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  #31   ^
Old Fri, Feb-10-06, 19:22
CindySue48's Avatar
CindySue48 CindySue48 is offline
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Posts: 2,816
 
Plan: Atkins/Protein Power
Stats: 256/179/160 Female 68 inches
BF:38.9/27.2/24.3
Progress: 80%
Location: Triangle NC
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I also buy bottled water, because of the hardness and taste of my tap water. I spent over $2500 when I moved into this house to get a filtration system and water softener set up.

The water still tasted bad and the extra sodium in the water make me extra thirsty!
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  #32   ^
Old Fri, Feb-10-06, 19:23
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ItsTheWooo ItsTheWooo is offline
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Plan: My Own
Stats: 280/118/117.5 Female 5ft 5.25 in
BF:
Progress: 100%
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I agree.
But, as with anything marketed to us, they are manipulating our emotions to think we are somehow better with this product.

1) There is the unsubstantiated irrational belief water in a bottle is more pure, or better. It is not, as you said.
2) There is the fact it is more attractive to have a water bottle, than it is to have a cup or another beverage. It's like advertising how healthy (and therefore superior/better/attractive) you are.
3) Celebrities drink water. From bottles. So should you.

It does tick me off, but I buy water sometimes too. I am also guilty of believing it is "better" even though rationally I know it's BS.
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  #33   ^
Old Fri, Feb-10-06, 19:35
Dodger's Avatar
Dodger Dodger is offline
Posts: 8,767
 
Plan: Paleoish/Keto
Stats: 225/167/175 Male 71.5 inches
BF:18%
Progress: 116%
Location: Longmont, Colorado
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveWell
I dont really care to feel any kind of a guilt trip over the bottles. I just happen to like water as opposed to soda pop - go make the people that drink soda all day long feel guilty, or the people that drink all that milk... or orange juice.. or... oh wait .. EVERYTHING comes in plastic. Why are you pointing at bottled water? Seems like I should start a thread about my annoyance of this thread.

As has been noted before, water is available to you in the house unbottled. If my taps had soft drinks, milk, orange juice, beer, etc. then I wouldn't have to buy them bottled.
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  #34   ^
Old Fri, Feb-10-06, 22:21
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nawchem nawchem is offline
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Posts: 8,701
 
Plan: No gluten, CAD
Stats: 196.0/158.5/149.0 Female 62
BF:36/29.0/27.3
Progress: 80%
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I spent all my childhood drinking water out of the hose. If we hadn't watered for a while the water was hot and rusty tasting. I survived that and running in the house with scissors.
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  #35   ^
Old Fri, Feb-10-06, 22:36
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
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Posts: 25,866
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
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Not the scissors!

You know, 10-20 years ago we didn't have much in the way of bottled water. How'd we survive?

I drank out of the hose too. Hmmm... perhaps that explains a few things.

Last edited by Nancy LC : Fri, Feb-10-06 at 22:43.
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  #36   ^
Old Fri, Feb-10-06, 22:51
PlayDoh's Avatar
PlayDoh PlayDoh is offline
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Posts: 1,479
 
Plan: modified atkins
Stats: 198.5/183/130 Female 5'2"
BF:
Progress: 23%
Location: northern california
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now you aren't even supposed to drink out of the hose unless it is a hose graded for potable water. when i was a little kid, i did in fact drink water out of the hose, and i remember it being some of the coldest sweetest tasting water i had ever tasted in my life.

did i try it as an adult? but of course

not at all the same thing, totally putrid lol
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  #37   ^
Old Fri, Feb-10-06, 22:53
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
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Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
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Well, except when the hose was sitting in the sun for a long time with water standing in it. Then it was hot water that tasted kind of grassy.
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  #38   ^
Old Sat, Feb-11-06, 09:07
Lisa N's Avatar
Lisa N Lisa N is offline
Posts: 12,028
 
Plan: Bernstein Diabetes Soluti
Stats: 260/-/145 Female 5' 3"
BF:
Progress: 63%
Location: Michigan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodger
As has been noted before, water is available to you in the house unbottled. If my taps had soft drinks, milk, orange juice, beer, etc. then I wouldn't have to buy them bottled.


