Let's just change the title of the thread to, "Come join the bashing!"

Nope!! This is not bashing at all...rather an effort at making a very valid point.

I say this because I posed this question in the Maintenance forum, where those who post have gotten to or are near their goals. We are not newbies looking for fast weight loss and our experiences and viewpoints are very valuable.

I love this thread Thanks for posting it Judy. I often look at those 'plans' and I think there's absolutely no way I could follow anything like that, egg & meat or totally meat or anything like that would drive me nuts after a while. I like my food too much, in fact, I LOVE my food so much better now that it's working for me and helping me lose weight!!!!!!

The thing I love about my plan is that I don't have to be seen as a social outcast....what I mean by that is that I can go to a party and join in with the eating....so I can't have the chips and dip, but I can have veggies and dip....with a little tweeking I can eat along side my friends and not feel like I have to sit with a plate of boiled eggs or whatever these people are eating! (what the heck DO they have to eat if they just eat meat and eggs for heavens sake??)

I could never invisige eating like that long term....I mean, how freeking boring.

I'm sure it works for some (although I am still waiting for the evidence) and fine, if that's the way they chose to eat, then who am I to disagree, but for the main part, I see SO MUCH MORE sucess from people who eat a varied diet than those on what I would view as quick fix plans.

Anyway, hope I haven't over stepped the mark by posting in here (I haven't hit goal yet) but I thought it was a very good topic to discuss!

If you disagree with anything being posted in this thread, why not give some opinions of your own rather than dismiss this as "bashing"?

You have m/e listed as your "plan" and have been LCing since 2004....definitely long enough to accumulate some experiences with what works best for you.

Do you feel that following the m/e WOE has provided you with great success in weight loss and improved your health?

Good point, Lori and I agree. Jiggerz, I'd like to hear your story on the m/e WOE - have you had weight loss success? Has your health improved? How do you keep variety in your diet? Do you anticipate doing m/e forever?

I don't think it's the intent of anyone to bash the m/e WOE - my motto is "to each his own". After all, I'm doing Atkins and I have people in my family that just expect me to drop dead from a heart attack any day now.

My plan is also Protein Power. I started in June of 2004. I lost 40 pounds in about 6-7 months. Maintained for over a year. Then I did stray back to my old habits and gained 10 pounds. (We are human after all).

In February of this year, I was ready to do something drastic, and yes, I tried the M/E. It does control your appetite, but I also don't believe it is for the long term. It was really meant to be ONLY a stall breaker and to ONLY last for 3-5 days. Then you are supposed to go on induction levels and work your way back up the ladder. I did lose the 10 pounds, by the way.

I am back on my first love as of now. Protein Power includes such variety in your eating and is very healthy. When I need to get back on track, I will lower my carbs down to Atkins induction. Both plans are pretty interchangeable. I need to just stay focused. I feel very comfortable eating this way for life. Plus, you can have a low-carb ice cream bar if you want every now and then. I cannot go my whole life without a treat!

I know different things work for different people and I don't have the expertise to say what works for me will work for you and vice-versa. We all need to find what works for our bodies, but do it in a healthy way.

You all have done wonderful and I hope to maintain this way of eating for life. I feel great!!

I'm going to jump in here, even though I only "hit" goal weight yesterday so I'm not officially maintaining yet.

This may all change over the next few months, depending on how things go. But for now, this is what I plan to do:

Keep right on eating the way I eat. Forever.

Simple. Just like I've been doing for the past almost-two-years I'm going to eat meats, fats, veggies, cheeses on a daily basis. I'm going to toss in some berries here and there when I have a hankering for them. I'm going to bake flax muffins and have a slice of LC toast a few times a week. I'm going to have days where I eat way too many soy crisp chips or LC chocolate candy. I'm going to drink my water. I'm going to go to the gym several times a week.

Sure, that may be boring to some people. But frankly, I have enough excitement in the rest of my life....food doesn't have to be that stimulating for me!!

