I hear ya on the "doctors know best" mindset...and I can't say I disagree. However, for me, I do feel more comfortable that someone knowledgeable has researched my WOE so I can feel confident that I am doing something healthy and safe....even if it is contraversial, and LCing as a whole is still considered contraversial.

There was a debate in the War Zone awhile back on this, I remember reading an article about a meat/fat lifestyle -- the specifics sounded healthy (not necessarily enjoyable for me personally), but quite different than the trendy/tweaking of the m/e fasting that I've seen develop since my own LC journey started.

*I don't feel good after a week of lowering my carbs in the 10/15 range. My body tells me that *I need some healthy carbs in order to function properly.

You said you cycle in and out of induction as well, so you aren't totally on the m/e all the time, right?

I am interested in seeing how maintenance goes for you, and hope you will join us soon to share your progress.



The increased weight gain you had....was it just water weight?

Thank you for your experience and opinions Amory.

But your cycling between M&E and Induction levels of carbs is not the same as stayng on M&E as a plan forever. That was the point of this thread in the first place. Personally, I have no trouble at all, with using a M&E fast as a stop gap to end a stall or plateau. But when so many new members are seduced into thinking they will have fast weight loss doing M&E and not bothering to do it the way it was originally written, +5 grams carbs at a time in OWL.....then this is not even a conversation.

You are a very bright and educated young woman. At 5'10", I'm sure that you are stunning at your current weight. Even at your high weight, I'm sure you wore it well but probably did not feel very well. I'm happy for you that you've found a system that is working for you.

I've used carb cycling to break me out of 2 stalls as I lost my weight. I could not sustain very low carb long term as I did not like the way it had me feeling physically.

To each his own!!

Not to change the subject, BUT, LOL.....carb cycling is another subject we haven't covered as maintainers.

Judy, you said it broke two of your stalls...how did you do it?

I'm going to answer you on this in private Lori!!

So few of us actually reach our goal AND stick around to talk about it that it might be a bit early in the game to have many folks doing full time M&E to talk to about this particular part of it as a maintenace/pre-maintenace WOL.

I guess time will tell. It wouldn't be my choice, but I was fortunate that Atkins worked for me and I didn't have to/want to try anything different.

I'm not so sure about that....perhaps they are merely sticking to their own support threads, with pop ins everywhere else when their WOE is discussed.

Maybe I have been around this forum too long at this point -- I remember during my weight loss mode, there was tons of support for sticking to your plan as written, avoiding processed foods and trends, etc., which I found to be a tremendous help.

With this subject on the mind the past few days, I've been browsing the main areas more thoroughly, and M/E fasting, lifestyle -- whatever is literally everywhere.

Is this the new WOL for success? The lower the carb, the better?

I will say that I am very glad that I found this forum when I did, over a year ago.....can't say I would have been able to obtain support, or even be successful in my plan, if I was constantly advised to eat only meat/eggs -- or raw meat.

Hi Judy, great thread.

I see a crucial difference between SB and an atkins like plan, and that is the emphasis on fat. Fat is the only metabolically "neutral" energy source - that is to say, it has nearly no effect on insulin but it energizes as carbs or protein might.

I think a high fat (atkins-like) is better suited for a person with a more advanced derrangement of metabolism, because right away it starts you with a base of food that can't possibly upset you. Eating very high fat and no carbs really lets you understand what normal feels like... and for me, the line between normal and sugar unstable is really thin.

SB I think is better for someone who has a less extensive sugar insensitivity, and the primary issue is eating the correct foods in correct balance. Or, alternately, if you have an issue really making a more radical change work, then SB can help you eat more "normal" (conventional) but still get the most significant benefits of low carb.
Personally, I've reviewed SB menus and I could never eat that way. The lack of fat, and the fruit and grains, would leave me very sugar unstable, hungry, and just not happy. For me, it's really all about fat. Protein does not do it and actully upsets me if I eat enough of it.

With that said, I also find that zero carb is not the best either. My sweet spot where I feel most energetic is more than 30 carbs, but less than 50. More than 60 and I'm in trouble, less than 30 and I'm not doing good either.
Right now, I eat nuts EVERY day, berries almost every day, plenty of veggies and non sweet fruit. I definitely do not eat a carnivorous diet, but, my diet is rather low in carbs and higher in fat; I just feel best that way.

Originally I lost weight by eating more carbs than I could handle, but I was restricting so much that it wasn't that much of a problem (restricting allows me to better tolerate carbs). Now I realize that to truly maintain and be happy I must eat high fat, mod protein (30%), and very low carb - I shoot for an average of 40.

