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  #1   ^
Old Tue, Apr-01-08, 08:40
triplemom's Avatar
triplemom triplemom is offline
Just keep swimming
Posts: 1,813
 
Plan: General Low Carb/IF
Stats: 226/186.6/160 Female 5' 8"
BF:34/29/24
Progress: 60%
Location: Tennessee
Default A little experiment - apple cider vinegar

My mother swears by this stuff - she's been trying to get me to drink it for years. I pulled up some information yesterday that compared apple cider vinegar to metformin regarding blood sugar. So, yesterday I pulled out my bottle of Bragg's apple cider vinegar, which is organic and ulfiltered. It's supposed to be full of amino acids and good for all sorts of things. My mother said you just put it in shot glass and toss it back! I DON'T THINK SO - that sent me into a major coughing fit - man, that stuff is nasty. I tried mixing about a tablespoon with 8 ounces of water and drinking it - still bad enough to gag a maggot, but I got it down. I did this just before lunch yesterday and before breakfast this morning.

I ate my usual low-carb meal, usually less than 15 grams of carbs per meal. I try to stay under 50 grams of carbs per day, with the carbs spread out fairly evenly over each meal - my carbs are almost always non-starchy vegetables, and my blood sugars stay fairly consistent eating that way.

Interestingly, my 2-hour blood sugars without the vinegar over the last few days were 147, 129, 134, 132, 135, which are definitely down on their own by just reducing my carbs.

HOWEVER, the really interesting thing was my two blood sugars (2-hour after eating) after gagging down the vinegar - 110 and 117! I had vegetables with both of those meals, and I never get readings that low!

Anyway, I just had to toss this out for discussion/comments. I'm going to keep researching the subject and keep experimenting with it. Maybe my mother was right?!
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  #2   ^
Old Tue, Apr-01-08, 09:08
Rose1942's Avatar
Rose1942 Rose1942 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 319
 
Plan: Bernstein-ish
Stats: 148/125/125 Female 5'0"
BF:Started 1/5/08
Progress: 100%
Location: Charlotte NC
Default

There might be something to this. I experimented with apple cider vinegar myself a couple of weeks ago, but for another reason. I had a bit of gallbladder trouble going on, nothing severe, but enough so that it got my attention. (Apparently it is not unusual to experience gallbladder 'colic' after going on a diet of any kind, who knew?)

Anyway, while surfing around the net I came across an old post in this forum, wish I had saved it because I can't find it now. The discussion was about relieving gallbladder attack pain, and this person said that drinking 2 TBSP of apple cider vinegar in a glass of water really stopped the pain quickly. He said he used to use apple juice until he got diabetes, so now he used the vinegar as there is no sugar in it. Next time I felt some gallbladder trouble starting up, I tried it - and it worked! Of course I have no way of knowing positively that it did, but the pain lessened pretty fast and I did not progress into total misery.

I didn't think to check this against my blood sugar but now I am thinking that a glass of the lovely mixture might be beneficial to both my gallbladder (still a little pesky) and my BG. Thanks to your post, by the way! I will let you know if I see this connection. I believe it is the pectin in the apples that create the benefit, according to various gallbladder 'diets' that I have seen. But of course, we can't eat a bunch of apples either, diabetics are surely discriminated against by the fruit gods .....

I didn't find it particularly gross to drink, though. It was sort of pleasant to me, the same as drinking lemon water. Sure, acidic but not terrible. I didn't down it all at once though, I took about 10 minutes to drink it, maybe you should try that approach. And forget downing it in a shot glass undiluted - geez, that can make you choke to death!
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  #3   ^
Old Tue, Apr-01-08, 10:08
SSmith28's Avatar
SSmith28 SSmith28 is offline
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Posts: 42
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 219/208.4/145 Female 5'3"
BF:
Progress: 14%
Location: KC Metro
Default

I drank cider vinegar all the time for heart burn when I was pregnant. It's nasty at first-but you get used to it. I much prefer the "shot glass" method to sipping it.

***But please remember-Brush your teeth after drinking it. It is very bad for the enamel of your teeth.***
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  #4   ^
Old Tue, Apr-01-08, 10:17
Korban's Avatar
Korban Korban is offline
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Posts: 423
 
Plan: Berstein's
Stats: 220/189/155 Male 68"
BF:
Progress: 48%
Location: S. Carolina US
Post

Interesting!