My first stab at low-carbing was in the mid-70s - I read the books by Stillman and Atkins, then bought a huge tin of salted redskin peanuts and ate nothing but - perhaps for 3 days? - and somehow lost the extra "baby-weight" that I had put on with my second child. Ah, the power of being young!

I then ate a modified low-carb diet in 1994 (hadn't read any books, didn't even know the concept - but just figured that sweets and floury foods were my downfalls....) and lost around 60-80 pounds.

Then in 1998 I found myself up in weight, and started with Sugar Busters, then Protein Power, then Atkins....

I now eat induction-level Atkins/Protein Power when I need to knock a few pounds off - the rest of the time, I eat considerably more carbs. However, I watch which carbs I eat (never ever processed sugar, for example). I eat fruit, vegetables, and some grains. I am waiting on a book that describes the glycemic index - sounds promising, but we'll see how it works for me.

So I guess I modify my WOE about as much as anyone can. I've found what works for me, and I'm happy with the results. I will continue modifying as I read more, trying to improve my health.

A typical (no extra weight day) for me could include:

• steel-cut oatmeal with low-carb milk, butter, and splenda, and a bowl of berries with some heavy cream, plus 2 mugs of coffee with half-and-half and splenda
• a packet of tuna with a large apple
• a huge salad, piece of grilled meat, and cantalope or watermelon

Obviously not Atkins induction level eating. Right now, I'm still working at getting 3 more pounds off, so the oatmeal, apple, and melon have gone - eating more eggs and meats.

Eating this way works until something out of the ordinary happens (such as throwing my back out and taking a bunch of muscle relaxants/pain killers, etc.) - then it's back to induction eating....

I'm not at goal yet, but I've switched over to maintenance eating for a while because, frankly, I'm burned out on dieting.

I started low-carbing in Sept 2003, and by the summer of 2004, I lost about 100 lbs eating low-carb, mostly Atkins in concept, but without the 5 gram increments, without the counting even. I had a YES/NO/SOMETIMES mentality with food. NO foods were the big no-nos, potatoes, rice, white flour, sugar. I didn't eat those at all. I wasn't perfect, but I avoided them 99.9% of the time. SOMETIMES foods were the carb ladder foods, legumes, low-carb breads and tortillas, nuts (due to the calories), and fruits other than berries. I ate SOMETIMES foods with caution and moderation. YES foods were Atkins induction foods and I ate as much as I needed to stay out of hunger with them.

After I lost the first 100 lbs or so, weight loss was harder, I needed to cut out the SOMETIMES foods and count calories to lose. I spent the next year (approximately) trying to do that, falling off (and making the mistake of falling off into the NO foods more often) and then going back to induction or my "old" style OF YES & SOMETIMES foods only. I spent the year cycling within a 20 lb range. A maintenance of sorts, but not a safe and reliable maintenance. It did teach me though that I wasn't doomed to regain all the weight. I could get back on track eating well after eating junk for a meal or a day.

Last fall, I went back to dieting, cutting calories in an effort to get to as low a weight as I could before my tummy tuck. I got to the low end of that 20 lb range I was working in and I had my tummy tuck in November 2005. The surgery and it's recovery time left me 10 lbs thinner again. And since then, I've lost about another 7-10 lbs by watching my calories and keeping my food choices closer to YES foods.

However, last month I tried to really cut calories drastically to lose some more weight, try to get to my goal in a quicker way. It burned me out and by the end of the second week, I was regaining even though my calories were really low. So, I'm taking a break. I don't know for how long, but for now, I'm on maintenance.

Maintenance for me right now is where my SOMETIMES foods are now YES foods too. And I eat when I'm hungry and stop when I'm full. I don't count anything but I think my carbs are probably averaging at least 100 a day. The NO foods are still a no most of the time, but I allow myself to indulge on a very infrequent basis. I've been doing this for about a month and my weight has been very steady.

