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  #16   ^
Old Sun, Feb-04-07, 01:13
meatzrus meatzrus is offline
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Plan: paleolithic.
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what you just wrote makes me upset beyond repair. what my mother ate determines my bone structure?!?!? that sucks, i bet everyone here agrees with me on that. im not saying i know more than Weston Price or anything, but im the type of believer that believes in the ME, NOW philosophy, i determine myself and im responsible for what i become. of course it might be all hope and wishful thinking that by eating tons of liver and meat and nutrient dense foods i'll repair my bone structure, but i like to think of it as something that can definitely be succeeded in. as long as i believe i can repair my bone structure it'll HAPPEN! i'm not gonna sit around and think, oh well my mom probably didn't eat that well so im screwed, im gonna sit around and think IM not gonna screw up my eating and im gonna eat well so this'll get fixed.

does weston price mention any proof for the whole "mother" thing? actually, now that im thinking about it, that cannot be wholy true because he mentions how in the first generation, kids eating modernized foods suffered, so if what you said was true, the kids could eat modern foods and still have same structure, but thats not what happened. the pictures all indicate the moment they ate modern foods that generation suffered.. im not trying to attack you, just being really hopeful for myself and determined to repair my bone structure. good discussion
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  #17   ^
Old Sun, Feb-04-07, 01:23
meatzrus meatzrus is offline
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Plan: paleolithic.
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when weston price mentions refined sugar as one of the horrible modern foods, are drinks such as sparkling apple cider and fruit juices like that bad? its not refined sugar, but it's definitely sugar. and when you say stuff like white flour is bad, i understand that, but jelly?? as in preserves and stuff? thats just fruits..so how can that be so bad. is it just the sugar in general? what i'd really like to find out is if refined sugar or white flour is the main cause of poor nutrition. i mean i know refined grains and white flour is horrible, but is all sugar in general bad? the native peoples rarely ate fruits, the eskimoes only eat cranberries.....
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  #18   ^
Old Sun, Feb-04-07, 14:18
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kallyn kallyn is offline
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Plan: life without bread
Stats: 150/130/130 Female 5 feet 7 inches
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meatzrus
does weston price mention any proof for the whole "mother" thing? actually, now that im thinking about it, that cannot be wholy true because he mentions how in the first generation, kids eating modernized foods suffered, so if what you said was true, the kids could eat modern foods and still have same structure, but thats not what happened. the pictures all indicate the moment they ate modern foods that generation suffered.. im not trying to attack you, just being really hopeful for myself and determined to repair my bone structure. good discussion


Here's what the good Dr. found as best I can remember/summarize:

generation 1: eats their traditional diet - facial structure good and no dental problems
generation 2: eats modern foods - facial structure good b/c mother had adequate nutrition to facilitate bone growth in the womb; severe dental problems in the form of cavities and rotting teeth from the modern foods
generation 3: eats modern foods - facial structure pinched, narrow and deformed b/c mother did not have adequate nutrition to promote optimal growth in the womb; severe dental problems in the form of cavities and rotting teeth; other problems of nutritional deficiency present as well such as club feet, violent behavior, and sterility
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  #19   ^
Old Sun, Feb-04-07, 14:23
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kallyn kallyn is offline
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Plan: life without bread
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meatzrus
when weston price mentions refined sugar as one of the horrible modern foods, are drinks such as sparkling apple cider and fruit juices like that bad? its not refined sugar, but it's definitely sugar. and when you say stuff like white flour is bad, i understand that, but jelly?? as in preserves and stuff? thats just fruits..so how can that be so bad. is it just the sugar in general? what i'd really like to find out is if refined sugar or white flour is the main cause of poor nutrition. i mean i know refined grains and white flour is horrible, but is all sugar in general bad? the native peoples rarely ate fruits, the eskimoes only eat cranberries.....