I just found the writeup to the limited 2004 study in Diabetes Care of vinegar and its imact on insulin sensitivity. (see also cited references)

http://care.diabetesjournals.org/cg...ull/27/1/281#F1

A reference (by the same author) that cited the study is also given and shows a benefit from vinegar in terms of weight loss and glycemic response.

http://www.jacn.org/cgi/content/abstract/24/3/158

Both studies are from a real University...

Maybe this will allow me to drink a cup of cup of coffee in the morning without blowing my bg through the roof. Will try vinegar and the hard core un-refined apple cider vinegar (yuck and yuck). Not sure how I will keep them down yet... Will let you know in a week or two.

/smile
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  #5   ^
Old Tue, Apr-01-08, 10:29
triplemom's Avatar
triplemom triplemom is offline
Just keep swimming
Posts: 1,813
 
Plan: General Low Carb/IF
Stats: 226/186.6/160 Female 5' 8"
BF:34/29/24
Progress: 60%
Location: Tennessee
Default

Great info, Rose and Korban. This subject has really piqued my interest now. I also saw information (not sure if "real" studies were involved or not) where apple cider vinegar had beneficial effects on cholesterol.

Korban, in that first study you noted, the ACV was mixed with water and a little saccharine. I have some stevia drops and may trying "sweetening" it a bit. Maybe it will do down a little easier (and not come back up)....
Thanks for the tip, SSmith28.
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  #6   ^
Old Tue, Apr-01-08, 11:04
Rose1942's Avatar
Rose1942 Rose1942 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 319
 
Plan: Bernstein-ish
Stats: 148/125/125 Female 5'0"
BF:Started 1/5/08
Progress: 100%
Location: Charlotte NC
Default

(Triplemom says: I also saw information (not sure if "real" studies were involved or not) where apple cider vinegar had beneficial effects on cholesterol.)

LOL you have had a brainstorm! Hurry, sell that information to the statin makers! You could get rich!!!
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  #7   ^
Old Tue, Apr-01-08, 11:13
eddiemcm's Avatar
eddiemcm eddiemcm is offline
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Posts: 1,191
 
Plan: south beach
Stats: 225/170/165 Male 70 inches
BF:
Progress: 92%
Location: Houston,Texas
Default

I personally prefer red wine vinegar.
For me,no type of vinegar seems to enhance BG control.
We are all different-maybe vinegar helps some people.
Eddie
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  #8   ^
Old Tue, Apr-01-08, 12:18
muffles's Avatar
muffles muffles is offline
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Posts: 1,706
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 245/216/145 Female 5"4
BF:
Progress: 29%
Location: New Zealand
Default

Try adding an 1/8 th teaspoon of baking soda in the vinegar to neutralise the acid. I add hot water to my vinegar and it actually tastes nice to me now.
To the people brushing straight afterwards - don't. You need to swish with water for a minute or two afterwards, if you brush with acid still on your teeth, you can damage your teeth more. (Quote from my dentist).
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  #9   ^
Old Tue, Apr-01-08, 14:45
Lottadata Lottadata is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 287
 
Plan: Test-Test-Test w/insulin
Stats: 170/145/145 Female 5' 3"
BF:approx 31%
Progress: 100%
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Folks,

When you see a surprisingly low 1 or 2 hour reading, be sure to test at 3 or 4 hours to make sure you aren't just delaying the spike.

The Diabetes Care study involved a very small number of people and they only tested 30 minute and 60 minute blood sugars. That isn't all that conclusive.

So yes, it's possible there's something here, but my guess is it might be like the effect of wine with a meal which many of us have found to be effective for a few days and then fade out.

Bottom line: keep testing . . .
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  #10   ^
Old Tue, Apr-01-08, 19:28
Squid's Avatar
Squid Squid is offline
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Posts: 479
 
Plan: general LC
Stats: 195/142/148 Female 65
BF:
Progress: 113%
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I have great luck with vinegar. In the past I used to have cheat meals a lot, and when I had the vinegar before the meal it really muted my blood glucose response. I like this mexican buffet near work (yeah, I know, bad idea), and when I ate there my BG would be close to 300. With the vinegar it would go up to about 150 and then drop back down to normal by two hours. But every now and then it wouldn't work for some reason.

