K,
First of all I love your taters. I know that could sound suggestive given our topic of discussion but…. I am a total SW geek, we play TP SW edition all the time. I’m scared by how much I know about the saga.

I’ve always felt that men who said more than a mouthful/handful were just saying that to be nice. It’s like one of those things they say to make us feel better, but not really what they think or feel. I don’t know, my male friends are very honest with me in most respects but they’re not going to say something that could potentially hurt my feelings. And men I’ve interviewed or talked to randomly have nothing to lose by being blunt, particularly when I’m not their “type”.

Can I ask how you’ve managed to NOT feel belittled when you’re in the same predicament as me and surrounded by a family of full bodied women? I’m not being sarcastic here, I’m trying to discover your secret and figure out where you went right and I went wrong? I realize that surgery will not solve anything, I’ve said it before. But I also realize that without some sort of physical change, neither will my happiness quotient. I will continue to be increasingly dissatisfied with my body. I’m in limbo right now and I’m terribly depressed about it. I can’t stand to look at myself in the mirror. The more weight I lose makes me more miserable in proportion to my bra size. Actually my weight has stalled despite my best intentions, so that’s another problem. Given my rigorous training program and dieting I should be Nicole Richie size (not that I want to be), I’m just saying.

I also understand that if I have the surgery, this will only be an additional item on the menu for my family to laugh about and joke about. In my family to tease = is to love. We all do it. Sometimes it’s hurtful and sometimes it’s well, it’s mean but we all take it. Cuz that’s what we do. I’m sure it would become a running joke, then again it’s not as if my current cup size isn’t already…..

I did therapy for a few months, and felt it was helpful for certain things but not effective enough for me in this arena. Liked my therapist, felt comfortable with him, was very frank with him but ultimately its all talk and little action. Although I am a writer, I prefer to be a (wo)man of action. I can talk until I’m blue in the face, and have, but it doesn’t bring about a resolution of the issue. In this case, it’s more than a matter of being more assertive or overcoming a particular fear. This is a physical problem, not mind over body.

Speaking of family putting things into perspective, when I was at their house on Saturday for the party, Marcy and I were in the kitchen (I had already gotten my glimpse and squeeze) we were discussing the surgery and the outcome, etc. I always had heard about how fake implants feel/look/sound (something about the water sloshing about inside) but hers looked absolutely real from underneath her lacy bra. Even the scarring was unnoticeable. The difference between us is that although we once were similar is cup size, she’s had four kids and her breasts have stretched to accommodate milk those times whereas I had only slight growth even after a 70 lb. weight gain. I have practically zero breast tissue, so if I get implants the eventuality that they’ll look VERY fake is very real.

Back to the kitchen, while we were in there, my cousin/her husband Robert joined us. Now, he was initially resistant to her getting the implants but when she came to him this year with her proposal, supporting arguments and even financing he had to give in. I said to him, “So, you like your new toys?” He’s a total technophile; he has the Xbox, the Game Cube, the Playstation, the wide screen (he wants a plasma), etc. Even though they claim its for the kids, I know he uses them as much as anyone. He just smiled shyly, embarrassed to admit anything. Then I said, “This is better than a flat screen, huh?” and he said, “Hey, I was happy with my 27 inch.” Right answer. I love him. He’s one of the best guys I know.

Don't let them get you down. Most people talk bad about others to build themselves up well least they think it does. Their probably feel just as insecure as you do, that's why they have to point out your flaws to take attention away from theirs. My mother in law used to critize me for losing to much weight on Atkins & saying that I looked anorexic & now she's saying that I'm getting too fat & has ask has your DR said anything yet, I told her no, well I'm sure she'll say something soon. And she never says it while we are alone just when there's several other people around, who aren't family. I've just come to except it as she feels bad about her weigh but doesn't have an excuse so, she feels the need to point it out to others "Hey Look I'm not the fat one around here" I actually feel sorry for her, because I know once I give birth I'll lose most of it or I know how to any ways. Then I can bet my life that she's going to say something about that too. I just let it go in one ear & out the other.

No offense but I don't like LA , the most people there seem so shallow. I'd move to a different town. Me & a friend were talking about people from certain areas, I told her I could never go to New York because I'd develop inferior complex real fast. Here in TX people are very friendly & complete strangers will carry on conversations as if they known you for a long time. It doesn't make what you do or make. Well in most areas just as long as you ain't a child molester, they don't like those at all.

