ps: I forgot to say they also LAUGH at everyone who they think disagrees with them.

I have seen no evidence that it's dangerous but I do have one thing to throw out there to think about. It was my observation from posts in other threads that it was the experience of those who excluded veggies for prolonged periods that they found that they could not add them back in even if they wanted to because of the digestive upset that ensued. When we stop eating vegetable matter, our bodies stop making the enzymes to digest them. Now, this isn't a huge problem if you never want to eat veggies again but it may make it difficult (or at least uncomfortable for a while) if and when a person decides that they do want to start including vegetable matter back into their diets. It seems that by excluding veggies/carbs, it's possible to make yourself completely intolerant to them even if you weren't to begin with. Of course, if it's really a way of life, it shouldn't matter, right?

Lisa I could eat a veggie now and not have any problems EXCEPT for making my body hurt and setting off other lupus symptoms. My BG would also waver but that would be expected with any change. So not everyone experiences that. I have seen very few posts with people complaining about what you say BUT I am sure there are a few that do have that. Usually the complaint is when a person goes from 0-20 carbs overnight and they experience some water weight gain. That usually resolves though within a week. I usually tell people to add 5 carbs every few days until they reach induction levels.

It's not, actually.

This board is Canadian, with members from all over the world.

Rosebud

My mother has lupus and she is now doing very well after created an eating plan for her. She is actually doing much better than her doctor expected.

everyone is different I guess =/

That is awesome! I too feel better then I have in 4 years and am off all meds. Last blood draw showed some of the markers almost gone and my DR says it is a kind of remission. He has since put 2 other patients on my WOE and they too are having similar results....

That may be because we have very few who eat nothing but meat and eggs (without cheating) for months.
Then again, I guess the personal experience of one or two isn't valid for all of us, right?

I'm with ya buddy!! I have had type 1 diabetes for 25 years and tried to do what the ADA, my doctors, my "people" told me. It caused me to have terrible diabetes control. I've also battled IBS for years. Dr. Bernstein was the first plan I found that helped me. He doesn't advocate fruits or even all vegetables. Cutting out fruits and vegetables helps my diabetes and IBS. I feel good for the first time in my life.

I do M&E almost exclusively. If I really want some low carb veggies or dairy, and my other health conditions are in check, I have a small amount....every now and then. I'm NOT desperate about my weight!!! I didn't start M&E out of a sense of urgency. It seems to work best with my body and I love the people on that thread.

I honestly do not care what any of you think about my WOL, as long as the forum still allows us a space. The M&E people are important to me. If you can't understand why someone--like me-- would choose M&E, it just means you do not have my pancreas or my colon. You haven't walked in my shoes. (And I must tell you they are sexy...just too cute!)I haven't walked in your's either and don't judge you. We are all just doing the best we can, aren't we? LC is allowing me to live a life I never dreamed possible. Live and let me live.
Peace,
Sara<><

Sara I love reading your posts. You have such a way with words. All I can say is I echo you.... You rock!

I understand and agree. We do sometimes get scale obsessed or people wanting a quick fix on the thread. But, you know what? They are new and usually the process calms them down. If not, some of us might say something tactful or encouraging. Okay, tact isn't my strong point but I make an effort. Recovery from obesity and/or food addictions takes time....just time and being honest and open to change. We are open over there or we wouldn't be there. Tolerant and empathetic.
Sara<><

I have read about more problems eating this, that and the other thing than I ever thought was possible. Personally I can eat whatever I want without major problems. I may feel less energetic on higher carb, but it's not like I'm bedridden or something.

It is kind of like vegetarians who haven't eaten meat for years - they claim to "prove" that meat is bad for them because of the ensuing digestive upsets that occur. I don't believe that change to be permanent - we are great at adapting. At least I am, the ultimate adapting machine. I have bits of veggies - they are more like flavorings or condiments than a major part of my intake for the most part. However, these bits should help my body remember the enzymes, and if not, there are digestive enzymes one can take. (We used to recommend that vegetarians who wanted to eat meat again take it very very slow, adding chicken broth in small amounts to rice, that sort of thing)

Are you worried that you will not be able to digest grains after several years of not eating them? I would think that would also be true for many people...

My body holds weight really well - I believe that I have actually seen my weight go up looking at a cake rather than eating one. While for me the dropping of sugar and flour is certainly the lifetime change, a day at a time, I know that unless I keep my carbs low I don't lose weight. I lose it and it comes back. A little zig zag. The m/e WOE is my latest experiment, and so far, a successful one in terms of disease symptoms that are gone, and pants size reduction...

Funny, most Americans don't eat many veggies anyway, to the people around me at work I'm weird because I don't eat BREAD! They don't even notice the veggies I don't eat!

It's really scary, because 5'3" and 240 pounds is NOT a great size to defend. The oddest thing about doing m/e though is that my body SIZE has changed. I can see my waist. I am wearing smaller clothes. I haven't been doing m/e long enough to know if that is how I am going to need to do it forever. Personally, I think that when I am no longer morbidly obese, the rules will change. But I don't know.

And really, I am satisfied that I am "in with" some of the shining stars around here. There are great people on the m/e thread, and I read their journals and chat with them and get totally fired up and inspired. That is what this website is all about, and it is working for me.

YMMV, but don't expect me to change for you...

On what do you base your statement about "most Americans don't eat many veggies anyway." ? I grew up on a farm and ate a lot of meat, eggs AND fresh veggies from our garden. My husband who grew up in a large city also ate about the same as I did. I have lived all over the world and I personally have not known anyone who didn't eat many vegetables. They may have preferred some vegetables more than others, but most liked veggies. My four children always loved vegetables. They called broccoli little trees and always asked for seconds. In fact one of their very favorite dishes that they always ask me to make is broccoli casserole. They also love brussel sprouts and cabbage. About the only veggies that don't like are canned vegetables. One of my kids hates fish and any kind of seafood, another hates whipped cream and they all hate liver.

As far as the m/e or carnivores being "shining stars" that may well be true, but I personally think that EVERYONE who is losing weight on the LC Forums is a BRIGHT AND SHINING STAR. Why single out just one group.? To think that one group "outshines" another group of low carbers is demeaning to all those who are losing weight or trying to lose weight with other low carb plans.

I think you are misunderstanding her meaning. I believe she didn't mean they were better than any other LCarbers, just that she has found people she really likes in the m/e thread. She in no way was putting anyone down, just complimenting the friends she has made. We all have "shining stars" in our lives and that doesn't mean we think the rest of humanity are 'outshined'.

I have been off the boards for about two months now due to a move, and I finally get back on line and see this thread. I am sorry and disapointed to read it and to see that once again we are singled out, one for our choice of eating plan, and secondly for the amount of posts that we make to talk to our friends and biggest source of support. Perhaps the thread wouldn't monopolize the section it is in if we had a place of our own?? The Meat and Egg thread is the only place we can post for all of our questions, concerns, successes, and advice. There is no section for us, where we could post individual threads to different issues, as there is in other areas. So that being said, if you don't like the thread or don't agree with it, don't read it. Plain and simple. There is nothing in the forum rules that states you must read a thread that you do not agree with or that offends you in some way. Please just leave us alone.