No traditional diets included refined sugar or refined flour. Refined sugar will leach minerals out of your body, so you should avoid it. As for flour - most traditional grain-based foods were fermented in some way to break down the phytates naturally present in such foods and also to boost the nutritional content. Phytates bind to nutrients in your body and prevent you from absorbing them. Also, when refined flour is a big part of your diet, the diet is bound to be deficient in lots of vitamins and minerals. Remember, the point of any of these traditional diets was to maximize the nutrient content. Jelly is bad because it's mostly fruit juice and sugar. There isn't even any fiber from the fruit or anything.

You should really just make yourself read the book. It's very eye-opening. If you don't like reading on the computer screen you could go to the library and print it out pretty cheaply.
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  #20   ^
Old Sun, Feb-04-07, 15:38
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Lucysdream Lucysdream is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kallyn
Here's what the good Dr. found as best I can remember/summarize:

generation 1: eats their traditional diet - facial structure good and no dental problems
generation 2: eats modern foods - facial structure good b/c mother had adequate nutrition to facilitate bone growth in the womb; severe dental problems in the form of cavities and rotting teeth from the modern foods
generation 3: eats modern foods - facial structure pinched, narrow and deformed b/c mother did not have adequate nutrition to promote optimal growth in the womb; severe dental problems in the form of cavities and rotting teeth; other problems of nutritional deficiency present as well such as club feet, violent behavior, and sterility


I forget a lot of the details now. That's pretty specific. But I also remember in the book the malformation of facial structures in later siblings due to decreased reserves in the mother. I also distinctly remember reading that members of the same tribe could have well-formed or malformed faces according to diet. Is this mistaken?
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  #21   ^
Old Sun, Feb-04-07, 18:46
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algts algts is offline
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Plan: Primal-ish
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Dr. Price also talks quite a bit about grass-fed dairy, especially butter. Depending on what state you live in, it is possible to get raw dairy whole milk. Personally, I don't think dairy is bad (unless you're allergic to it or lactose intolerant).

He also has a section towards the back discussing treatment of some of these problems--look for that.

Also, I can print free at my local public library 75 pages per week.
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  #22   ^
Old Sun, Feb-04-07, 21:34
meatzrus meatzrus is offline
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Plan: paleolithic.
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I get it now. So the only sugar that's good is just pure fruit correct? The whole, pure fruit with everything included, not just the juice. Sometimes i hate being so vain with all of this and studying people's faces, solely looks, but i just want the best for my body and I want to grow the proper way, this is the truth for me. So Im assuming corn, millet, potatoes, and beans are fine because the Kikuyu's eat only those items and they seem to have nice structures. I have read parts of the book, Im giving out a bad impression of myself. I am reading some parts, just not finding where he points out the "modern" foods.
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  #23   ^
Old Sun, Feb-04-07, 21:52
meatzrus meatzrus is offline
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Plan: paleolithic.
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here is one of the quotes.

The evidence indicates that this, like the facial and dental arch deformities is due to an absence of vitamin A in the diet of the mother during the gestation period or of one or both of the parents prior to conception.

so weston price believes lack of vitamin A causes the facial and dental deformities. now we're getting somewhere. i have almost read thru the whole book and am getting so sick of words "modernized diet" or modern food, he never explains what that is. it matters because some modern foods might have more of an impact than others. then in the quote above, he changes his wisdom and says its from lack of vitamin A. this would explain why the beautiful girl in that african tribe picture i posted has a nice structure even without meat, because like someone said sweet potatoes are high in Vitamin A. this is really fun to read and really figure this stuff out, this is lifechanging stuff. lets keep digging deeper

UPDATE EDIT:: i need to add something. i have finished pretty much reading the whole book, jumping around to the parts where diet is discussed. in addition to Vitamin A being needed, Vitamin E is needed as well. and this explains the why refined flour is bad. Weston mentions when flour is made into refined white flour, the germ is removed which has much of the Vitamin E.. so to sum up Vitamins A & E are needed for good development.

