You are right, Valerie, “Anecdotal evidence” is not hard science by any means, nor did I try to state it as that, I simply brought up an observation, but perhaps I didn’t explain myself well.



I never said all runners are thinner than all weight lifters; this statement in itself would be false. Even if I stated the statement more correctly and said that all would have less % body fat, it would be an incorrect statement. I know this, and thus would not say this.

Plus, I did not explain my perspective very well, for I was referring to both groups when they started out overweight, not one person that might already be thin and one person that might be overweight. Plus, I was also talking about two people of equivalent level in their sport. I would never compare the intermediate runner with the expert weight lifter and say, hey look they are not the same, because really I know better than that.

What I meant is that when you have two groups of already overweight people that both start an exercise program. One group picks weight lifting and the other picks running, it is from my experience that the runners on average usually lose more weight and become thinner in a shorter amount of time. I agree perfectly that this may happen to be an isolated case that only occurs with the people I have seen at the gyms I go to, in the state that I live.

But, I can see easily that if both groups of people progressed until they became elite in their disciplines, then I would imagine at some point the weight lifters may very well end up with a lower percentage of body fat. But from your comparison it sounds like you are comparing more disciplined people to less disciplined ones. Like you implied, it is hard to compare random groups of people and get any real evidence for anything, because really, what level of running is compared to what level of weight training, it is not like there is a handy chart to compare the two.

Basically I am saying Valerie that I believe that at the beginning and intermediate levels of the sports that the runners will tend to shed the weight and body fat faster, but at some point, the weight lifters may very well pass the runner in percent body fat loss. But I have to ask, I wonder how many people on average end up reaching the expert and elite levels of their sport.

I also believe that we should also have somewhat of a balance between cardio and strength training, but that is just my opinion, and by no means am I using hard scientific evidence for any of this.

So you have the wrong opinion of what I meant, I do not believe that all runners are thinner than all weight lifters. Nor do I think they have a lower percentage of body fat.

Ahhh my dear ol friends ..guess what. You do lose weight faster lifting weights. But it depends on how you lift these weights.

Cardio is not necessary for fat loss...period. Though I do believe it helps the heart and lungs, weightlifting can give you the same benefits

If you go to the gym and these guys are squatting and taking LONG rests between sets,then obviously they are not going to lose much bodyfat.

BUT, if a different squatter shortened the rest time between sets, he would definitely lose bodyfat. I'm talking 30- seconds to a minute.

Let's say that squatter went immedialtely to lunges after his squats..then he has become a fat burning machine.

Like I stated before, I lost 24 lbs in 6 weeks from weight training only. It was a metabolic type of workout,but I did no cardio at all. I couldn't and it would have been detrimental to my goals,which was fat loss and muscle gains..and I put on 8lbs of muscle.

Again if you want to get hard and lean, lift weights and count on diet to help with fat loss. If you want to do cardio..great,just keep it to a minimum and try and not let it impede or hamper your weightlifting routine .

Or you can make it an evil cardio session with Farmers walks or kb swings or pushing cars just to name a few.

Now if someone was after strength,then yes he should rest longer in between sets for maximum effort.


But don't lose sight of this. Metabolism is based on how much muscle you have. I don't see much muscle on joggers, though, like everything else there are exceptions to the rule

Does a longer rest, and increased effort produce not only stronger muscles but larger ones??

I ask because I imagine larger muscles would burn more energy (plus I like the look.) So if I make sure that I spend only up to a minute between reps will I have smaller muscles? Thanks.

I *think* he meant that with a longer rest period between sets, you will be able to lift more weight and being able to lift bigger weights will build bigger muscles.

I'm a little confused. I want to get toned, but don't want to gain any bulging muscles either. I heard that to prevent bulging muscles, it is best to do half cardio and half weight training- light weights with a lot of reps. I will start going to the gym next week, when my shoes get here, can anyone give me some idea of what to start with?

Females can only get bulgy muscles if they take steroids or testosterone.

Here, here Dodger.

I know I'm still pretty new here, Advanced/High Intensity is my favorite and most visited, but this fear-of-women-bulking-up-by-lifting-weights-myth has got to stop. I even have this with my wife, she claims that earlier in her life she bulked up and got a lot bigger when regularly weight training.

Well, not only have I had some classes that dealt with this issue (mental and physical development of both male and female), in one class they used as an example that woman who played professional goal for a minor league hockey team (sorry, I can say her name but would butcher it if I tried to spell it). Her career didn't last that long and one of the reasons she sighted was her inability to bulk up/get a lot stronger NO MATTER what she did, I remember her being quoted as saying as a woman the only way she could ever bulk up would be to take steroids. I was very into hockey at the time and followed her story, and she really did try everything short of steroids, did she look great, yes, was she "bulked up"; not even close.