First of all, you poor thing! You live in LA??? The Land of The Fake. Sadly, you (and your family) are being bombarded with false enhanced images all day, every day, not just when you watch TV or read a magazine. I feel for you. I originally came from a city and so many people are "tall and thin" (maybe us heavier folks are hiding away in shame or something?) whereas, in my lovely small town, most of the women aren't "glamorous". Yes there are thin women and medium women and heavier women and we all have different size breasts and butts and we're mostly all natural. I think there's a different mindset in a small town. Secondly, having an unsupportive family myself (about weight not boobs), I have choosen to spend as little time with them as possible. THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR HOW THEY TREAT YOU!!!!! Yes, it's a product of poor self esteem in themselves. But that does not mean it is okay to make someone else feel poorly. It's called Emotional Abuse. Period. It's nice that your Aunt apologized. But (perhaps this is just my own bad experiences talking) be aware that many times it's just a ploy to make themselves feel better about how they treat you, assage their own guilty concience. It won't, however, prevent them from doing it again the next time. Just like the abusive husband who promises it will never happen again. You can tell your family that you will no longer put up with their abuse (it's scary but believe me, you'll feel so much stronger!). If/when they start in on you, say "I won't put up with your low self esteem." firmly, politely, and WALK AWAY or LEAVE the party. They'll probably try to make you feel like your "overly sensitive" or a "baby" or "we were just joking, can't you take a joke?" or "fine then. run away". Ignore it all. Walk away. They lose their power. Cuz that's what it's all about, why they do it. They gain power over you to make you feel better about themselves. Just like any schoolyard bully. Good luck!!!

Hey Vgal...

I don't want you to think I'm ignoring you... this is a really busy week for me. We've got our sales meeting this week which means three full days (and nights) of information stuffing... and not much time to log on and spend time here!

I will give you my short answer now and hope to get back with you in more detail this weekend...

I guess the quick version would be that even when people were pulling me down my Mom always made me feel good about myself. When I noticed that I wasn't as "developed" as other girls my mom continued to tell me that the size of my breasts didn't make me any different from others. I wish it were easy to tell you in the short version... I had many times when I was in tears... and times when I did consider breast enhancement. I guess what it all came down to for me was a few quiet moments when I considered whether surgery was what I really wanted to do because that was what society expected... or if it was what i wanted.

Now... that is the short version. When I have more time this weekend I'll try to give you a longer answer. Don't make any rash decisions... and I don't think you will because you sound like a very intelligent person.

I'll be back when I have more time... I have to go do laundry, dishes and pack....

K

I understand the power of words. Being a writer, I know all too well the damage they can inflict and sometimes worse than a punch or a slap. My mother could be the queen of silence. There were times I wished she had hit instead of ignoring me or yelling at me. She was not abusive in the traditional sense, maybe borderline emotionally or psychologically, but it wasn’t her intention. That’s just how she was brought up, it was the way she was forced to survive. I used to be one of those people who felt the need to put other people down in order to boost my self esteem, but now I’m much kinder. Maybe I grew up, maybe I became the victim of someone who constantly did it to me and forced me to quit the habit, but over the years I’ve become less and less judgmental about others but more about me instead. I think some of my hard edges got beat out of me. It takes too much effort to fight, and I’d prefer to save that energy for more productive uses. I can understand where my aunt or my mother or even where I came from; my Nana is not the type to dole out compliments. In fact, she’s more apt to blurt out a criticism than she would be to admire someone’s attributes. I feel badly for my poor mother because she’s had to live with this her whole life and as much as I love my Nana, I resent her continuously putting my mother down when my mother has done everything she could to support my Nana both financially and everything else. But my mother comes last to my Nana and it saddens me. I can understand where my mother’s coming from, she didn’t want to set me up for disappointment. We weren’t brought up with false hopes and dreams. I was never misled to think anything other about myself than the reality of the truth.

Speaking of truth, I LOVE LA! I’m a diehard. I’ll never leave here. I wouldn’t WANT to live anywhere else. For all its fakeness and plasticity, I thrive here. LA is the epicenter of the entertainment industry and that’s my bag. Yeah, there are a lot of shallow people in this town, but there are also quite a lovely bunch of non fake, shallow people if you make the effort and get to know them. Also, I don’t really rotate in that type of circle of friends. With the exception of a few musicians, they’re all pretty normal, average people. I’ve visited other cities including Tampa and Dallas and other parts of CA, but I can’t wait to return home. Besides all my family is here and inspite of their craziness, wackiness, and drama I still love them too.

K,
Don’t worry about not answering me. I’ve been SUPER busy for the past three weeks straight. I am so tired of typing and writing truth be told. You’re very lucky your mom supported you and helped you develop a healthy sense of self. My mother never said anything one way or the other, even to this day. She might make a comment like I’ve lost too much weight but seriously I could be bulimic in front of her and she wouldn’t blink. She would just assume I’m a smart kid and I know what I’m doing. Interestingly enough, both my mom and Nana are famous for their “meddling” ways…. go figure. And although she never outright said anything to condemn me for having no breasts, she always said/says, “Oh poor thing, she has no chest.” when she sees a model or an actress who is flat.

