Paleo pregnancy : Paleolithic & Neanderthin Forum : Active Low-Carber Forums

#61 ^

Sun, Mar-08-09, 13:44

mineralman mineralman is offline

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Posts: 172

Plan: whole food
Stats: 160/160/160 Male 200

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i'll work on it, but i have to say 100% had no problems.

like i said theres more of a risk eating beef, spinach and peanuts then drinking raw milk

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#62 ^

Sun, Mar-08-09, 13:52

mineralman mineralman is offline

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Posts: 172

Plan: whole food
Stats: 160/160/160 Male 200

BF:
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Quote:

Now, I don’t think the bacteria “caused” their deaths any more than mosquitoes “cause” West Nile Virus. People get sick when their bodies are worn down, when their immune systems can’t take being overworked and under-supported anymore and when they are susceptible. Period. And those principles don’t change just because we are pregnant.

In fact, I think it’s more important to drink raw milk and yogurts during pregnancy than at any other time because the unadulterated probiotics actually prepare the vaginal wall for delivery. A healthy woman with a healthy level of beneficial bacteria in her birth canal actually gives the baby beneficial bacteria during birth to help fight infection in the first few days outside the womb. (I’ll post links/articles about how eating fermented foods can also assist in this process when I find them in my stacks.)
* 1997, 28 persons ill from Salmonella in California, ALL FROM PASTEURIZED MILK.

* 1996, 46 persons ill from Campylobacter & Salmonella in California. FROM PASTEURIZED MILK.

* 1994, 105 persons ill from E. coil and Listeria in California FROM PASTEURIZED MILK.

* March of 1985 19,660 confirmed cases of Salmonella typhimurium illness FROM CONSUMING PROPERLY PASTEURIZED MILK. Over 200,000 people ill from Salmonella typhimurium in PASTEURIZED MILK

* 1985, 142 cases and 47 deaths traced to PASTEURIZED Mexican-style cheese contaminated with Listeria monocytogenes. Listeria monocytogenes SURVIVES PASTEURIZATION!

* 1985, 1500 persons ill from Salmonella infection

* August of 1984 approximately 200 persons became ill with a Salmonella typhimurium from CONSUMING PASTEURIZED MILK

* November of 1984, another outbreak of Salmonella typhimurium illness from CONSUMING PASTEURIZED MILK

* 1983, over 49 persons with Listeria illness have been associated with the consumption of PASTEURIZED MILK in Massachusetts.

*1993, 28 persons ill from Salmonella infection

*1982, 172 persons ill (100 hospitalized) from a three Southern state area from PASTEURIZED MILK.

*1982, over 17,000 persons became ill with Yersinia enterocolitica from PASTEURIZED MILK bottled in Memphis, Tennessee.

Quote:

Nationally, according to the Centers for Disease Control, from 1998 to 2005 there were 1,007 illnesses and two deaths from raw milk or cheese consumption - a tiny fraction of the estimated 76 million total cases of foodborne illnesses each year

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/m...aw_milk/?page=2

http://www.honesthuman.com/?p=165

#63 ^

Mon, Mar-09-09, 09:05

ThriftyD

Senior Member

Posts: 199

Plan: Lacto-Paleo
Stats: 322/168/140 Female 5'8"

BF:
Progress: 85%

Location: South Carolina

When did we start talking about salmonella?

The grave danger is from LISTERIOSIS.

Quote:

In the United States, an estimated 2,500 persons become seriously ill with listeriosis each year. Of these, 500 die. At increased risk are:

Pregnant women - They are about 20 times more likely than other healthy adults to get listeriosis. About one-third of listeriosis cases happen during pregnancy.
Newborns - Newborns rather than the pregnant women themselves suffer the serious effects of infection in pregnancy.

I run a grade B goat dairy here in SC, and I drink raw milk all the time, but I would NEVER drink my own goat's milk (which I know is handled correctly) during pregnancy.

Listeria almost always = fetal death.

NO diet advantage is worth my baby's life. Period.

JMHO

#64 ^

Mon, Mar-09-09, 09:10

mineralman mineralman is offline

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Posts: 172

Plan: whole food
Stats: 160/160/160 Male 200

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i now contacted 18 women and all have reported benefits from raw milk during pregnancy.

can someone show me stories or fact that a pregnant women had a miscarriage due to this?

#65 ^

Mon, Mar-09-09, 09:15

mineralman mineralman is offline

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Posts: 172

Plan: whole food
Stats: 160/160/160 Male 200

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"Salad Recall

Gourmet Boutique of Jamaica, N.Y., is recalling 35 types of fresh and frozen products, which were distributed nationwide. It includes various salads and other products. It is voluntarily recalling 286,320 pounds of meat products that may be contaminated with Listeria monocytogenes, according to the U.S. Department of Agriculture’s Food and Safety Inspection Service."

i guess technically we shouldnt eat anything?

http://www.marlerblog.com/Recall_013-2008_Release.pdf

why not just buy milk thats routinely tested for Listeria?

Quote:

During the period 2000 through 2004 there were several listeria-related food recalls in California associated with pasteurized milk products and ice cream.