Anyway, my wife intends to start lifting with me, and I keep telling her I can't wait to see this transformation from her thin self to The Incredible Ms Hulk.

Sorry for the LOL, I admit it wasn't that funny.

Nah... I disagree... It depends more on genetics. When I was younger and slim, I tended to have slightly bulgy muscles... So much so that people thought I was lifting weights even though I was not. Its just my natural body shape. (ugh and I thought I was fat!)

I have seen alot of women with an amazing predispositon to buliding above average muscle mass..sans the steroids.


I hate the word "tone"..

Look here is a great analogy.,,if light weights for high reps are so great,wouldn't no weights for high reps be even better?


To get hard..heavy weights, low reps for a few sets. Basic movements..

Mass can be built on a strength training program without a doubt.

But I believe that using heavy weights and little rest between sets, is the best for mass..not for everybody, but for a large majority.

For strength you want maximum effort..that's why you should rest longer between sets.

Look at Pavel. He is one wiry,strong,hard and athletic dude.

Yet his muscle mass is very slight. He does heavy weights,low reps for only a couple of sets

For mass he recommends heavy weights,low reps for as many sets as you can do with little rest between sets.

So would something like a Body Pump class qualify? I tried a class for fun last night, and even though I would say that I'm a fairly experienced weight lifter, I did find this class quite hard, especially with the constant pace we were working at.

I think the question is what does "bulging muscles" mean to each of us. I think we all have our own idea of what that means. It seems there are women who don't want to see muscle definition of any kind....and if they see something that could pass as a muscle....they call it a bulging muscle. To them "toned" means "not flabby". To others bulging muscles means looking like a man. There is a whole lot of in-between there. So to think you know what a woman means when she says she doesn't want "bulging muscles," or that she "builds easily" might not be what you think it means.
I've been asked if I used steroids. I do not and never have, and never will. I'm 51 years old and have been lifting weights off and on since 1986. I can see I have more muscle mass than most women my age, but I don't have "bulging muscles." However....there might be women who would disagree.

I wanted to add, the last thing you have to worry about is out of control muscle growth. It's hard to build and must be maintained or it'll go away. Unfortunately it's not "once you build it, you got it" sort of thing. It takes proper eating and training hard to get muscle size that will even be noticed, and if there's much body fat there, it probably won't be noticed until that comes off. Most women find more frustration in trying to build good muscle mass not fretting because they've built too much.

I know what you are saying. So many women are afraid they are going to look ripped and vascular just because they pick up a dumbell. Its like me saying i don't want to sprint because I'm afraid I'll win the gold medal next olympics. Those women who look that way work their butts off to build and keep that muscle and its an insult to the women when others think they are going to look like that just because they start doing a little resistance work. Honestly. Chill out

Okay, I've skimmed this thread, so I hope I don't readdress something that's already been said.

I dont' want to use the word "tone" (in defference to Gostrydr ), but I want arms and abs that look defined but not bulky. I read (again on this thread) that women don't really bulk up, but my sister lifted weights for years, then stopped, and now has overly large, fat, flabby arms where once there was overly built muscle. I don't want that for me. I would love to give up the cardio, mostly because it's just no fun. If I just use small hand weights (3 - 5 lbs) will that work to burn the rest of my fat, or do I have to go hard and heavy? There was a deal on 20/20 or Nightline or something the other night that had a doctor saying this very thing...that cardio was actually bad for weight loss.

Ultimately I'd like to have a long, lean body, like a dancer. Will lifting heavy weights help with this? I've also seen infomercials on TV (my house is filled with exercise equipment from infomercials) for a ballet bar and DVD for dancer stretches. Am I better off with this?

Y'all seem to have a lot of knowledge, so any thoughts would be appreciated.

AHHHHHHH!!!!! MusCLE cannot turn to fat!!! That's like saying an apple will turn into an orange.

Maybe your sister stopped lifitng,ate too much..who knows.. but her muscle is not responsible for her flab.

Look, 3-5 lbs weight are ok..for a very short time. To continue to 'tone" you have to build some muscle.You have to work hard to get that muscle.

Low bodyfat with some muscle is the key to geting that hard look.

Ask Lisa,Demi, Galtatia,Lilli,ValerieL,ElleH, how hard it has been for them to acheive the results they are after and how hard they have to work out to get the resulst they now have.

IT'S TOUGH! AND IT'S A CONSTANT REWORKING OF YOUR ROUTINE AND DIET.

Your body does not want to build muscle..you have to coax it along,suprise it once in a while,keep at it and make your body adjust to your effort. You have to make your body comply.

Not to tough now is it?

Nope - I'm up for the challenge. I'm almost at weight, now it's all just a matter of making what's left look good. If that means lifting heavier weights, so be it. I have a total gym (compliments of an infomercial) so if I put that on its highest resistance, I should be set. Especially if that means I don't have to spend hours a week on the treadmill.