I know what you mean by loving where you live even though there's some quirks that come with the territory. I live in a town with population 1000, & we have quite a few quirks in this town. But I have no intentions on ever moving out of this town.

I also used to hang out with musicians alot, they were a lot of fun , my husband used to sing for a metal band in the 80's & early 90's when we met. He even had the long hair but you could never tell by looking at him now, because of his position he had to cut his hair & now looks more like he's military.

Correct me if I'm wronge, your still in your 20's right? But you'll see that when you are in your 30's people tend to mature & they aren't so shallow. I would think LA people will probably do the same.

hey vgal where do you live in l.a. or e.la.? i live on the border of east l.a. & monterey park( by the tower records). anyways i totally understand what u are talking abt. i am still trying to work up the courage to ask my mom to co-sign a boob job for me. the only thing is i am married and i have 4 kids and guess what my husband does not want me to get the surgery at all he says i just want attention from other guys cuz he thinks im fine just the way i am. he does not understand that it is just to make me feel good abt myself. i think if you want to do it for yourself then you should do it i mean hey you are young you dont have kids or any other expenses so why not go for it? and regarding the family thing yep i totally understand my family is the exact same way they had sh** to say when i was big and now they say crap cuz im not big. they insist i must be going to the diet doc( they are all over around here). the dumbest crap is that they are always talking abt how bad everyone else looks but they dont see them selves. everyone weekend is get drunk and make an ass out of yourself for them and since i cant drink beer or whatever im now the party pooper, who thinks she is to good. so anyways sorry abt the long post but if you want your boobies then do it, just remember do it for yourself cuz if you do it cuz you are worried abt what everyone else thinks it will be for nothing cuz they will just find something else to talk abt.

Your family problems hit home for me. I've got family like that too. Hey, do what you need to do to be comfortable in your own skin. If that means increasing your bust size and you weigh the risks and decide to go for it then good for you! If you lost a front tooth you would replace it, wouldn't you? You wouldn't need that tooth to eat and to survive because you'd still have all your other teeth and those who love you will still love you toothless but all the same I think most folks would replace the tooth for their own comfort and well being. I am not advocating surgery, I'm just saying be happy and be well. I'd like to suggest however that now is not the time for you to make this decision. Visit this issue after you've completed your master's. When that stress is removed you'll have a huge accomplishment to celebrate and then you'll probably move on with life and not feel so vulnerable and stuck. And maybe at that time this whole issue will become a non-issue. I wish you the best and congratulations on your masters.

I think you should think about it after you reach goal, because there may be other things you want done then, too, by the way, my DD is am H cup, with a size 5 jeans, not easy to live with that either, I hope she can get a reduction after she is done Breastfeeding this one.

My husband always said that "more than a mouthful is too much." My virgin mind was shocked the first time I heard that one! He loved me and was always rather fascinated with them in ample times as well as lean. Now that they're racing south, I'm thinking about having them hitched up once I've lost my weight. Gravity is much kinder to the smaller ones - like I used to have.

I apologize to all those who live in LA. I realize everyone is not shallow, honest. It just seems like so many shallow people tend to conglomerate there (and Vancouver, Canada!!) cuz of all the press "beautiful" people get. Perhaps they just never show you the normal folks on any TV shows, even in the background. Sigh. I just hated living in the city (obviously why I moved, eh?). And yes, all my family still live waaaaaay over there (home sweet home with loved ones far away) and truth be told, I'm much happier and MUCH less stressed that they are so far away. Josiemk, not sure if you were asking me about the 20's thing but if you were, I'm actually almost 35. Something about only young once but immature forever??? ehehehhehe...

Purrrkitte,
I was asking Vgal or anyone eles who felt bad about their appearance & felt unlovable because they don't have a certain look. I used to be shallow myself. I thought that if i was fat or ugly no one would like me. ANd when I was younger I'd strave myself to stay under 100 pounds. I'd never wear my glasses afraid it would make me look like a geek. And if I was at a club & someone guy came up to me who looked like he didn't fit in with our group, I wouldn't give him the time of day. So I was even doing it myself. But I grew up & realized that all people have good & bad in them. Some of the ugliest on the outside are the prettiest on the inside, & some of prettiest are the ugliest on the inside. Matter of fact there's this guy I used to date right back in high school who played foot for our #1 rival school. He was very good looking & well built but he had some issues going on that used to irritate me, but I choose to ignore them because he was cute. Then I was maturing & wanted something better then being someone's girl friend. So we went our seprate ways well about 5 years ago I ran into his older brother, and I asked how he was doing thinking he probably be married w/ kids by now. But he wasn't instead he was sitting in jail for selling drugs. I had to laugh & thank God I had come to my senses & gotten out of that relationship. Well we both laughed & agree I guess some people never change.