Last edited by meatzrus : Sun, Feb-04-07 at 22:12.
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  #24   ^
Old Sun, Feb-04-07, 22:21
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kallyn kallyn is offline
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Plan: life without bread
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The thing with foods like corn, millet, and beans is that, in a traditional setting, they are prepared very differently than they are in a modern setting. For example, corn was processed with lime (the mineral, not the fruit) to make things like tortillas; the lime processing unlocked a b-vitamin that was previously bound up and not usable by the human body. When cultures rely on corn as a staple food and DON'T use this lime processing method, they end up developing a b-vitamin deficiency disease known as pellagra (this was actually quite common in the southern US in the early part of the 20th century).

Millet was usually fermented and then made into a porridge or gruel. The fermenting process upped the vitamin content significantly and also broke down the phytates in the grain.

Beans were also soaked and allowed to begin to sprout before being eaten.

I think that WAP came to believe that many of the downfalls of the modern diet had to do with fat-soluble vitamins specifically - A, D, E, and K. That's why he recommended cod liver oil to deficient children, as it is a rich source of A and D. I believe he also recommended raw butter oil as a supplement as well.

If you want to see a bit of hands-on information on how to do this stuff, you should read Nourishing Traditions by Sally Fallon. She's the current leader of the Weston A Price Foundation (WAPF).

So the key is to maximize the good and minimize the bad with whatever food you wish to eat. And of course you should pay attention to your own body's cues; it doesn't matter if African tribes drank raw dairy if you are allergic to casein.

This really is fascinating stuff, isn't it? Sorry if I come off sounding harsh or anything, I tend to just go into academic mode a lot when I talk about this stuff.
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  #25   ^
Old Mon, Feb-05-07, 00:35
meatzrus meatzrus is offline
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Plan: paleolithic.
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It's fine you are teaching me alot and i love reading your posts. you're not coming across as harsh, im probably coming across as annoying because i keep like triple posting in a row, its because this topic is so exciting to me but no one is really posting in this whole forum, i'd love for more people to become involved in this topic & forum in general.
thank you so much for all of your helpful posts you've really informed me of so much wonderful information, it really is exciting and lifechanging.
Alright, just a little personal information here, I was eating carnivourously, now ive added in sweet potatoes, but only sweet potatoes for right now. im not going to add corn or any grains or any dairy or any regular potatoes or beans. so for right now its lots of meat, fatty fish, organ meats, and lots of sweet potatoes for that excellent vitamin A!
thank you Kallyn, you are an amazing poster
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  #26   ^
Old Mon, Feb-05-07, 15:21
capo capo is offline
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That Weston A. Price book is really fascinating! So, I had an underbite and crooked teeth as a child, but braces and a lot of dental work fixed that. I also had a missing tooth, but I got an implant, so not my smile is good; only, I really wish my mom would have been more of a nutrition fanatic with me as a growing child. I can hardly blame her for my teeth, but at least my bone structure is good; I mean, I don't have a pinched face or anything.

I have to say, after eating a very fatty, high protein/meat diet for the past seven months as well, I have grown; my bone structure is extremely more solid than it was, my muscles have grown, even my lips have gotten bigger. I feel like my jaw is stronger. A few weeks ago I decided to start adding cod fish liver oil into my diet (a tsp. every other day) to ensure I have strong/healthy bones. Another issue is fluoride. I picked up some natural toothpaste (composed mostly of CaCO3 (calcium carbonate), which is the main cleaning agent in toothpaste (not fluoride), and I'm going to try to minimize my exposure, as well as my mom's, to fluoride.

I need to have her read Doctor Price's book on Nutrition and Physical Degeneration! She's gonna love it.
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  #27   ^
Old Tue, Feb-06-07, 16:49
meatzrus meatzrus is offline
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Plan: paleolithic.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by algts
Dr. Price also talks quite a bit about grass-fed dairy, especially butter. Depending on what state you live in, it is possible to get raw dairy whole milk. Personally, I don't think dairy is bad (unless you're allergic to it or lactose intolerant).

