well I'm really not sure why it's any more "nuts" than any other meal I might eat. I mean it contains protein, fat carbs - and in fact it contains then in *exactly* my calculated ON ratios. I ran the ingredients through the recipe calculator on Lifeform and 1 slice/serving works out to:
fat: 28g
Net Carb: 5g
protein: 9g

so that is almost right on the money. Per ON for 9g of protein my other ratios should be fat: 22-31g, NC: 4.5-7g

So you can see the ratios are perfect. The amount of protein is equal to 14-17% of my daily total. If I allocate my protein evenly throughout three meals a day then that's about 33% per meal. So a slice of the bread would be about half my protein allocation for a meal. Sounds good to me. I had a slice for breakfast with my morning coffee, and it was a nice change from bacon and eggs. But since that was the only breakfast protein it leaves me even more for the upcoming meals.

Debbie, would you mind telling me more about the bread recipe you're using (maybe in the "what are you eating?" thread)?

The ones in the books all use white flour as a binder, and I can't have any gluten. I've been adapting recipes that were designed for the Specific Carbohyrate Diet, but it would be great to have some other ideas.

That's because I'm a piggy. A piggy who luckily doesn't have gluten or wheat issues. That means I can eat regular whole wheat bread piled with fats and only add 1 protein gram. Which means more protein in meats and veggies for me throughout the day.

Lisa

Okay, I had the impression that he was way higher on FAT percentages.

I happen to agree with you that these threads should not be entitled anything having to do with Dr. Kwasniewski nor with his Optimal Nutrition plans.

There are LOTS & lots & lots of threads about High Fat diets - in fact, in the Buddy & Challenges forums, there are a series of Fat Fiends messagethreads, and also all the Meat & Egg messagethreads.

Have you had a chance to examine all the recent messagethreads about fructose?

Seriously.

What amazed me about Dr.Kwasniewski's diets were that they are extremely low fructose -- and lots of recent research is showing how terrible fructose is for humnas, even those who don't have Fructose Malabsorption.

I'm going to have to read his books some day.

I am going to respectfully ask -- for the last time -- that if you quote me, you quote me accurately and in context and don't paraphrase or selectively choose my words to fit your interpretation. If you find yourself unable to do that, which involves nothing more than a quick cut and paste, please do not quote me at all.

I did NOT say, as you imply with your selective quote above, to "cut down on all the proteins." I DID say this:

"And you may need to cut down on all the proteins -- eggs and bacon and liverwurst and hamburger and cheese -- in a single day, and spread them out a bit over the course of a couple of days."

That's quite different than stating that I said to 'cut down on all the proteins.'

Clearly on this WOE, one is not able to eat all the proteins -- in a single day -- that one might like. I might enjoy eating a pound of beef tenderloin for a single meal, but the whopping 141 grams of protein it provided is my entire protein allottment for three full days. Nor have I ever implied that one should be eating veggies in place of animal protein or fats. EVER. So please stop saying that I have. As for my giving OD advice to others, I will continue to do so since I'm entitled to my reasoning, my research and my opinion. You may continue to give opposite advice. People on this forum are adults and very capable of choosing which advice to accept or reject.

You and I are not going to agree on much when it comes to choosing food for this diet. That's fine; we can amicably agree to disagree and even, from time to time, misunderstand each other. At those times I believe it would be best to ask the other person what they mean rather than assume what they mean -- and I am very happy to do that.

Again, do not continue to misquote me, paraphrase me and otherwise try to claim that I have said what I haven't, or that I haven't said what I have. I'd like to put an end to this dispute and move on.

Lisa

How is this different? If she spreads her current intake of animal proteins out over several days, she'll still be cutting down on the amount she's consuming per day (or per week, or per hour, or however you want to calculate it).

Anyway, it sounds like Debbie is doing a great job of staying within her protein range while eating foods she likes. It doesn't seem as if she has an overwhelming desire to eat a pound of beef tenderloin, or a five-egg omelette, or a triple cheeseburger (with or without a nut flour bun). If her portions are small -- as they are -- then there's no problem at all with the way she's eating. And her weight loss would seem to support that.

In general, people who have adjusted to the more concentrated nutrition of the Kwasniewski Optimal Diet don't feel the need to "fill up" on large servings of food, be it meat, vegetables, or whatever. It's sometimes an issue in the beginning -- as their stomachs are larger, due to having consumed so much fibrous food in the past -- but they do adjust to the smaller portion sizes in a fairly short time. At least, so saith Dr. K... and it seems to be working for many of us on here.

I must admit my appetite is FINALLY starting to diminish.

That's great Nancy!

Me too, yesterday I ate a ton of fat and today I'm barely eating anything at all. It looks like my body is able to regulate itself properly now.

Patrick

Of course, which was my point. By cutting down on the protein amount in a day to whatever she feels best (perhaps eating liverwurst on one day and cheese on another, just for example) she will achieve her stated goal (even though it's clearly not yours): to leave protein room for some veggies yet not exceed her daily allotment. Nowhere in my last sentence -- or in anything I've written previously on the matter -- states, suggests or implies that there would be any other reason for doing so, or that substituting vegetables for protein is what's required.

Since you seem incapable of doing as I suggested in my last post - to ask what I mean instead of assume what I mean - I will simply repeat politely the entire point of my writing to you on any topic whatsoever: disagree with me or not, that's immaterial. But quote me correctly and in context, or not at all.

Yes, mine too! Hooray, Hooray!

Someone on another thread posted a link to the recipe I'm using at:
http://homodiet.netfirms.com/menu/day_seven.htm

The recipe *does *call for 1 tbsp of bread crumbs and 4 tbsp of flour, but since I don't do wheat/gluten I just left them out! The recipe still came out perfectly well and holds together nicely. I just made the recipe as written except for the flour and breadcrumbs.

It is a *big *recipe. It made an entire loaf of bread and there was still enough batter left over that I made a dozen muffins as well! They are all in my freezer now so I can take out a muffin or a slice of bread as needed.

The only issue I had was the the muffins and bread *did* stick to the pans and I had trouble getting them out. I did butter the pans copiously but did *not* shake bread crumbs into them. Maybe if I made it again I could try something else to shake into the pans, a gluten-free flour of some sort.

Thanks for testing it without the gluten, Debbie, as I need to avoid it too. I think I'll try making ~1/2 of the recipe and making it in either my silicone muffin cups or loaf pan. I've never had anything stick to them. Once you've made it, you can use crumbs from this batch to prevent the next batch sticking.

Did it rise much in the oven?

Did you actually add the nutmeg? How'd it taste? I'm thinking mace or caraway would be more breadlike.

It rose enough that the batter began spilling out the top of the bread pan and I had to put a cookie sheet under it to catch the drips. So don't overfill the pans.

The good for me is being able to eat all the foods that Dr. jan recommends because I come from good eastern european peasant stock where we ate and drank tons of sour milk, pickled herrings, jellied pig's feet, etc. So I'm in heaven there. I also love brussel sprouts, turnips, cauliflower and green beans to which I add lots of butter, sour cream, cream, etc.

The bad is that I can't stay awake. I get sleepy by lunchtime. In fact, Sunday i had to take an afternoon nap and I NEVER do that. Hope this passes soon.