Sorry for this being so long. But most people do mature, some never really do. Like this ex of mine who had such an easy life every thing was given to him.

I couldn’t imagine living in a “small” town. From what I’ve heard, the small minded-ness and intrusion would drive me crazy! Again, that could be all misconception, but I have friends who are currently STUCK in smalltown, USA and from their descriptions I’ll take shallow and superficial over everybody knowing my business before I do it any day and twice on Sunday. I live in Los Angeles, but I’m close to ELA. I know the exact area you live, April! I used to shop at that Tower Records all the time and I served two years at ELAC too. What a small world. You and I also share similar stats in terms of weight, etc. And we share a common family. Let me guess, you’re Latina. Sounds like a typical Latin family dysfunctional unit if you ask me. Let’s talk shit about everybody else while we pick up the torta/tamale/six pack of Pacifico….. Yeah, my Nana had to constantly point out that I had gained A LOT of weight and then now I’ve lost most of it, she complains that I’m skin and bones and then somewhere in between she likes to point out that I’m flat as a pancake. Coming from a woman who wished she never had grown breasts, I will say it’s odd.

My cousin Robert didn’t want Marcy to get the implants either, she also had delivered 4 children, but let me tell you now that she’s got them – he’s not unhappy about it. If you’re interested in the financing company and Dr. that did them, holla. Her payments are like $139 a month and he did a VERY good job.

I think Vita is right about revisiting the issue once I’ve survived commencement and a possible job change. I’ve got a full plate right now, but at the same time, I’m very impatient. It’s as if I feel that now I’ve completed one stage in my life and I’m making good, albeit slow progress on my weight that I need to do something drastic to up the ante. I need something to make me feel GOOD about myself. I hate feeling this way. And Liddie is also correct in guessing that once I get my breasts evaluated, I’ll want something else done. I have the laundry list at hand and I’ve always said it would be a toss up between getting boobs or lipo on my thighs as first priority. If I’m lucky and can get my thighs a little bit smaller, I might be able to finance both if I decide to create the debt. My thighs are my last area of resistance and I want to shrink them naturally, my boobs aren’t (hopefully) going to get any worse except maybe smaller if that’s possible…. famous last words.

When I was younger, I considered going to school or working elsewhere. I wanted to go to Cal (UC Berkley) to complete my undergrad and eventually move to London or Paris to write/work. But when I visited Cal, I didn’t feel at home. In fact, I love SF but I hated Berkley. I transferred to USC instead and finished my BA there. Now that my kids are here, I’ll never want to be too far away from them for very long. I renew my vitality everytime I spend time with them. They are the reason I continue to be on this earth devote myself to becoming successful. Without them, my life is pointless.

For the record, I’m not in my 20’s, I’m in my early 30’s – although like purrrkitte said, only young once but immature forever could be me to a T. I’m 32 going on 12.

Oh, in case anyone out there is interested, I’ve decided to start a journal. Why not?

Vgal, it really depends on which small town you live in. I used to work in a near by small town which was much bigger then ours their pop. is around 40,000 & there was alot of cattiness going around there. I've seen & heard it from others if you weren't a certain race they didn't want you there or if you didn't make enough or if you did something taboo. But the town I live in is so different, most of the people here are framer or ranchers so you may live their for years & never meet them, I've never met the people across the street from me or I never see them except when their working in the yard or feeding their horses.

I didn't think you were immature, I was thinking that it sounds like you've come across alot of immature people that judge you on your appearance. I don't think your shallow either, I understand how you feel I also get irritated with others because of their joking about my small chest , no butt & then I gain weight like all pregnant women & they have to piont out how fat I'm getting. Sometimes I feel like saying well what's your excuse. But I'd rather make them look like the ass that they are.

BTW I would like a boob job after I have another baby & probably a tummy tuck too.

I agree with Josie. I have had similar problems with part of the community. However, I think it depends on the size of the town, the people you know, and whether or not you care what anyone else thinks. I had a really hard time with the gossip a couple of years ago but since then I've changed "friends" and not had anything like that to worry about. My town is big enough that I can do that. My DH grew up in one where it wasn't. And, most of all, now I don't give a rat's ~$$ what the others think of me anymore!! Some would say that I have a bad attitute. It keeps my sanity not trying to please everyone, for a change. However, that said, I love this town and I wouldn't move if you paid me.
I quite agree that if you'd like a boob job when all is said and done, go for it. Just make sure whatever you do, do it for yourself and to please no one else. If you do it for someone else, you may just find that you're still not happy inside. I also think it would be nice to have a tummy tuck. My poor tummy is so stretched from the twins. Kinda like all those old commercials with the treadmills... you know where the tummy disappears and just loose saggy skin is left... yah.