Last edited by mineralman : Mon, Mar-09-09 at 09:25.

#66 ^

Mon, Mar-09-09, 09:31

ThriftyD

Senior Member

Posts: 199

Plan: Lacto-Paleo
Stats: 322/168/140 Female 5'8"

BF:
Progress: 85%

Location: South Carolina

Quote:

Originally Posted by mineralman

i now contacted 18 women and all have reported benefits from raw milk during pregnancy.

can someone show me stories or fact that a pregnant women had a miscarriage due to this?

You need anecdotal evidence to believe? I guess scientific studies don't cut it, eh?

This is from the American Society of Microbiology:

Quote:

Pregnancy-related listeriosis primarily affects the fetus or neonate. The maternal reaction to the presence of Listeria infection is generally an influenza-like episode with fever, backache, and perhaps diarrhea (7, 11, 13, 24, 29). The effect of fetal Listeria infection is dependent on the point in gestation time when infection occurs. First-trimester infection leads to spontaneous abortion, whereas second- and third-trimester infections lead to preterm birth followed by neonatal illness or fetal death with preterm delivery of a stillborn (7, 11, 13).

The study is v. interesting. They reproduced the miscarriages/stillbirths by injecting listeria into monkeys.

#67 ^

Mon, Mar-09-09, 09:34

capmikee

Senior Member

Posts: 5,160

Plan: Weston A. Price, GFCF
Stats: 165/133/132 Male 5' 5"

BF:?/12.7%/?
Progress: 97%

Location: Philadelphia

I think the question is not whether listeria is dangerous, but whether pasteurized milk has any less chance of listeria contamination than raw milk does.

#68 ^

Mon, Mar-09-09, 09:36

mineralman mineralman is offline

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Posts: 172

Plan: whole food
Stats: 160/160/160 Male 200

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Quote:

You need anecdotal evidence to believe? I guess scientific studies don't cut it, eh?

ahh according to that logic you need to stop eating all foods.
nice try.

#69 ^

Mon, Mar-09-09, 09:47

mineralman mineralman is offline

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Posts: 172

Plan: whole food
Stats: 160/160/160 Male 200

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Quote:

I think the question is not whether listeria is dangerous, but whether pasteurized milk has any less chance of listeria contamination than raw milk does.

does meat have a less chance of listeria than raw milk?

#70 ^

Mon, Mar-09-09, 09:48

ThriftyD

Senior Member

Posts: 199

Plan: Lacto-Paleo
Stats: 322/168/140 Female 5'8"

BF:
Progress: 85%

Location: South Carolina

Quote:

Originally Posted by mineralman

ahh according to that logic you need to stop eating all foods.
nice try.

You've scientific studies showing that the risk from eating all foods outweighs starving?

Srsly, what you say makes no sense to me.

Yep, you can get nasties accidentally from a lot of foods. You could also accidentally step in front of a bus. But to suggest, nay, insist that a woman eat something that has a greatly INCREASED risk of killing her child is ... credulous at best.

That's like saying, "honey, go walk accross that busy 4 lane twice a day whilst pregnant! there's really healthy foods on the other side! Serisously, I know of 18 women who crossed this road their whole pregnancies and were never hit! Go on, honey, it'll be good for the baby!"

#71 ^

Mon, Mar-09-09, 09:54

mineralman mineralman is offline

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Posts: 172

Plan: whole food
Stats: 160/160/160 Male 200

BF:
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Quote:

But to suggest, nay, insist that a woman eat something that has a greatly INCREASED risk of killing her child is ... credulous at best.

listeria has been found in vegetables, meats and raw milk and pasturized milk
why bash raw milk?

Quote:

Yep, you can get nasties accidentally from a lot of foods.

DUH SO WHY POINT OUT ONE RAW FOOD?

#72 ^

Mon, Mar-09-09, 10:18

bozoking

Registered Member

Posts: 45

Plan: weston a price
Stats: 270/255/240 Male 76"

BF:
Progress: 50%

I live in a like minded community of about 1000 people we have been using raw milk for 25 years. We raise our own dairy cows and occasionally get the milk from outside the community. There have been hundreds of newborns and i cant recall one incident from a mother having a miscarriage or other problems from drinking raw milk.

There have been a few incidents from undercooked meats though...
After my experience and knowledge I would say theres more of a risk in meats than raw milk, at least in my community.

#73 ^

Mon, Mar-09-09, 10:31

ThriftyD

Senior Member

Posts: 199

Plan: Lacto-Paleo
Stats: 322/168/140 Female 5'8"

BF:
Progress: 85%

Location: South Carolina

Quote:

Originally Posted by mineralman

listeria has been found in vegetables, meats and raw milk and pasturized milk
why bash raw milk?

DUH SO WHY POINT OUT ONE RAW FOOD?

Well, gee, if you refuse to accept the huge amount of scientific data that shows raw milk as being a GREATER risk, then I guess this convo is over.

LOL, the "la, la,la I can't heeeeear youuuu!" method of debating!

Have a great pregnancy, sweetie. The fact is that most pregnancies are uneventful and all this banter is (hopefully) moot.

It's fun though!