i feel you on this happy. that's why i abandoned lc and went back to my vegetarian ways. i'm tired of skipping from one plan to another, so now i just consider myself vlc-zero carb. when i have a taste for veggies i eat them. i'm enjoying meat right now probably because i went so long without it. when i get sick of it, i'll eat fish more often (i've always loved fish, i'd just deprive myself of it). when i want fruit, i'll eat half of an apple or some berries (i just don't have a taste for fruit right now). i know what's off limits for me (beans, grains, gluten). dairy was once on that list, but since going back to lc i haven't been having any problems with it (which is quite a shock).

all the women in my family have serious health problems, but their attitude is "oh well, we all got to go sometime...so i'm going to eat what i want!"

i'm not going out like that! i want to live life feeling great, not sick and in pain.

don't give up...i have a feeling you are very close to finding a customized woe that you'll have for the rest of your life!

I wish I were as optimistic as you!

All I know is this:

1. I want to just eat "food" and not think about it.

2. I know I can't do that. When I eat wheat I end up with such bad joint pain I can't turn my head (neck stiffness), walk up stairs (knee pain), or drive (finger joint pain).

3. Meat, dairy and eggs seem to be the best choices, nutritionally.

4. I can't eat meat, dairy and eggs. I practically choke on them.

5. I love vegetables, fruit, potatoes and brown rice.

6. They don't love me so much. (I'm hoping that's just a time issue. Maybe after so many years of low carb I need to build up the proper enzymes.)

7. Is anybody else as bored by this as I am right now?

8. I feel like the best diet for me is vegan, but I want the best nutrition.

To all the nutrition experts here (and there are lots of them!) -

Is "flexitarian" a good option? Would eating meat or eggs occasionally give me whatever nutrients and fats I need?

What about vegetables, fruit, tubers and a little fish every day? Kitavan diet, it works well for them.

And lots of coconut.

I knew I had forgotten something.

I know Matt Stone's had a bit of bad press on here, but have you read his free ebook ? Sounds like his info would be a good fit for you.

I've been on 180 for six months now, and I'm afraid to promote it because it might all be a fluke. But I don't think so. I feel pretty good. My mood is good. My digestion is good. I was formerly-underweight, and had never, EVER, been able to reach the weight I am now (I've gone up two sizes!), on vegan or low-carb. Even with lots of high-calorie junk food I was skinny. I've even be able to get off almost all the pills I was taking.

So, I guess I'm confident enough to suggest it, at least.

He'd probably agree that meat and eggs don't HAVE to be an every day thing. But he might have some tips for you there, if you leave a comment on his blog. He answers questions.

As for number seven? I have been. Many times. It sucks.

Low carb vegetarian? It's hard to do unless you're into soy or you allow yourself a bit more in carb allowance. All most all the low carb plans I've seen would allow this.

Vegetarian that cuts out the worst of carbs? It might take a bit more self control as you wouldn't have ketosis as a diet re-enforcer. Limit your fruit intake (and then only the lower carb choices like berries, melons, and some of the lower sugar tree fruits), no grains or starchy veg or carby legumes, no refined sugar, but no other rules.

Just giving up and doing all meat? Sounds counter-intuitive, but I am also someone who actually doesn't like meat all that much. I did about a month of all meat, and now I think meat and I have come to an understanding. I would much rather be a vegetarian, but I've also come to learn that life doesn't always work on your terms. My mind and heart are vegetarian, but they have to learn to live in their mostly carnivore body.

I think for me it also doesn't help that I "came of age" as a vegetarian and vegan. My identity is so wrapped up in that, and so many of my friends I made and had from my teens to early twenties are (still) vegetarian and vegans. Plus, I am much more politically similar to people who tend to be vegetarians, it is really hard for me to "come out" as someone who doesn't only eat meat, but has a diet centred around meat. I don't know if you can relate to any of this.

Some plans don't really feature meat as the main thing. Like South Beach. I mean, you could happily be vegetarian or even flexitarian whilst following SB. Or some of the low GI/GL diets (although I really think it's scary how some of the GI/GL gurus push things like agave syrup which is fructose heavy).

There are really a lot of plant foods which are allowable on many low carb plans. If you don't absolutely need to be in ketosis for diets to work for you, just focusing on plant based, low starch food with plenty of fats coming from good plant sources might work for you.

You could then add nuts, seeds, things like tempeh, low carb Quorn products, the lower carb legumes.
You could then add ethically sourced animal foods as tolerated and look into fish and seafood.

You know what works for you, and if low fat vegan isn't, you can't force your body to act upon your wishes. But also, you don't have to rigidly follow something like Atkins to have great success.

Good luck.

I rushed to the computer this morning to delete that whiney tirade (brought to you by PMS and two glasses of cabernet), and found so many nice responses. And good ones, too! Thank you.

Mirrorball and NancyLC - A Kitavan-type plan sounds good...but I've neve been much of a fish eater. I could certainly try, though.

Kaity - Congratulations on your success with Matt's diet. I'm afraid the last thing I want to do is go up two sizes. I know that's not the intended result of it, but from what I've been reading over there, people seem to be gaining weight.

Moggsy - You won't believe this, but I woke up this morning thinking of just eating meat. I tried it last November, and that month was the best I ever felt. Unfortunately, it was also close to the worst I ever felt. I was thinking about it again because my eczema's back and on the all-meat diet it went away almost immediately. I don't think it would be a good long-term solution, nutritionally, but meat is the food that agrees with me the best. Instead of whining for somebody to figure out a magical lowcarb diet filled with rice and potatoes for me, maybe I should just put on my big girl pants and eat the meat. And when/if I start feeling bad like I did after three weeks last November, just add in vegetables and fruit, not everything under the sun, like I did last time.

The main problem there is that I've given myself quite a complex regarding meat and animals and all that. That's just a mind thing that I have to get over.

(Edited to correct pre-coffee typos.)

"Why do lowfat vegans have good results?"

Are you ready to change the title of this thread now? Perhaps it should be "Why do highfat carnivores have good results?"

You know, I think there is maybe some addiction thing going on with you. Yeah, that stuff tastes good, it's fun to eat, sure eating all meat can get a bit monotonous. But if it's an addiction, teasing yourself with it all the time sure isn't going to help you kick it. I've found you gotta really give yourself some time away from foods you seem to be overly fond of before you can put the lid on the cravings. Otherwise it's like giving a little bit of crack to an addict and expecting they can control themselves.

I have never eaten vegan, nor do I know anyone who eats vegan, BUT....we have a local health food store/co-op that is heavily vegan, and every time I go in there I am struck by how incredibly unhealthy everyone looks. All the grains perhaps....

It does seem to be heading that way, doesn't it?




I think you might not be the first person to tell me this. (I can be a little thick-headed.) I do remember feeling completely free of any cravings for the first time in my life while doing meat only. It was wonderfully freeing. But I felt like total crap after about three weeks. Someone (Capmikee?) suggested I needed to eat more, that my symptoms sounded like starvation.

I think I'm gearing up for another go at it.

smart thinking.

I think I made the same observation about our coop earlier in the thread. It's stressful to see young people (idealistic and all) suffering from their diets.

I remember when I was young I had this notion that suffering was really noble and wonderful. I don't think I actually implemented any actual plan that involved suffering though. Maybe I wasn't the only young'un afflicted with such nonsensical thoughts. I must've realized at some level that it was the idea of suffering that was cool, not the actual suffering part.