I drank it by mixing a tablespoon or two into a large glass of water and sweetening it with stevia. If it's a hot summer day it tastes pretty good and is refreshing.

I don't have cheat meals any longer so I gave up the practice of drinking the apple cider vinegar.
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  #11   ^
Old Tue, Apr-01-08, 21:13
Korban's Avatar
Korban Korban is offline
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Posts: 423
 
Plan: Berstein's
Stats: 220/189/155 Male 68"
BF:
Progress: 48%
Location: S. Carolina US
Post

Thanks for the comment, Jenny. I am sure I wouldn't have tested that far out.

Mexican food used to be my favorite, Squid... I wish they would go lo-carb with the beans, chips, and all...

/smile
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  #12   ^
Old Wed, Apr-02-08, 05:37
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dancinbr dancinbr is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 811
 
Plan: Dr. Bernstein (modified )
Stats: 298/205/199 Male 5 foot 11 inches
BF:
Progress: 94%
Location: Smithtown, NY
Thumbs up

Not ready to do vinegar.

But I will affirm the whole idea of doing some real good testing profiles after meals once in awhile.

Since I am learning how to use fast acting insulins and timing, etc., I have been testing in one hour increments all the way out to five hours. You get to see some interesting effects. Some food do linger and have delayed BG rises.

So, now sometimes I take a little fast acting insulin right before the meal and I also take a little more one hour later or so.

It helps to smooth out the curve.

When I really want to see a particular food and what it does I have done 1/2 incremental studies. I get some pretty good surprises on some foods, especially pasta, they start out with an increas hour one and increase more by hour two and stay up there by hour three and finally come down hour four and five.

I should document a bit better. I will.

But it is certainly true that the two hour test doesn't catch all adverse BG readings when having too many carbs.

The theory of small numbers prevails.

Ralph
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  #13   ^
Old Wed, Apr-02-08, 07:27
triplemom's Avatar
triplemom triplemom is offline
Just keep swimming
Posts: 1,813
 
Plan: General Low Carb/IF
Stats: 226/186.6/160 Female 5' 8"
BF:34/29/24
Progress: 60%
Location: Tennessee
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Korban
Mexican food used to be my favorite, Squid... I wish they would go lo-carb with the beans, chips, and all...


Ahhhh, Mexican....sigh. I tested a few times after dinner at my favorite Mexican restaurant - talk about being "scared straight" - Mexican food holds the record for my worst ever blood sugars! I absolutely can't make good choices there and I can't stay away from those darned chips!
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  #14   ^
Old Wed, Apr-02-08, 08:10
Lottadata Lottadata is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 287
 
Plan: Test-Test-Test w/insulin
Stats: 170/145/145 Female 5' 3"
BF:approx 31%
Progress: 100%
Default

Ralph,

I do the same thing as you do with a second smaller shot at 1 or 2 hours for foods like pizza which I know are slower. It works very well.

My rule of thumb is that I will not use more than 3 units at once before eating because of a fear that something might come up and I wouldn't eat the food. I've had this happen only a few times, but it is an issue.

Getting sick, for instance, or occasionally at a restaurant getting something so revolting I couldn't eat it.

With the 2 stage process the second dose goes in after the food so there's no fear.

But I also try to keep the insulin amount down as I find that the amount of insulin may be a good index to whether I'm going to put on weight, not necessarily because of the insulin but because it means I'm eating too much.

BTW, in his recent teleconference, Dr. Bernstein said it was okay to reuse pen needles, which is what I've been doing. Since I don't have to keep using new needles, I feel much freer to use a couple shots instead of one.

People with Type 1 who get CGMSes are getting so much better blood sugars, that I look forward to the day when everyone with diabetes can have access to one and see what their food really does to them.

BTW, if you test Dreamfields Pasta, you need to test even after that 5 hours when regular pasta hits.
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  #15   ^
Old Tue, Apr-08-08, 07:02
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skeeweeaka skeeweeaka is offline
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Posts: 2,154
 
Plan: Moderate Carb...
Stats: 235/195/140 Female 5'3
BF:HELP!!!
Progress: 42%
Location: Ohio
Lightbulb

Interesting experiment, my cousin says it cured his blood pressure, he lost weight, and erectile dysfunction reversed itself.
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