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  #31   ^
Old Sun, Feb-26-06, 15:57
quax's Avatar
quax quax is offline
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Posts: 95
 
Plan: relaxed Paleo
Stats: 194/154/154 Male 177 cm
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Germany
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I have to confess, too, that I’m a veggie lover though not so much for the taste but more for the consistency/”eating experience”, I guess. My favorite snack, for example, is a raw carrot with some almonds eaten together. It’s hard to explain but I really enjoy chewing those two things at the same time.

For me every chunk of meat has to be accompanied by some veggies, I think it makes a perfect match (particularly regarding consistency and color)

However, I should add that my grandparents were vegetable (mainly asparagus) farmers and my job has partly to do with veggies, so I’m not really unbiased here.
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  #32   ^
Old Sun, Feb-26-06, 15:58
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,843
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
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Here's a test to see if you're a super-taster: http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/humanb...es/supertaster/

I might be a non-taster. I didn't have a magnifying glass but it looked like I had about 9 taste buds inside my paper punch hole.

Last edited by Nancy LC : Sun, Feb-26-06 at 16:10.
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  #33   ^
Old Sun, Feb-26-06, 16:09
Frederick's Avatar
Frederick Frederick is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,512
 
Plan: Atkins - Maintenance
Stats: 185/150/150 Male 5' 10"
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Northern California
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Yep, rated as a supertaster.

However, I like all sorts of meats though? So, how picky can I be, right?
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  #34   ^
Old Sun, Feb-26-06, 16:28
Dodger's Avatar
Dodger Dodger is offline
Posts: 8,758
 
Plan: Paleoish/Keto
Stats: 225/167/175 Male 71.5 inches
BF:18%
Progress: 116%
Location: Longmont, Colorado
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I don't know how anyone could not like asparagus. The first time that I tasted it, I was in heaven. It goes great with a nice rare steak.

My oldest son hates it though.
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  #35   ^
Old Sun, Feb-26-06, 16:31
Frederick's Avatar
Frederick Frederick is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,512
 
Plan: Atkins - Maintenance
Stats: 185/150/150 Male 5' 10"
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Northern California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodger
I don't know how anyone could not like asparagus. The first time that I tasted it, I was in heaven. It goes great with a nice rare steak.

My oldest son hates it though.


Amazing!

I'm with your son, on this one. Asparagus is one of the most bitter foods that I've ever tasted.
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  #36   ^
Old Sun, Feb-26-06, 16:52
quax's Avatar
quax quax is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 95
 
Plan: relaxed Paleo
Stats: 194/154/154 Male 177 cm
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Germany
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Frederick, just out of curiosity, do you taste fruits more/very sour? Black coffee more/very bitter?
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  #37   ^
Old Sun, Feb-26-06, 17:04
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,843
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
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Hmm... I'm guessing you don't like dark chocolate? It is pretty bitter. I just had some 85% chocolate and enjoyed the bitterness of it. I might actually be a non-taster.
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  #38   ^
Old Sun, Feb-26-06, 17:25
MissSherry's Avatar
MissSherry MissSherry is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 3,066
 
Plan: M&E Maintenance <5carbs
Stats: 170/109.5/115 Female 5'1"-5'2" w/ shoes
BF:31.1%/21.3%/19%
Progress: 110%
Location: By the beach in Florida
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I love this! This is how I eat most of the time! This is reassuring to me that the way I eat is not as bad as some would like me to think. I feel best on this plan and I am going to do my best to maintain this.......

I do love veggies though BUT when I add them back I start to feel bad again.

Last edited by MissSherry : Sun, Feb-26-06 at 18:48.
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  #39   ^
Old Sun, Feb-26-06, 17:26
theBear theBear is offline
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Posts: 311
 
Plan: zero-carb
Stats: 140/140/140 Male 5'6"
BF:
Progress:
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I eat butter, of course. Mayo is normally made with unsat veg oils and is high in salt. If you like the stuff, which I do, you should make your own from egg yolks, macadamia oil and lemon juice.

I love garlic.

I buy my meat like most people- at a good quality market. Due to where I live, in Australia, I am able to buy meat which is paddock fed (on grass) and not feedlot 'fattened' on grain, which only adds cost. Grain is not a natural food for bovines, and it requires the animal be fed a special mix of bacteria to digest it, also I do not particularly like the taste of feedlot beef.

