I use this argument a lot, but when people challenged me on it, sometimes I felt foolish; after all, apples have an incredibly long season in the United States and they keep for a very long time. You can eat local apples for more than half the year with no late-20th century technology.

But my wife was just reading about Johnny Appleseed. Apparently in his day grafting was as abominable as GMO is today - and sweet apples don't breed true so they have to be grafted. His mission was to preserve the natural way of propagating apples, but his apples weren't for eating because they were too sour. They were for making hard cider.

It wasn't until Temperance that apples became a food. It's amazing how many foods we think of as traditional have barely been around for 100 years. I'm inclined to think people were healthier when they got their carbs from alcohol. It may be that Temperance was the final victory for the world's biggest addiction!

I got the HCl at whole foods, the one in the brown glass bottle. I posted a picture of the brand I have at the bottom. I believe it only uses calcium as a binder.

The bacon I get is the "uncured" stuff from trader joes as it seems to be the least salty. I think you need sugar for the curing process but the label says 0gms for 2 slices.

The metallic thing is odd. I'd recommend to just keep eating meat and find your HCl level and let it all balance out. It takes time, just remember that. It's a big switch for your body. Also, if your HCl levels are too low, you arn't fully digesting your meat so you will be hungrier because you aren't getting the calories you need. This can also be dangerous if you have leaky gut because the undigested proteins can leak. It definitely sounds like you aren't digesting your meat very well.

I used to have a lot of grassfed meat but couldn't really feel a difference. I feel great eating only grain-fed meat. I think once you stop eating crap that drains your body of nutrients and calm down the insulin levels, your body can finally regain homeostasis and get the nutrient level in your body to optimum level. If it's really tough on your wallet, I'd say don't even worry about it.

Make sure you eat meat that is rare to medium at most. Once you go above medium, a lot of the nutrients are lost.






The Caveman: stalemate...

Don't feel foolish. People will always find an argument to justify their carb addictions. Apples are a product of agriculture. The the crabapple tree would not have been everywhere and when they were there, they would be sour and nothing like today's modern breeds like you said. If you had all that meat why would you even attempt to eat such a sour and uninviting plant food? Plant food would be a last resort. We can eat them but we weren't made to. Interesting history lesson there! Thanks!

Yeah, that's what I've been saying to myself for the last 4 years. I've been below 20g carbs the whole time, and every year I have fewer fruits and vegetables. We'll see if I ever really get there.

On the bright side, this year my gray hair started disappearing. I've also noticed that for the first time ever, I have no white spots on my fingernails. Some people say they're not a sign of mineral deficiency, but I think they're wrong.


It's not so much the wallet as that nobody in my family likes the taste. I've gotten used to the taste but I can't seem to get the texture of grassfed hamburgers right. Last night I tried warming them for an extra-long time and searing them really quickly on the grill. They were perfectly pink all the way through, but the surface got dry and tough instead of brown and flavorful.

I never had a problem with cornfed meat before, and I'm still fine with the steak, but for some reason the hamburger bugs me. I have no reason to believe this, but my gut reaction tells me it's contaminated with heavy metals. It's probably not that at all, but if my body is telling me it doesn't want it, I'll listen. I have other options.


I've been pretty careful about that for years. I've always loved rare meat and it definitely feels more nourishing. But the past few months I've found it nauseating sometimes and I'll cook it more on purpose. I also never liked stewed meat before, but now I'm really into lamb and pork shoulder cooked for 24 hours in the crock pot.

If you say so. Again.

I started carnivore eating to stop cravings. When I was doing low-carb with vegetables, I did resolve a lot of my health issues, but falling on and off the wagon due to cravings was a constant battle and weight loss just wasn't happening.

Carnivore eating has gotten me to below 200 pounds for the first time in over a decade. I have no intestinal issues and no cravings as long as I stay away from additives. I still have coffee and heavy cream and it doesn't seem to derail me.

The biggest problem for me and I'm sure other people although they may not realize it, is that low-carbing using low-carb frankinfoods and dressings, sauces, and protein bars, is that all of these contain additives even though low in carbs. In my opinion this is what derails people.

Carnivore eating is clean eating because the only additives you'll find are those you sprinkle on yourself. Ground meat is another problem because unless you grind your meat yourself, you never know what's been added to it.

Listening to your body is another aspect of carnivore eating I like. I cannot tolerate the smell of beef and stick to pork, chicken, salmon and eggs.

Exactly! Even a little bit of veggies sends me into cravings. Congrats on the weight and health.

That's why I avoid bacon. I used to be a hardcore label-reader but my skillz have slipped because I don't eat anything with a label any more.

I don't know about Mikesg's argument that caveman wouldn't have wanted to eat bitter greens and sour fruits. I know if I eat too much meat I REALLY want to eat sour things, I drink water with a lot of lemon juice (like 1/4 cup per 16oz water). I think sour is a marker for certain nutrients like vit c and you really do need that stuff sometimes. Also, if you aren't eating sugar and hfcs then sour fruits taste really good and a little sweet so I don't believe cavemen would have been disgusted by them. I also feel like eating bitter things like greens too, especially after I eat a bunch of fat.

I think the carnivorous diet is just not realistic unless you are eating all the parts of the animal. It seems forced to me, HGs always use plant foods if they are available. Maybe there are people who don't need much plant nutrients but I know for sure I do.

TheCaveman, I like how you can say so much with so few words, it's a real talent.

I think what Mikesg was saying is that if you crave sour foods, your stomach may not be acidic enough. Taking HCl seems to have helped him.

I used to like bitter foods, but I don't anymore. I'm wondering if one day I'll stop craving sour foods too.

Mike, what is that HCl made from? One place I looked it up said it was found in "grains and other foods." What does it say about it on the bottle?

I am mostly carnivore with added cream, no fruit/veggies/grains, minimal carbs coming from seasonings.

It's easy, cheap, fast, and filling. No cravings, no questioning.

What really is forced to me is trying to keep a so-called balanced diet (w/plant matter) when there's no need for it. GCBC explains this well.

I know I definitely have low stomach acid so maybe you're right about my craving for lemon juice. Is there a natural way to get your stomach to start making more on it's own? I hate having to take pills.

The fact that you do canivore without any cravings is proof that you are not forcing anything. When I try to eat tons of meat or cut out carbs I feel so yucky that it really does feel like I am forcing myself to do something that feels wrong. Do you eat only meat or also organs? If my stomach could digest animal protein better I would probably not have any problem cutting out carbs if I also ate organs.

I eat liver from time to time, mostly because it's there and my BF likes it. I wouldn't go out of my way to get some. Also chicken hearts or livers, just because they come with the chicken..

If you can't do carnivore no one's hailing it as some religion, at least I don't.

Also feeling yucky is a normal period of adaptation, I've heard people say it went on for weeks on end. It was very short and mild for me.

hello meatwhiskey
welcome to the forum!