the 1/1000 decimal point. Really??? Pulleeeezz

.

4. Insoluble fiber 14.2% + soluble fiber 1.7% = 15.9% .. not 16.9%. If you're going to "create" a report, at least get the basic math right. And please don't try to cough up some excuse about inulin.

5. Wheat and wheat-based breads contain little to no vitamin C or B12 or many of the other vitamins and minerals listed. The list is not believable.


The whole thing is not believable.





Doreen

Doreen.

I looked this over and my thought is WTF...

Why should the low carb community be testing these products. The manufacturer should be hiring a reputable 3rd party lab and allowing us access to the testing results.

Until then my 80 pounds of lost fat is too valuable to risk on any so called low carb product.

Just what I think.

If it needs to be 10 loaves then 10 will be sent. Although as you mentioned, it has to be put in those containers so doing it direct would probably just be best.

I believe Medallion labs was chosen because they are one of the more respected labs and they are one of the few that actually tests for inulin. This answer is based on my understanding, not a response provided by the baker.

-lindasdd

I'm not sure the reasoning for this. I didn't look at that part of the report before posting, but instead made sure the Medallion Labs Sample ID and the Customer Sample ID numbers were the same. My conclusion would be that if they were the same, the two pages are from the same report.


It sounds crazy, but because the bread is all fiber, the amount of moisture used when creating the dough and baking it is enormous. Way more than regular bread. Whether that actual transfers into a high moisture content on the lab report for the final bread I don't know. I just know that even regular bakers are very surprised when they work with the dough used and see how much water it "drinks".


I have no idea how this could be, so I will see what he says.


Doreen, for this one it seems like you are implying this report was created, not sent from Medallion Labs. While I don't know if that is the case or not, I can tell you that no changes were made to the document sent to me from the baker.

-lindasdd

Hey John,
Sorry if their was a miscommunication. I wasn't implying that the low carb community should test the products. Rather, if the people themselves sent the bread in, it would be understood that the actual item sent to the lab was in fact bread and not something else.

-Andrew

I'm not exactly sure where to take this from here.

I guess lets do this:
- give me your input on how you would like the test to be handled
- it seems we have agreed that the baker sending 10 loaves direct to the lab will work fine
- should we try and have the lab takes pics of the bread upon receipt?
- should we have the lab themselves post the test results and come in to discuss the results?

I'm worried that even with all that, some of you will still cry foul, but I think it is the best we can expect in this situation. Unless someone has some other ideas.

Let me know because I and certainly it seems you, want to get to the bottom of this so it is either proven or disproven and we can move on.

-lindasdd

Admit "defeat" and walk away? I know these aren't YOUR products, but if NONE of the reports we've seen thus far make sense, chances are the new reports won't add up, either.

lindasdd,

Here is the situation. You have stumbled up one of the most active low carb forums on the internet.

There are people who have been doing this for a very long time, and take this very seriously. There are people who become experts in Low carb because their lives and their health depend on it.

We have seen many companies come and go who have produced things labeled Low Carb or Zero Carb. We aren't going to take it on "Trust Me."

For many of us, losing weight has been a lifetime struggle. I am currently at an 80 pound loss with another 40 to go, your claims mean nothing to me unless I can have it scientifically backed up and the reports make sense.

For many of us, our weighloss has been stalled by so called "Frankenfoods" which use soy isolates and other types of matter to mimic real life foods. So we are very skeptical when someone comes in telling us about zero carb BREAD, when we know that wheat and grains do have an effect on blood insulin.

On top of it, you come in, you have posted a grand total of 20 times and you are retailer for the company. Which means you have a vested interest in this.

Also in a post you said they send out the bread a couple of times a year for testing, yet its 2010, and the reports you are holding up are from 2008. So there should be 2 tests from 2009 and one Maybe 2 from 2010 that are supposedly out there. The reports we should be seeing should be the most recent ones, not from two years ago.

Just saying...

You know what this reminds me of...

It reminds me of the poor researchers who have spent so much money and invested so much time, have made their research their lifes work but the results of their research just don't add up to the anticpated hypothesis. The poor researchers try every manipulation and permutation of the data to try and get the results they want, but it never adds up...so much invested, so much time lost, so much of the soul given, how can they possibly give up the belief.

The old saying...."if you can't dazzle them with your brillance, baffle them with your bullsh!t"

Sounds a bit like how we got here with the LF SAD.

I am done here.

To all those who meticulously reviewed the data, I thank you. It was enlightening (and entertaining to say the least).

Lisa