I think as with many products out there, bottled water is usually not a matter of necessity but of convenience and taste. Lots of people don't like the taste of the water that comes from their tap or don't trust the quality. Hey...tap water doesn't work for everybody.
Orange juice comes from oranges that come in their own environmentally friendly packages...no need for any kind of carton; squeeze your own.
Beer is available in kegs that are reusable, so no need to hurt the environment with that nasty glass stuff.
Milk..hey, get your own cow. You can help the environment by not needing to mow your lawn (and probably several of your neighbors as well ) and not needing to waste gas driving to the store whenever you need a gallon. What's a little manure among neighbors, right?
Is is really necessary to buy whipped cream in plastic tubs or aerosol cans? Why not whip your own?
Do we really need our meat on little styrofoam plates and wrapped in plastic?
Do we really need our fruits and vegetables in plastic bags?
For that matter, do we really need to carry our groceries home in plastic bags that aren't recyclable?
My point is that many of us buy products in the packaging that we do because of convenience and not necessity. I'm not going to criticize the bottled water drinking person, whose bottles are recyclable BTW, while I'm carrying home my vegetables and fruits in poly bags that aren't.

BTW...how many people here recycle?
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  #39   ^
Old Sat, Feb-11-06, 10:02
Dodger's Avatar
Dodger Dodger is offline
Posts: 8,767
 
Plan: Paleoish/Keto
Stats: 225/167/175 Male 71.5 inches
BF:18%
Progress: 116%
Location: Longmont, Colorado
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While I do recycle (the city provides curbside recycling), I have found that since I started eating low carb and not eating packaged processed foods, my trash and recycling amounts have gone way down. I do use more plastic wrap as I buy larger amounts of meats and cheeses and freeze them in smaller pieces. I use a lot of reusable plastic containers also.

There was a investigative article in one of the local papers a few years ago and concluded that a significant amount of plastics that are picked up for recycling end up in the dumps. It's cheaper to make new plastic than to use old plastic to make new products. Aluminum seems to be the only material that is cheaper to reuse than to make new.

I do almost all local travel on a bicycle, so I take my reusable nylon bag with me for shopping. The automatic response of most checkers is to stuff my purchases into plastic bags anyhow.

I would love to have a few goats to keep my grass cut and to provide dairy products, but I would be arrested if I did. It's against the law to have farm animals in the town.
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  #40   ^
Old Sat, Feb-11-06, 10:06
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
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Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
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I know everyone tries to assuages their guilt with recycling but you shouldn't imagine that it restores or replaces the needless waste of resources. Sometimes it takes more energy to recycle something than it does to create a brand new one.

I don't know if anyone bothered to read it, but 85% of the bottled water containers are ending up in the trash as well.

Everyone is using their convience to justify their bad habits. What will happen when China, India, and Africa begin to do the same? What sort of cesspit will this earth become? What sort of wars over resources will we have?

You don't need to go to extremes, or draw them here to make a point, but every now and then I think we need to look at our lives and eliminate the as much of the ridiculous over-consumption as we can. So we have to spend 5 minutes a day using a filter pitcher.
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  #41   ^
Old Sat, Feb-11-06, 10:07
ProfGumby's Avatar
ProfGumby ProfGumby is offline
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Posts: 2,927
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 361/285.0/240.0 Male 5'11"
BF:Shake Hands w/Beef
Progress: 63%
Location: In Da U.P. eh? Menominee
Default Far Out and Freaky Stuff Man!!

Remember when the Perrier had the Benzene scare???

I really trust no one that handles my food that I can't see. I really distrust any food manufacturer with names like Kraft etc... The word spices on a label can mean anything from MSG to God knows what.

What does this have to do with water? Everything.

Where I work we sell the half liter bottles of Poland Spring in the 24 packs. I buy them when I don't have water with me. I do not like the taste of that stuff! But I dislike the tap water here even more!

Add to that Menominee MI is one side of the river and Marinette WI is the other, and both have their own municipal water supplies, both come from the same polluted waters of Green Bay, and both taste like different forms of crap.

The ground water around here is equally nasty and in the town of Peshtigo, their tap water has some nasty chemical in it (I can't remember) but many I know will not drink the tap water there.

There is an abnormally high incidence of cancer and kidney disease round these parts. No one seems to know why. I think it is the water! I was able to tour a new, HUGE, medical facility here when it opened. Their Dialysis room has like 15 or 20 machines in it! The room is big enough to be a friggin dance hall! And the nurse showing us around said many times there is a long wait to get on a machine! I asked why they thought there was such a disproportionate need for so many machines and she looked shocked that I figured out there was a problem in the community. She said they did not know why there "seemed" to be such a need. I said I thought there was something in the water and either in the, or lacking in the soil. She looked at me like I just asked if I could eat her cat!