I'm quite excited by this actually. This feels like real maintenance. I'm not eating without control and then reacting with restriction as I did for much of last year and I'm eating lots of food, feeling healthy and satisfied. I still want to lose 20 more pounds, but for now, I think this is the place I need to be, I need to have sometime to just be with my food. Live in harmony with it and my appetites instead of trying to control them. I'm quite enjoying this time.

Val

I'm very happy for you Val!! I think its a great idea to call it like it is for yourself. If you feel like it, join us in the weekly weighin thread...even to just share what you are going through if you don't want to weighin. Karen is going to be undergoing surgery soon and I'm sure she'd really appreciate hearing about yours.

I agree with you on enjoying my food now...it feels like the pressure is off......finally!!

I couldn't not jump in here. I am not on maintenance; I'm not even in what I consider OWL. I am however, embroiled in my fifth cycle of M and E.

I sort of resent Judy's comment that infers the blanket statement that all M/E followers are "newbies looking for fast weightloss." That said, I would like to contribute to this thread.

I've been doing Atkins since July 2003. My lowest weight was 155, I developed an immunological disorder and due to steroids (Predisone) I jumped up to 178 this December through no fault of my own. I followed Induction religiously the entire time I was being regulated by medicine and continued to work out six times a week, sometimes two hours per evening.

I am a runner (45-60 miles per week) and a weight lifter (5 times per week). I also do Pilates and play softball to fill in the cracks when I just don't think I'm doing enough.

After cycles of Prednisone left me in a size 12 instead of my usual size 8, I was devastated. I hadn't cheated over Halloween, Thanksgiving, Christmas, or New Year's. My menus were clean as a whistle, my levels of activity were sky high, but I was slowly becoming depressed due to my illness and the medication. I was on Induction for eight weeks and didn't lose a pound. In fact, I was gaining. Steadily. I pride myself on my cheat-free streaks (usually 100 plus days or more, cheats are considered SF Jello and whipped cream, I'm THAT strict with this WOE).

Why am I frontloading my post in this manner? Simply because I do not want to be considered an ignorant newbie whose point is invalid because I'm not on maintenance, though you will see by my stats I am six pounds from goal.

Meat and Egg fasting was the ONLY, I repeat ONLY way I could climb back down the weight ladder. I typically cycle 5 days of M/E with two consecutive days of Induction. To me, eating variety is not something I consider personally important, as I stopped basing my life on food and started getting real with the concept that food=sustainment, not life or social activity.

That said, I just wanted to caution this bandwagon that M/E works for people and they can find enormous success. I've been cycling M/E and Induction since January of this year and have dropped seventeen pounds. I don't get bored with my food choices, I enjoy the appetite suppression, and I feel healthier than I have since last September when I was diagnosed. My activity levels are WAYYY up (I ran five miles in 46 minutes yesterday and lifted), my skin is soft, and my hair is shiny. I could do this forever and would be most satisfied. I'm not some Atkins rookie, and I've kept the better part of 55 pounds off for over three years.

Continuing my theme of honesty here, I will lay it all on the table. Could I continue M/E for life? Most definitely. However, I do not personally want to at this point. I DO find myself becoming immersed in the "carbphobia" and realize that while I look at food as fuel, I enjoy fruit, nuts, and whole grains, so I plan to add them back in. However, I am going to do it the old-fashioned rung way--5 carbs a week. I never took my time to properly work through all rungs of Atkins, so I want to do it now.

I respect the opinions on this board and hope to soon be among the ranks of Pre-Maintenance and Maintenance posters. I just wanted to point out the M/E is NOT Satan incarnate, and that loads of people DO experience success with that particular WOE--and no, we are all not rookies looking for a quick fix. So there ya go Leslie, Judy, and MeBlady--here's your post from a veteran supporting M/E.

Thanks for dialogue.
~Amory

Amory, this question is sort of off-topic, but I've been wondering just how the prednisone (steroids?) contribute to weight gain. I know that they do, I just don't understand the mechanics.

Do they increase your appetite (even too much of the right foods will make you gain) or is it something entirely different?