Cows are NOT generally 'injected with hormones' nowadays due to stringent restrictions on residues in beef exports (usual is to feed a growth supplement for a period and withdraw it weel before slaughter), and even those who were, do not have any residues by the time of slaughter, the hormones, which are bovine, do not effect humans anyway- and the amount which is active in the animal is so slight in the relatively portion you would eat as to be measured in nanograms. hormones are not like LSD (effective in micrograms), and it requires a significant amount to have any effect at- that is- if the hormone is a human one, which is not the case with the bovine ones.

All meat is 'organic'- you cannot feed cattle (or other foodd animals like chickens ('organic' chickens suck- they are tough due to growing slower on a all grain based diet, lack plumpness and are tasteless) on chemicals like you can plants.

Paying the premium (often twice the usual amount) for so-called organic meat is like piling up your hard earned and setting fire to it- it is just plain dumb. Actually most organic meat is tough, lack a proper marbling of fat and has nothing to recommend it over normal beef in the nutrition department- save your money so you can buy more food with it.
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  #40   ^
Old Sun, Feb-26-06, 17:29
Frederick's Avatar
Frederick Frederick is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,512
 
Plan: Atkins - Maintenance
Stats: 185/150/150 Male 5' 10"
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Northern California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quax
Frederick, just out of curiosity, do you taste fruits more/very sour? Black coffee more/very bitter?


I taste fruits very vividly, whether they be sour or sweet. However, with fruits, I find the sour or sweet taste enjoyable to my palate. For example, if I have a very sweet orange, the extreme sweet taste sensation is enjoyable; or, even a sour sensation in lemon is equally enjoyable. When it comes to coffee, I do find it bitter and can taste it vividly. I don't dislike it intensely, and have come to appreciate it in certain blends.

I seem to like very sweet things, even if I taste them more vividly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy LC
Hmm... I'm guessing you don't like dark chocolate? It is pretty bitter. I just had some 85% chocolate and enjoyed the bitterness of it. I might actually be a non-taster.


Actually, I do like very dark chocolates. I like chocolates of every kind, maybe except for the 99% pure ones. Some of my favorite chocolates are the 85% pure ones. There are certain foods where I seem not to mind the strong taste sensation--chocolate is certainly one of them. Also, I don't mind the bitter bite of casis that exists in a strong cabernet.

Of course, some of these are acquired tastes. However, for whatever reason, I can't seem to acquire the same taste for veggies.
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  #41   ^
Old Sun, Feb-26-06, 17:56
BawdyWench's Avatar
BawdyWench BawdyWench is offline
Posts: 8,791
 
Plan: Carnivore
Stats: 212/179/160 Female 5'6"
BF:
Progress: 63%
Location: Rural Maine
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What about a gender connection? I've had a tough year. From last April to September, I gained 20 pounds eating the same amount or less, and exercising the same amount or more. For much of the time, I ran back to "home" and ate only meat and fat. I was feeling worse and worse.

Long story short, a nurse practitioner recommended that I up my carbs to 90 grams a day. She said that being so low in carbs and calories for so long contributed to my adrenal burnout.

I have to say, I'm starting to feel a little better, and I'm definitely sleeping through the night now, something I haven't done in months and months.

I'm 51 next month. My tests say I'm not menopausal.

Can gender have something to do with it? With whether an all meat and fat "diet" is the best?

Really curious. My head agrees with everyting that's being said here about all protein and fat. My experience, however, is starting to cast doubt on that.
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  #42   ^
Old Sun, Feb-26-06, 17:57
theBear theBear is offline
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Posts: 311
 
Plan: zero-carb
Stats: 140/140/140 Male 5'6"
BF:
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Chocolate, 100% unsweetened, is ~50% carbs. The xanthines are what give it a bitter taste (theobromine, caffeine and theophylline). The true (best) human diet is NOT about what 'tastes good'- actually most vegetables taste perfectly awful plain and virtually 100% of babies reject them on first exposure, while all accept meats (human milk and pulped meat are the only foods a newborn can digest- but be careful with the fat content). It is the complex of spices and cooking additives/techniques which make up 'cuisine' (I am a highly skilled cook).

