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Originally Posted by capo
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The thing I don't quite understand is if they had such thick bone structures, how did they get enough vitamin D/A/C in their diets to build up such thick bones? I mean, I require a lot of cod liver oil and Vitamin A/D/C to change/alter my facial bone structure. If I don't take the cod liver oil, I can notice a slight diminishing of my cheekbones, just after one day (even if I spend a few hours out in the sun).. Even if people today were to go paleolithic and eat only meat, how would they get enough vitamin A/D in their diets to have such strong bone structures?
I think even in a primitive state, people need high intensity sunlight exposure (on both their eyes and skin and probably hair too) to maintain adequate vitamin D production. Nomadic people who lived in not-so-sunny climates such as Norway/Sweden/etc. would be lacking adequate sun exposure and would have to take a high vitamin D supplement (cod liver oil).
My theory is that unless people were to migrate to the deep south or Africa/South America, (Everything close to the Equator) they would need to take cod liver oil to have strong bone structures. So even if people in America wanted to go paleolithic/primitive and live their lives as far away from civilization as possible, they would still need to obtain high vitamin cod liver oil regularly, especially if they're clothed individuals (not like the native Africans).
And I'm supposed to get my high vitamin cod liver oil and UVA/UVB light in the next day. When my mom got home today, she told me a coworker from work said the only purpose of reptile lights is to heat up the reptiles. I think her coworker is a chauvinist idiot know-it-all, and my mom is her usual self for believing him. She proceeded to tell me the lamp would just get me hot and be a waste of my money..before it even happens, she somehow is able to predict the future. I can't wait until I change this scenario.
Jayppers, when I first started my high fat/low carb/mod protein diet, I noticed that I seemed to be gaining weight in my butt/thighs/and adding muscle everywhere. It seems to be logical then that this way of eating doesn't make one fat, only proportional and healthy. Like you, I have also had that thickening of the skin (I wasn't really fond of it, but since you are, I suppose I should be too, because it could be much much worse).
I don't know what to do to make sure to be getting adequate nutrition. It's so hard when you have to seek special meat/eggs and pay loads of money for it too. I don't think there's a farm that has truly natural grazed cattle/all natural meat for one hour from where I live, and I eat a lot of meat every day! It's close to impossible with my busy schedule, classes, and on top of that, my mom works two jobs and definitely couldn't manage a drive let alone the cost of nutritious meat. I've suggested for us to get hens and a rooster to at least have fresh eggs (since we have two acres of land), but it's out of the question for her..it's too much for her to think about I guess -_- ...
But I can't picture myself thriving in a primitive society either..I mean, c'mon, what about deer ticks, lice, tapeworms, west nile virus, malaria, etc.. that you catch from natural living conditions. I sure don't want to ingest raw meat that has tapeworms in it, then get sick and die from it because there isn't a hospital for hundreds of miles from me..nor do I want to drink blood from an African tribe. Perhaps I could picture myself as an Eskimo, but that's about the extent of my visioning unless there's more proof somewhere that living in primitive societies is better than living in 'civilized' society. I'd rather own a livestock farm for raising and butchering cattle than live under a hide tent, freezing, and worrying if there will be food to eat the next day, week, or year. Living in nature is certainly more of an adventure than living in a clean house and having a 5-8 monotonous job. Forefather, I now understand why you think only 180 million people would populate the earth rather than the 6 billion that occupy it today..people would simply starve to death because they couldn't catch their food or would go malnourished because they couldn't catch healthy/fat animals. It's a better bet to own several cows/domesticate or herd them and kill them off when you need to eat. Weston Price says the largest area on earth that is perfect range for cattle grazing is in China, and it is being used for agriculture..how sad.
Wouldn't it be more idealistic for people to own cattle grazing land, fence it in, own a flock of cattle, and eat them. And what about the Isolated Swiss mentioned in Nutrition and Physical Degeneration who consume Cow Cheese and homemade whole rye bread and have beautiful physical statures, teeth, and very little incidence of dental carries? Or the Arabs Price found who lived for three months at a time solely on camel's milk?
I don't think people have to necessarily eat 100 Percent meat to be healthy; they have to eat foods that don't rob their body of nutrients and are nutrient dense. Most foods today aren't good enough. To be honest, I think the safest way is to own a livestock farm, raise cattle, chickens, goats, etc. and live off of their milk/cheese/eggs/or meat/organs.
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Exactly, I 100% agree- it doesn't matter if your diet is pure carnivore or whatever- THE most important substances that should be consumed are liberal amounts of fat-soluble vitamins- which are only found readily in animal fats. The minerals and proteins that the fat-solubles help maximally utilize can come from anywhere- meat, eggs, veggies, fermented grains- as long as the nutrients
themselves are present in your diet. However, meat is the most concentrated source of these nutrients- it seems a waste of time for me personally to go out of my way and ferment my 100% organic super special ultra pure no pesticide brown rice from a small local farmer certified USDA organic, all when I could get triple the nutrient content from a slab of steak. Also, for me, I love the physical and mental benefits of a zero-carb carnivorous diet- it just seems so in-line with what my body is designed for, and veggies seem completely unecessary- why should I eat them? For nifty phytochemicals? No thanks, I'll just drink herbal teas for that, you can spare me the fiber and indigestion from neolithic vegetables.