My 21-year-old daughter was just put on steroids (for a drug [Elmiron] reaction, a really ugly and painful "rash"). She struggles with her weight (she's in the Air Force and because of her illness hasn't been able to physically train, but she still goes to mess hall where they serve high calorie meals that the rest of the group needs).

Thanks!

One of the many side effects of Prednisone is weight gain. This is due to increased thirst which correlates directly with severe water and weight retention. Prednisone is a corticosteroid, so ncreased appetite is common, but I was an anomoly there, considering I had barely an appetite and ate only Induction level appropriate foods.

Rapid weight gain is only one of many side effects. I encourage you to talk to your daughter's physician and bone up on literature concerning the ill and sometimes long-term effects of corticosteroids.

I actually needed to be put on extreme diuretics after cycling Prednisone. I needed five days worth of lasix, in which I expelled nearly ELEVEN liters of water. I was so swollen and miserable that I refuse to EVER go on Prednisone again.

Hope this helps.

Okay, Amory, you've included (reasonably so) my name in the anti-m/e'ers, so I'll bite ;-)

I don't think the M/E is the devil incarnate, and I don't think that all who do them are rookies looking for a quick fix. I DO think that it is an extreme tweaking of a LC plan already in effect, something invented by someone looking at weight loss first and health second.

I also think that this WOE is likely to backfire, wrecking one's motab., creating eventual nutricianal defiencies, pyschological carb allergies, and perhaps a physical intolerance to carbs that can be hard to overcome.

Most, if not all, LC plans out there are endorced at least by the medical professional who reseached and designed them. If there is a medically endorsed plan for M/E, I've personally never heard of it (the way the average m/e'er in this forum is doing it). The original Atkins plan comes closest (by my knowledge), but even Dr. Atkins himself updated his own plan as scientific info became more available.

Nothing you stated in your post swayed my opinion one bit.

There are exceptions, of course. I've personally seen two people who are doing m/e (or very, very LC) under the supervision of their doctor, and both involve specific issues with insulin response.

Your reason for the m/e, based on what you shared, seems geared toward the use of prednisone. Coming from a long line of asthmatics, my knowledge with pred. is that rapid weight gain is caused by the building of muscle tissue (building of muscle tissue can cause appetite increase and water retention)...something that a diet of mostly protein as well as intense resistance training is going to contribute to, not help. I won't dispute that lowering the carbs down to nothing (constant heavy ketosis) is going to counteract that....as you do say that this is working for you as far as weight loss.

If you would have posted this same post out in another area seeking advice, would I have offered alternatives to m/e? Yep!

Although you are a veteran to Atkins, would it be fair to point out that your experience with m/e is still quite new enough to not be able to determine your final outcome as far as weight loss and health?

Would it also be fair to point out that, although you state you can eat this way forever, that in six months, you may feel differently?

Lastly....would it be fair to point out that you haven't hit maintenance phase and still have a period of stabilization in front of you...and don't know the difficulties associated with this WOE that may or may not hinder that stabilization?

As a disclaimer, I will state that I have an open mind that is quite willing to change. I simply haven't seen anything from my current knowledge of the m/e to provoke a change in my opinion.

"Nothing you stated in your post swayed my opinion one bit. " ~MeBLady


I wasn't trying to.


And as far as M/E being endorsed by doctors, I really don't care. America often operates on a "doctors know best" mentality until the newest study comes out disproving a practice that's already been in place for fifty years. My mother actually happens to be my practitioner and is an emergency room physician. She is well aware of my eating my habits, intense exercise, and WOE. She is an Atkins advocate and supports a very patheolithic lifestyle and has even tried a week of M/E (even though she doesn't need to) just to see how it made her feel.

I'm not trying to sway you, as my eating habits aren't going to change.

SIDENOTE: As far as the Prednisone, I definitely didn't gain muscle. Over the course of three weeks I lost eleven liters of water after diuretics. Swelling ankles do not equate muscle gain to me.