??? Vegans don't eat tuna or fish. That is why we were wondering how you plan to get enough protein.

The thing is, once you start eating lots of salads - which is great, you still need to address your macronutrients and calories. If you don't get enough protein, you'll probably be ok for awhile, but eventually start seeing deterioration of things like hair, skin, muscles. If you're still wanting to keep the carbs down, what else are you going to eat? Plant foods are not enough calories or protein, even though you can always add enough fat through oils etc.

Anyway i think the tuna idea is good, but is it going to be enough for you?

If you are vigilant about balanced nutrition, you can thrive on a raw vegan diet. No eggs, no tuna, no cheese. Raw. Vegan. However, if you are cutting out a whole group of food, especially nuts which are essential in a raw vegan diet, you will run into trouble. BUT, there are tons of ways to eat raw foods besides plain. Check around in your area for a class on preparing raw foods. With a food processor, a dehydrator and a little creativity, you can create wonderful food that tastes great and provides all of your nutritional needs without cooked or animal products. Maybe you don't like nuts, but you find that you love almond pate.

One of my good friends (and an excellent raw chef) backpacked the Continental Divide Trail (that's Canada to Mexico) last year on 100% raw foods, often walking 25-30 miles a day. You can read about it here: www.rawhike.com. Folks who have never had experience with raw foodists will tend to think that you can't get all your nutrition from raw foods and that is simply not true. But you have to think outside the box and commit time and effort to it. Check Doug's site for recipes. He makes awesome Nori rolls and raw pizza. I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but raise your hand if you think you can walk 30 miles per day every day for 5 months through the mountains and snow on 20 carbs a day. I don't think so.

I understand that this is a board for dedicated meat-eaters, but please try to accept that there are other completely valid ways of living out there. Just because they don't work for you doesn't mean they won't work for someone else.

The last thing I would say about raw veganism is this: it can be extremely socially isolating if you don't live someplace like California, Boulder CO, or Maui (which all have large concentrations of raw foodists). You won't be eating out at restaurants and you won't have a significant support system of other folks who eat the way you do.

I bet it was done quite often before we had boxed cereal and the means to transport fruit in winter.

If people are vegan because of their spiritual beliefs, that's cool, but let's face it - veganism rode the undeserved fat-phobia wave, and there's this vague idea out there that animal products = unhealthy, and the less you eat, the healthier you'll be. That's where you'll find all the debate on this forum.

I disagree on both these points. Before we "had boxed cereal", I'm quite certain that no one was counting carbs, just eating anything and everything that was possible to eat and certainly going over 20 (or 50 or 80 or 100) grams of carbs per day as often as possible. A proper vegan (and specifically raw vegan) diet includes copious amounts of nuts, seeds, oils (usually olive and flax), olives and avocados, all of which are high in fat. You can make the argument that there are people who say they are vegan who eat nothing but vegan cookies, just as there are people "doing Atkins" who eat no vegetables but these people aren't following their chosen diets the way they are prescribed.

Greenbean,

Read any of the books by explorer Vilhjalmur Stefansson and you will appreciate that carbs are not needed in the diet of those who are extreemly physically active.

BTW, My hand is up.

Okay, color me confused. If you are so pro vegetarianism, why are you doing Atkins? And why are you on a dedicated meat eating forum? There is a forum on here for vegetarians, so obviously we accept that it works for other people. As long as you accept that it doesn't work as well for some, what's the problem? And I HAVE tried it. It didn't work well for me. I guess I have too much American Indian left over..

Edited to add: This was for greenbean. And please note, I did suggest the poster check out the vegetarian forum.

That's a pretty bigoted thing to say, especially when there is no scientific basis for it. And then you follow it up with this:Why don't you try practicing some of that acceptance that you are preaching?

Wyv

I'm sure it's possible to switch from Atkins to a raw vegan diet, but that's an enormous change so I would expect your body to take a while to adjust to that. You might want to come up with a plan for moving from one plan to the other; you can start eating more of your veggies raw every week, for example.

I recommend that you read over on the site BeyondVeg.com which is written by vegetarians, vegans, raw foodists, etc. They discuss some of the idealism that raw foodists can get caught up in, for example. Lots of good reading over there.

Hey Alie,

I just thought I'd give you a little info. There is a site that I use when I am juice fasting for support, but it has a lot of raw foodists and vegan forums as well. I hope we didn't scare you off. Most people here have chosen this as their way of life...acceptable, but not the only thing works. I loved raw food, I felt great, but I only did it when coming off my fasts...only thing was that I knew I wouldn't be able to maintain it. I was too hungry, plus Family etc.. the kiddies won't appreciate raw pizza etc. and I couldn't get around the idea that nothing could be cooked Anywho here are the sites:

http://www.curezone.com/
http://www.living-foods.com/recipes/

Good Luck Alie, and try it out, if it isn't for you feel free to come back, there is no shame in that.

Take Care
Leanna

Very early on I was ignorant about this way of eating. I by default assumed fat was bad for you, and, was considering switching to a moderate, calorie controlled, low fat diet after loss.