Uh...when Weston A. Price examined the natives and their foods, the single most shared characteristics of all of their diets were the liberal consumption of fat-soluble acivators- as in, their fat-solubles came from their
food, including vitamin D- it wasn't the sunlight carrying them through to perfect health- you could literally measure all of their fatty foods breaming with vitamin D, sunlight was only a helping hand, it wasn't necessary.
If I went primitive anyways, I wouldn't be clothed if it was warm and sunny out- why would I? Embarassment? Anyone who might be around me would be naked too, so what?
I think you have the 'difficulties' of primitive living somewhat overblown- sure, life was physically more demanding, but if you had to hunt almost every single day of your life, you'd be pretty damn good at it- it'd be almost as easy as butchering domesticated cattle, just more physical work would be required. It'd be like your career- people today are highly skilled in their civilized careers- using the same logic, primitive people would be highly skilled at hunting and obtaining food- it would just be every day life, just like how modern man drives to work and does his job every day, just more physical exertion would be required (and is that a BAD thing?)
With regards to parasites- I seriously think parasites and diseases are overblown by civilization and its exaggerated sense of importance. Our statist institutions (schools) throw us half-truths and some even outright lies, portraying wild animals as gauranteed to have parasites, etc. They also condition us into believing that the medical
industry (as in profit-seeking business) is the only answer to things like parasites- there are numerous herbs and plant chemicals that dispel tapeworms- I'm sure our ancestors knew which ones. Thus my philosophy: plants are terrible foods, but excellent medicines. Why have artifical medical institutions when a majority of what they "treat" can be cured and treated much more simply with natural plant chemicals and herbs? Modern medicines are based off of plant chemicals anyway, why should we be conned into taking dangerous prescription medications when a natural herb that its derived from in the first place could have just as significant an effect? Why? I'll tel you why: because you can't put a patent on herbs and plant chemicas- you have to syntehisize it into something atrificial in order to generate monopoly profits out of it through the use of exclusive patents. Eh, I'll stop there- now I'm getting into my socio-political critique of capitalism and the state.
Also, Francis Pottenger, with his cat experiment, found that the 'degenerated' (fed processed food) cats acquired parasites on a regular basis, while the robust healthy ones (on all raw meat and milk etc.) never had a single parasite, as their immune systems were excellent. What if, being the domesticated degenerated species we are, our modern population is simply more susceptible to parasites than our physically robust ancestors were?, due to our disgusting dietary behaviors over the millenia crippling our immune system's ability? Seems pretty plausible to me, we are on the whole less physcally and mentally able than our ancestors of the paleolithic era.
No, you are incorrect- the global population would be dramatically reduced because the food chain can simply not support 6 billion carnivores, or even omnivores, not because primitive living is more 'difficult'. Again, I'm sure you know this, but just to visualize for a moment:
Carnivore/Omnivore------->C
Hebrivore-------------->HHHHH
Plant----------------->PPPPPPPP
We are primarily in the herbivorous location, a shift to carnivorous high animal product diets (even with plants) would naturaly push us up to the top- where less can survive, as there are only so many herbivores to kill and support flesh-eaters. In other words, if every single person ate healthy high fat, the populaton would naturally shift with the trophic level. The further up you go in the food chain, the more energy is wasted through heat and metabolic processes- thus carnivores have the least amount of this once the flow of energy gets to them, and so there must be less of them. You can't feed 5 people with 2 plates of food.
The problem with a domestication of animals- it in turn domesticates us: we no longer need our intelligence to cleverly hunt and trap animals, we can just have them 'butchered'- thus less natural selection on brain power; we no longer need our health and fitness to obtain our means of survival- we just slaughter the cow with ncie shiny blades and use its leather, without conflict- thus less pressure to develop strong bodies; we no longer need a natural adaptation to the open air and environment, and become feeble, weak, and sensitive. CONFLICT is what makes us strong, smart, and great, not domestication. Without conflict, there is no driving force to develop great characteristics like intelligence and strength. Just look at the house dog- wolves are much more intelligent and physically able, while dogs have become somewhat 'dumb', as their food is just handed to them by their human symbiotes- they have no conflict, and thus no driving force to develop intelligent characteristics. When civilization collapses, you can live in your limiting domestication all you want-
I will expose myself to the natural forces that made the human species what it was in the first place- smart, physically fit, and robust. I will enhance my mental and physical capacity to its fullest extent through conflict- the driving force that produces excellence. I refuse to submit to docility and comfort- I refuse to be a mediocre product of a fake environment. There can be no progress without a force to to push it into development, there can be no development without conflict to create the need for it. Muscles won't grow stronger unless you tear them first, minds won't grow smarter unless you give them problems to solve first, and bodies won't grow robust unless they are battered by their environment first. Without these driving forces, there is no reason to be our best, and we become a degenerated version of what we could be.
Lucysdream: Please, show me
paleolithic, not neolithic or proto-neolithic, evidence that human beings consumed plant foods on a
regular, consistent, basis.