I remember feeling like I HAD to suddenly eat all different things because I was done.

I'm way over that. I eat nuts, berries, veggies, meat, dairy. Ya know what? Those are the real foods, and I'm fine. I no longer have a desire or a longing for fruit and I don't feel like I"m not really working this because I eat basic. I am very happy with what I eat now, much more than before when I was forcing myself to eat more carbs and always feeling hungry and having to restrict 24/7 from the frequent weight gain.

Hi Woo,

Yes I am hoping, and sometimes confident, that I will find that right balance for myself. I figure, since I haven't let my weight get really out of control over the last year, I am actually doing fairly good.

Ditto

I have been on the board since Sept. 03, and I remember this incredible upswing in interest in carb cycling in the winter of 04. It was as least as strong a trend as the meat and egg stuff is now. These things happen on boards from time to time.

I thought this too, but have you actually tried it?
I thik you cannot possibly KNOW that would happen unless you tried it. Not trying to encourage anyone to do that, but I think this is a generalized statement and not one based on fact so much.
just my 10c's worth.

H

Ok.....no problems here ...to each his own and if its working for you...great!!

I miss certain aspects of fat and I still eat some brie cause I like it....so there SBD!!

I bought boneless and skinless thighs simply because I do enjoy the juicy taste of dark meat and I was tired of breasts.....I spent about an hour cutting away as much fat as possible. Even with all the trimming, I got a taste of a piece of fat and it made me want to puke!! Not to my liking!!

But seasoned and crunchy skin?? Sure..I miss that too!!

Oh yeah, I've been on other boards long enough to see topics/interests go in cycles as people come and go....this is my first stint in any type of dieting forum tho.

Sounds like with any trend, this too, shall eventually pass?




SB isn't for me either, but my reasons are completely due to personal eating preferences. I don't like Atkins for myself either, when I first researched in order to choose a plan for myself, the induction phase seemed just a little too harsh for what was liveable for me.

PP stuck out to me as the plan that was closest to my previous WOE based on foods I liked, as well as the easiest one for me to personally follow.

In maintenance, I think all three of these plans are interchangeable. I can have grains and starches in moderation and still stay on my own plan, and the higher I go in carbs (according to PP), the lower my fat should be....after going without them for so long tho, I'd rather keep them out than risk missing them once I get a little taste.

What carb level is everyone at now, or do you still even strictly count?

I'm doing between 50-60 most days (I think, I don't record every little carb anymore), when I just don't feel like eating, I'll still lower them down to 20-30. I'd like to see if I can get them over 60 without a reaction, but for me, that would take adding back in some of the bad stuff....I just don't crave 70 carbs worth of veggies/fruit per day.

I have never formally followed SB but for weeks, months, etc I tried very hard to eat lower fat and higher carb. I ate more fruits, such as cantalope, apples, oranges. I ate grains, such as oatmeal. I reduced fat using no and low fat products, although diet was still rather high in fat at around 45%.

It was not worth the heart ache of going to bed worrying whether or not "tonight would be the night" where I became near bingy and unsatisfiable, or, if i could go to sleep feeling reasonably okay. AT first I tolerated it well, for a few reasons. Reason one was I was used to hunger, being in weight loss mode and used to never eating enough. Reason two is that I started eating this way while restricting cals, and restricting cals allows me to tolerate carbs better (since my body is burning its own fat in restriction, this attenuates insulinogenic potential of carbs). When I tried to maintain, it was not well, I could only feel "okay" if I were under eating. If I tried to eat normally I became hungrier and unsatisfiable right away, and I had *frequent* hypoglycemia.

Since returning to a fat based very low carb diet (haven't had oatmeal, apples, oranges, etc in so long and I really don't miss them - low carb cereal and berries are just fine thanks) this "more I eat the hungrier I get" thing still tends to happen (probably because weight is low, but it is not nearly as exacerbating now that my carbs are much lower. I almost never have hypoglycemia now wheraes before it was like after every MEAL i would be wondering if I'm going to be shaking and feel real crappy or not. I eat and don't worry because I KNOW I won't.

Just a note for accuracy. There is, ahem, another board with several people who have lost all their weight doing no veggies, some of them having started in TDC territory. There is a diet plan, called Stillman's, that is no veggies. The notion that no one succeeds on meat only, or that it has no track record of success is not exactly true; in fact, they have a page on Donaldson's all meat plan right here on this website.