So, I do drink bottled water when given the chance, especially instead of Soda Pop. I had a Brita filter, but was unsure if it was removing the pollutants and crap in the water. So I mostly drink distilled water. I generally buy a 1-liter bottle of Aquafina; they don't add shit like dasani does! In fact I detest any water bottler that adds anything to the water!

Anyway I buy a one-liter bottle and then refill that bottle for weeks on end. Yes I do wash the bottle so I don't get goofy stuff in there. I buy the Aquafina bottles also because of the wide mouth and they are thicker and last a few weeks.

(Side note: There is a lady I work with who does the same. But she has well water and does not clean the bottle!!! EEEEEEEEEEW!, is right!!! Her bottle is rust stained and has a fine layer of brown algae in it sometimes!!! Makes me wanna puke!)

I want to get a reverse osmosis system but that is like 700 bucks and cannot spend that now. So I buy 6 or 7 gallons of Distilled or spring water and refill on the go. (I like Buffalo Dons Distilled and Spring water or Wal-Mart’s distilled or filtered)

I also am not real crazy about the plastics they use in these bottles and would rather have a glass bottle, but then that is hard to carry around and they do not drop real well! Actually the drop very well, it is what they do on the sudden stop at the end that sucks!
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  #42   ^
Old Sat, Feb-11-06, 10:23
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
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Posts: 25,866
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
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Don't reuse the bottle too often. Those plastics leach stuff as they're meant to break down quickly. I'd advise buying a more durable bottle and reusing that.

Here's more info on Bottled water hype:

http://www.nrdc.org/water/drinking/qbw.asp

Quote:
1. Isn't bottled water safer than tap water?

No, not necessarily. NRDC conducted a four-year review of the bottled water industry and the safety standards that govern it, including a comparison of national bottled water rules with national tap water rules, and independent testing of over 1,000 bottles of water. Our conclusion is that there is no assurance that just because water comes out of a bottle it is any cleaner or safer than water from the tap. And in fact, an estimated 25 percent or more of bottled water is really just tap water in a bottle -- sometimes further treated, sometimes not.


2. Is bottled water actually unsafe?

Most bottled water appears to be safe. Of the bottles we tested, the majority proved to be high quality and relatively free of contaminants. The quality of some brands was spotty, however, and such products may pose a health risk, primarily for people with weakened immune systems (such as the frail elderly, some infants, transplant and cancer patients, or people with HIV/AIDS). About 22 percent of the brands we tested contained, in at least one sample, chemical contaminants at levels above strict state health limits. If consumed over a long period of time, some of these contaminants could cause cancer or other health problems.


3. How can I find out where my bottled water comes from?

A few state bottled water programs (e.g., Massachusetts and New York) maintain lists of the sources of bottled water, but many do not. Try calling or writing the bottler to ask what the source is, or call the bottled water program in your state or the state in which the water was bottled to see if they have a record of the source (your state's health or agriculture department is most likely to run the bottled water program). If you choose to buy bottled water and are concerned about its safety, buy brands with a known protected source and ones that make readily available testing and treatment information that shows high water quality.


4. How can I determine if bottled water is really just tap water?

Often it's not easy. First, carefully check the bottle label and even the cap -- if it says "from a municipal source" or "from a community water system" this means it's derived from tap water. Again, you can call the bottler, or the bottled water program in your state or the state where it was packaged.


5. What actions can I take to improve bottled water safety?

Write to your members of Congress, the FDA, and your governor (see below for contact information) and urge them to adopt strict requirements for bottled water safety, labeling, and public disclosure. Specifically, point out to these officials that they should:

* set strict limits for contaminants of concern in bottled water, including arsenic, heterotrophic-plate-count bacteria, E. coli and other parasites and pathogens, and synthetic organic chemicals such as "phthalates";

* apply the rules to all bottled water whether carbonated or not and whether sold intrastate or interstate; and

* require bottlers to display information on their labels about the levels of contaminants of concern found in the water, the water's exact source, how it's been treated, and whether it meets health criteria set by the Environmental Protection Agency and the Centers for Disease Control for killing parasites like cryptosporidium.

Members of Congress and governors should also pass legislation providing the resources for the FDA and state regulators to actually enforce the law.

To take further action, you can encourage your bottlers and the International Bottled Water Association (a trade organization that includes about 85 percent of water bottlers) to voluntarily make labeling disclosures such as those above.