He also has a section towards the back discussing treatment of some of these problems--look for that.

Also, I can print free at my local public library 75 pages per week.


I recommend Organic Pastures raw dairy products, they are top of the line, best in my opinion.
a tribegroup Weston studied called the Arahs drank tons of camel milk, almost exclusively it seems from reading the section on them in the book, and in my opinion i think their structure is also very beautiful.

To summarize, from WestonAP's research, raw dairy, meats, organ meats, and fatty fish are what bring the most fat soluble vitamins into our diet. I don't know what to think about the other food groups, like sprouted grains and such, anyone have a clue about these? Are we better off avoiding things like sprouted grains?
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  #28   ^
Old Tue, Feb-06-07, 17:32
Zuleikaa Zuleikaa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meatzrus
wow that's strange.. the african tribe girl who i mentioned has a beautiful structure actually eats no meat at all. only agricultural foods.. she's a Kikuyu, and here's the quote..

"In contrast with the Masai, the Kikuyu tribe, which inhabits a district to the west and north of the Masai, are characterized by being primarily an agricultural people. Their chief articles of diet are sweet potatoes, corn, beans, and some bananas, millet, and Kafir corn, a variety of Indian millet."

that's really strange. she has a beautiful facial structure yet she eats no meat at all, only potatoes, corn, beans, and such. Does someone have an idea about this particular case?
Vitamin D. Vitamin D and calcium.

Vitamin D sets the bone and teeth structure from fetal development thru adulthood. If the mother doesn't get enough vitamin D, the fetus develops short stature as well as bone, teeth, and skull malformations.

Bone malformations can continue into adulthood.

Wheat and sugar interfere with nutrient absorbtion and can interfere with vitamin D metabolism as well.

You can get vitamin D free from the sun and that's where Dr. Price found most of his natives. Inuit got vitamin D from oily fish.

Last edited by Zuleikaa : Tue, Feb-06-07 at 17:41.
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  #29   ^
Old Tue, Feb-06-07, 18:04
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Hybrid Hybrid is offline
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Plan: NeanderThin
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My beautiful, phenotypically Cherokee girlfriend, went through about two years of eating naught but popsicals and cheese. She has a more varied (but not NeanderThin) diet now, but almost never eats green vegetables.
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  #30   ^
Old Tue, Feb-06-07, 21:38
capo capo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuleikaa
Vitamin D. Vitamin D and calcium.

Vitamin D sets the bone and teeth structure from fetal development thru adulthood. If the mother doesn't get enough vitamin D, the fetus develops short stature as well as bone, teeth, and skull malformations.

Bone malformations can continue into adulthood.

Wheat and sugar interfere with nutrient absorbtion and can interfere with vitamin D metabolism as well.

You can get vitamin D free from the sun and that's where Dr. Price found most of his natives. Inuit got vitamin D from oily fish.



So, I have a minor underbite, but I've had braces and my teeth are straight now; the only issue is that my lower jaw still juts out slightly more than I want it to, and my mandible is in front of my maxilla when I smile; my smile makes me look underbited.

I'm attributing this to my mom not getting enough vitamin D in her diet when I was in her womb, because she said she ate a lot of sugary foods when she was pregnant with me which obviously didn't just affect her--I got the funny underbite and who knows what else; but I was wondering if there is any way to fix my facial bone structure this with this diet.. my guess is I'm stuck with it. Everything else with my skull and face is normal. It's just my jaw is protruding too far, especially when I smile on the side-view. Maybe my upper lip isn't built up enough; can the underlying bone of the upper lip grow for me? I'm 18, and puberty is coming to an end I believe.

Last edited by capo : Tue, Feb-06-07 at 22:05.
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