Once habituated to the taste of vegetables, as I have noted, it is so difficult to move away from them that most people will never do it. The excuse is always those stated in the above posts by nancy lc et al. This is just their strong socialisation speaking loud and clear, it has nothing to do what is right, good or nutricious. At birth we have no 'taste' for anything, not even our mum's milk, just a sucking reflex. All food is acquired taste. The common question about 'isn't a diet of only meat boring?, is simply the result of the heavy spicing of most food items. Actually each feed of meat, even unspiced and when it is the exact same cut, smells and tastes heavenly and is consumed with gusto. Food does not have to be used as entertainment, but that is what it has come to be in our modern culture. Meals, especially in restuarants, are commonly treated as 'showtime'.

I dispute the claim about human coproliths in association with true plaeo- lithic remains- Those have been found only with meso- or neo- lithic sites. My research has not uncovered that claim for the true paleo- period. The claim of many modern 'research' projects are questionable, since financial sponsorship can and does predetermine outcomes.
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  #43   ^
Old Sun, Feb-26-06, 18:09
Gemmafafen's Avatar
Gemmafafen Gemmafafen is offline
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Posts: 893
 
Plan: Home tailored
Stats: 153/149/137 Female 5ft6in
BF:
Progress: 25%
Location: UK
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theBear-

You have some fantastically thought provoking and interesting views on socialisation and its effects on food choice/preferences. I have been thinking of writing my dissertation on a topic based around this.

If you would be so kind, could you recommend any books which helped you come to this conclusion?
I am at the very basic level with my reading but this very topic is what interests me- the socialisation of food and why we choose to eat certain things- just fascinating.

You are an inspiration, I hope you carry on contributing to this board.

Gemma.
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  #44   ^
Old Sun, Feb-26-06, 18:48
theBear theBear is offline
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Posts: 311
 
Plan: zero-carb
Stats: 140/140/140 Male 5'6"
BF:
Progress:
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I don't think books are going to provide a way to understand something like this. No one has previously written about it, because, like doing brain surgery on oneself, examination of our 'instinctive' and unconscious socialisation process is very difficult. Babies will 'trip' inbuilt responses in the adults and other children around them to provide answers and information on skills they need according to their age-window. Children will repeat things taught them seemingly endlesssly until they become skilled.

I have been long puzzled about how easy it was for me, and how nearly impossible for virtually everyone else to adopt the all meat diet. After 47 years of this, and I am not bragging when I say that I am a bit above the average intelligence, I have finally come to the conclusions I have made about human acculturation.

For instance read my essay on Children's TV. I worked for many years as a broadcast TV engineer and technician, during which time I had a funny feeling that all was not right with Sesame Street, that it somehow was damaging kids and not really teaching anything, but I could not put a face to what it was. The essay is not about diet, but about the very insidious and hidden destruction of our society which is ongoing today by taking the irreplaceable TIME for learning essential skills amongst our kids away and subsituting the passive watching of TV (the ubiquitous electronic 'babysitter'). If you want some literary insight into how we humans learn as children to become human, read the work of the famous child educator, the Countess Montessori. Hers may be the only written work which can be said to relate in some way to our (also) dietary acculturation.

You need only understand that we have only the most basic animalistic instincts at birth and our early cultural training is fixed so strongly into who we are that it can usually override them all. Failure of acculturation therefore is a very serious and difficult to remedy disaster for humanity.
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  #45   ^
Old Sun, Feb-26-06, 19:41
Duparc's Avatar
Duparc Duparc is offline
New Member
Posts: 586
 
Plan: self-designed
Stats: 216/189/190 Male tad under 6'
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Kirriemuir, Scotland
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Okay 'thebear' I don't swallow your thesis on dieting. Your URL is a commercial site; are you then seeking to make a few sales through foraging on this site or to spread your conquest further on free advertising?

Your interest is on a non-carb diet; we on this site are happy with the low-carb diet and until you can provide substantial evidence to the long-term benefits of your particular diet I intend to continue following the status quo of low-carbing. Surely there is some reason why human teeth have crunching maulers rather than ripping ones that are so beneficial to carnivores?

You advocate that you have been following this no-carb aspect for 47 years; this pre-dates all current research on the subject; how then were you informed about those benefits and what motivated you to step outside the arena of social convention especially when your web site is itself so conventional!

Finally, I am 75 and in good shape and that has been from a life-time on a conventional diet. While I readily accept the premise of excess carbs on a continuous basis being harmful, my supposition is that our bodies are designed to benefit from carbs and that a little is, indeed, beneficial.

To put my opinion in a simple arithmetical form; my guess is as good as yours!
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