Contact information:

FDA
Jane E. Henney, M.D.
Commissioner, U.S. Food and Drug Administration
5600 Fishers Lane
Rockville, MD 20857
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  #43   ^
Old Sat, Feb-11-06, 12:26
PlayDoh's Avatar
PlayDoh PlayDoh is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,479
 
Plan: modified atkins
Stats: 198.5/183/130 Female 5'2"
BF:
Progress: 23%
Location: northern california
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profgumby, i've never heard of the perrier benzene scare and would be interested in reading about it if you have a link you'd like to share.

nancylc, we do recycle, but, we'd recycle more if more products were accepted. many of the pet bottles, shampoo/detergent bottles will not be taken. maybe it is too costly to recycle them, i don't know, only that what will be taken is very limited. we used to buy powdered laundry soap in a box but now we have a front loading maytag and have to use high efficency soap which comes in big bottles. but we do reuse the bottle for mom's insulin needles

well, i went to the crystal geyser website and have to say i am impressed with their processing practices. it truly is bottled at the source. my local source is Mt. Shasta and if you take the virtual tour, http://www.crystalgeyserasw.com/tour.html
you can see it right there in the mountain tops.

here is what crystal geyser has to say about their product


THE DIFFERENCE

Bottled at the Source.

Our geologists discovered remote, protected locations with water of remarkable quality and purity... but that is only the first step. Other companies may truck their water from multiple sources. We, on the other hand, build our bottling plants right at the mountain source because it's the best way to bottle and protect CRYSTAL GEYSER® ALPINE SPRING WATER™'s freshness, purity and taste.

Awareness

Another key benefit to choosing bottled natural spring water is awareness. Municipal, or tap water, is drawn from several sources, some are often unknown to the consumer. We can guarantee CRYSTAL GEYSER® ALPINE SPRING WATER™ comes from a natural spring because it's at these springs our four bottling plants are located. Curious where your water came from? Check the label. Each protected natural source is prominently featured on every label, and every water is inscribed with the date it was bottled.

Awareness

BECOMING MORE AWARE.
Compare facts about our product to those of Municipal Water:

REGULATION
Municipal Water is regulated by one agency - the EPA , or Environmental Protection Agency.

CRYSTAL GEYSER ® ALPINE SPRING WATER ™ is regulated on three levels:



Federal, State and Trade association. Our product must comply with the FDA's (US Food and Drug Administration) Quality Standards in Section 165.110 (b) of Title 21 of the Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) from production, to packaging to consumption. Our product also complies with the FDA's Good Manufacturing Practices. In addition, we must also comply with state and industry regulations.

BECOMING MORE AWARE.
Compare facts about our product to those of Municipal Water:

TESTING
Municipal Water is tested by a certified lab.

CRYSTAL GEYSER ® ALPINE SPRING WATER ™ is subject to both general food GMPs , Good Manufacturing Practices, and GMPs specific to bottled water processing.

General food GMPs govern building and grounds maintenance, sanitation - including water supply; plumbing and sewage disposal. Bottled water GMPs provide detailed regulations governing plant design and construction, sanitary facilities and operations, equipment design and construction, record keeping and all production controls specific to the processing of bottled water.

INSPECTIONS
As mentioned, Municipal Water is tested by a certified lab.

CRYSTAL GEYSER ® ALPINE SPRING WATER ™ is subject to inspection by the state, and as with any food establishment, is subject to unannounced plant inspections. Some states perform annual inspections.

Some states perform annual inspections. A significant responsibility of the state is the inspection, analysis and approval of water sources. Under the federal GMPs (Good Manufacturing Practices), only approved sources of water can supply a bottling plant.

LABEL INFORMATION
Municipal water has no label.

CRYSTAL GEYSER ® ALPINE SPRING WATER ™, like all other foods regulated by the FDA (US Food and Drug Administration), must be processed, packaged, shipped and stored in a safe and sanitary manner and truthfully and accurately labeled.

SOURCES
The sources of Municipal Water are often unknown.





CRYSTAL GEYSER ® ALPINE SPRING WATER ™ is bottled right at the source of the natural spring. These sources are found at landmark locations at Mount Shasta and at Olancha Peak in California; in the mountains of the Cherokee National Forest in Tennessee; and Moultonborough, New Hampshire. Bottling plants located at the source, eliminate the potential for contamination.