Now I realize how stupid that notion is. Fact is weight maintenance is barely different from weight loss from a physiological standpoint at least. The difference is like a little bit extra calories. If something is appropriate to support maintenance of a dieted, low weight, then technically that thing should also be appropriate to modify slightly so as to cause weight loss. If it is not, then odds are it won't help you maintain your weight, either. It's illogical to assume once the weight is gone you can suddenly just keep it off really easy and eat a totally incongruent diet. I think most people would have so much more success maintaining weight if someone told them that weight maintenance is a hairs difference from weight loss. We say "I'll eat that in maintenance", as if maintenance is this big free zone. Maintenance is a little more leniant, yes, but if you cannot work something into your weight loss at all the odds are you won't be able to after the loss, either.

I'm not saying the raw vegan diet won't work for you. I suspect it won't if you are carbohydrate sensitive, but, perhaps you are not so sensitive to carbs that you need to eat low carb like me and others.
There's only one way to find out. Why don't you try losing on the raw vegan diet for a week or two (to give your body time to adapt). Look up some recipes and give it a go. Make sure your meals are balanced with adequate fat and proteins, too... don't make this into a cheat thing. The goal is to see if this diet ultimately agrees with you?
How do you feel? Are you starving all the time with that much fruit, or are you content? Do you feel energetic? This is your answer as to whether or not a raw vegan diet will work for you. If it does, I highly suggest using it to lose weight with. Weight loss is like "maintenance training" - doing something radically different from your intended maintenance program is setting yourself up to fail.

Just my opinions!
Good luck

Edit: I read your post again and it seems you have tried the raw vegan diet with success. Likely you aren't that carb sensitive, which is great for you since this also means you'll find it easier to maintain weight. Instead of totally abandoning your raw vegan diet in college, perhaps you could try to just modify it to make it more convenient. Like, get a minifridge and buy those bags of salad greens which are prepared, pre cut veggies. They're a bit more expensive but might be worth it. Use store salad dressing instead of wasting time to make your own. Ken's makes some very good and healthy low carbohydrate, reduced calorie ones I use, and they're always on sale to boot.
Nuts are a big time saver. I buy cans and cans of nuts, this fits in to a college lifestyle as well.
Perhaps you could modify it to include dairy and meat at least temporarily - this will help you get more balanced nutrition quickly. Canned fish like sardines and tuna are quick and convenient. Presliced cheeses also, cottage cheese + berries + nuts + artificial sweetener = yummy. All these things are quick, easy, and fairly compatable with the vegan diet (except for the dairy and meat but thats optional)

Minor point of contention, I do think higher physical activities are better supported by increasing carbs. This is a YMMV thing though, since, the amount of extra carbs you need is probably parallel to the extent of your sugar metabolism problems (as well as physical activity). Someone who has a racehorse metabolism might need a lot extra. Someone like myself needs just a teeny bit but is just fine with none. My sugar tolerance seems to increase dramatically when I walk like crazy and exercise, and, my performance (that is to say perception of energy and ability to perform the activity) also increases if I eat more carbs.

But other than that yea I totally agree. My problem with veganism is that it says fat is bad and animal products are unhealthy which I completely disagree with. If I avoided fat and animal products I would have a much more difficult time staying healthy.

Atkins without fat, is like a day without sunshine.

Actually, going from one type of diet to another, is sometimes where you see your best results. I have no doubt that someone starting veganism, might enjoy the experience and see positive results. Same for someone going from SAD to, say, Atkins. But what happens in the long run, when your system adapts and your body slowly becomes depleted of some things that are deficient, that is the proof of the pudding.

Didn't Native Americans eat pemmican as their road trip snack?

As for cooking versus raw, yes some raw foods are more nutritious. And it does depend on exactly how you cook a food. For example, canned green beans are probably not as nutritious as lightle steamed. But lightly steamed is probably nearly as nutritious as raw, maybe moreso. Cooking can render the indigestible, more digestible. Sometimes at the expense of loss of some percentage of the vitamins, and leaching of minerals. The question is, are you getting enough of these anyway in your total diet? Answer is, usually.

One more thing. Being a Vegan, is more a religion than a diet. I think you are talking about being a vegetarian and/or raw foodist. And if you're eschewing meat to save the planet, consider that much of the Earth is only suitable for grazing. Unless you are fond of grass, it is a wise use of resources to eat some meat.

Conversely, some things are made more available to the body through cooking such as licopenes (think tomatoes). Some foods (think cashews) are made edible only through cooking.




Yes, they did; mostly fat with a bit of dried meat and sometimes dried berries mixed in; very high energy food.

If you had to rely on what was available in nature, raw veganism wouldn't work very well in my neck of the woods nor would it in any part of the country that has seasons; during at least 6 months of the year, there is very little, if any, vegetation that is available to eat. It's only through long-distance shipping that raw foodist vegans/vegetarians are able to indulge their food preference whims; they wouldn't survive their first year otherwise.