PURITY
Factors that contribute to possible contamination of Municipal Water include faulty piping, toxic dumping, pesticides and other unnatural occurances. In addition, Municipal Water is heavily chlorinated.

CRYSTAL GEYSER ® ALPINE SPRING WATER ™ bottling facilities are among the most sophisticated in the world, designed to ensure that no microbiological, chemical or physical changes occur in our spring water during bottling. Our 0.1 micron absolute filtration technology removes 100% of all particles 10 times smaller than the 1 micron industry standard, further ensuring the purity of our product. And CRYSTAL GEYSER ® ALPINE SPRING WATER ™ contains no chlorine.

The source of our pure spring water is located at one of our protected springs; Mt. Shasta and Olancha Peak in California, The Cherokee National Forest of Tennessee and Moultonborough, New Hampshire. CRYSTAL GEYSER ® ALPINE SPRING WATER ™ guarantees you freshness, purity and taste.

To our knowledge, CRYSTAL GEYSER ® ALPINE SPRING WATER ™ is the first U.S. spring water officially permitted in the European Union. That is because it must come from a protected spring; it must be free from all chemical and microbiological pollution; and it must be healthy to drink before any processing. Finally, it must be bottled at the source, and not trucked out in bulk tankers. We exceed these standards, and that is your guarantee of freshness, purity and taste.

CRYSTAL GEYSER ® ALPINE SPRING WATER ™ means quality control.


We carefully select protected water sources.
We bottle at the source: water is drawn directly from the spring and bottled.
We produce our own proprietary PET bottles on-site to further control the quality of our product.


Our bottles also have unique safety caps and seals. The cap's flange underneath prevents air from entering the bottle or water from leaking out of the bottle.
We use a double disinfection system: ozonation and 0.1 micron filtration. Only one is required!
We meet the stringent European Union standards. CRYSTAL GEYSER ® ALPINE SPRING WATER ™ is the only American brand authorized to sell in France.
We also meet the Japanese bottled water standards and export to Japan.

anyway, i thought it was interesting, maybe someone else might think so too.
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  #44   ^
Old Sat, Feb-11-06, 12:29
Lisa N's Avatar
Lisa N Lisa N is offline
Posts: 12,028
 
Plan: Bernstein Diabetes Soluti
Stats: 260/-/145 Female 5' 3"
BF:
Progress: 63%
Location: Michigan
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Quote:
I know everyone tries to assuages their guilt with recycling but you shouldn't imagine that it restores or replaces the needless waste of resources. Sometimes it takes more energy to recycle something than it does to create a brand new one.


Who says they're only making new bottles from the old ones? Recycled plastics have many applications. In fact, the demand for used plastics currently exceeds the supply.

http://www.ctmetal.com/plastic.htm
http://www.plasticsresource.com/s_p...DID=260&CID=155

Quote:
What will happen when China, India, and Africa begin to do the same?


From your original article, it appears they already are:

Quote:
The study said that demand for bottled water soared in developing countries between 1999 and 2004 with consumption tripling in India and more than doubling in China during that period.


Add to that the fact that some people would prefer to not drink fluoride all day. http://www.dartmouth.edu/~rmasters/AHABS/

It's a shame that only 14% of plastics are recycled today and IMO it would be far more effective to get involved in raising awareness for the need to recycyle rather than send plastics and metals to the landfill than it is to try and make people feel guilty for using products that come packaged in plastics in the first place.
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  #45   ^
Old Sat, Feb-11-06, 12:38
tunkany tunkany is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 202
 
Plan: Atkins-SCD
Stats: 125/99.5/110 Female 5 feet 2 inches
BF:
Progress: 170%
Location: Virginia
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Once I read an article on AOL, I think, that did a research on the different brands of bottled water. Most of them came from municipal water. Some of them came from springs but had bacteria in it. There were only a few brands that tested clean, one of which was Deer Park, I don't remember the others. But I remember the one Coca Cola makes, I think Aquafina, I'm not sure, is just tap water too.
Anyway. Here around Washington DC there is always a lead problem in tap water as the pipes are old and corroded. Every year it's on the news. So I don't really trust tap water. besides, it tastes horrible, I think they put too much chlorine in it. I'm also concerned about fluoride (which can be toxic if you have too much), and parazites.
I'm lucky to have a filter in my refrigerator. Before we got it I used to buy Deer Park in the gallon containers. We still buy the half-liter bottles when we go to the park, travel, etc. for convenience's sake. Better than soda (both the drink and the can)
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