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  #31   ^
Old Tue, Jan-24-06, 16:35
Lisa N's Avatar
Lisa N Lisa N is offline
Posts: 12,028
 
Plan: Bernstein Diabetes Soluti
Stats: 260/-/145 Female 5' 3"
BF:
Progress: 63%
Location: Michigan
Default re: ketosis

Generally you don't have to worry about it unless you are a type 1 diabetic and/or have very high blood sugars.

There is a very good overview of ketones and ketosis put together by our own Doreen T in the tips section here.
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  #32   ^
Old Tue, Jan-24-06, 16:42
Rheneas's Avatar
Rheneas Rheneas is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 304
 
Plan: Primal
Stats: 200/129/125 Female 163cm
BF:26
Progress: 95%
Location: Aberdeen
Default

First, your cells burn glucose, not carbs, so she's wrong right off the bat there. Second, the majority of the cells in the body function just fine on ketones instead of glucose

Glucose is the most basic form of carbohydrate so that part ofyour statement is actually inaccurate here. All carbohydrates break down into the simplest form which is glucose which is what the cells use for fuel, but you are quite right in that cells also function very well on ketones. It is like converting a car from petrol (carbs) to diesel (ketones) it runs more efficiently but if you put petrol back in it you are royally screwed.
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  #33   ^
Old Tue, Jan-24-06, 18:15
dawninHI's Avatar
dawninHI dawninHI is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 145
 
Plan: whole foods/low carbd
Stats: 240/220/159 Female 67
BF:35.1
Progress: 25%
Location: Hawaii
Default

What I dont understand is why everyone is in such a broo hahah about a low carb diet... it takes all the processed foods out, no white sugar, add whole foods.. its still that myth that we are all sitting around eating pounds of bacon. If the LCLS is followed correctly.. its healthy!!
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  #34   ^
Old Tue, Jan-24-06, 18:20
Lisa N's Avatar
Lisa N Lisa N is offline
Posts: 12,028
 
Plan: Bernstein Diabetes Soluti
Stats: 260/-/145 Female 5' 3"
BF:
Progress: 63%
Location: Michigan
Default

Quote:
Glucose is the most basic form of carbohydrate so that part ofyour statement is actually inaccurate here.


True enough, but to use your fuel analogy again, it's like saying your car needs x amount of petroleum product. Right...would that be gas, oil, propane or diesel? Regular or unleaded?
Some people seem to have this idea that the carbohydrates (all carbohydrates) we eat somehow go directly to the brain; do not pass go, do not collect $200.00 to be used as fuel.
Glucose is the specific monosaccharide my brain along with the rest of the cells in my body is looking for when no ketones are around; there are actually 4 monosaccharides; fructose, glucose, galactose and ribose. The only one that the cells of my body, brain included, can use as energy is glucose.
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  #35   ^
Old Tue, Jan-24-06, 19:19
Dodger's Avatar
Dodger Dodger is offline
Posts: 8,767
 
Plan: Paleoish/Keto
Stats: 225/167/175 Male 71.5 inches
BF:18%
Progress: 116%
Location: Longmont, Colorado
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rheneas
First, your cells burn glucose, not carbs, so she's wrong right off the bat there. Second, the majority of the cells in the body function just fine on ketones instead of glucose

Glucose is the most basic form of carbohydrate so that part ofyour statement is actually inaccurate here. All carbohydrates break down into the simplest form which is glucose which is what the cells use for fuel, but you are quite right in that cells also function very well on ketones. It is like converting a car from petrol (carbs) to diesel (ketones) it runs more efficiently but if you put petrol back in it you are royally screwed.
Fiber is a carbohydrate. Fiber is not burned in our cells because out bodies cannot digest fiber to convert it to glucose. I always try to use the term glucose when discussing metabolism because carbs are just too general a term. Trees are a carbohydrate, but we cannot use trees in out body for energy. Termites can.
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  #36   ^
Old Tue, Jan-24-06, 19:40
ProfGumby's Avatar
ProfGumby ProfGumby is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,927
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 361/285.0/240.0 Male 5'11"
BF:Shake Hands w/Beef
Progress: 63%
Location: In Da U.P. eh? Menominee
Default

Whenever you see this...
the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine "
You know it is PURE CRAP!

Also, they (the PCRM) aquired and released Dr Atkins information without the family's consent. This is really illegal with the privacy laws in place. The Heart attack as well as the claim, morbidly obese were all ficticious bullshit crafted by the PCRM goon squad!

These Physicians are law breakers liars and as unethical as Mount Everest is high!

As to dieticians, we could all become one with enough book learning and a quick test. Dieticians are not Physicians or even nurses. It is a course you study for and you get a certificate/registration, the same way I did to be a Certified Pool Operator....

I am not against dieticians mind you, one of my best friends in the world is a dietician, but we do not go there when we are working together etc... she knows better in that I will soundly shut her down and changer the topic, thus letting her know this is not open for discussion and debate. The fact that I am in ever increasing good healthand physical shape and becoming more so each day only reinforces this stand.

There are ways to politely remove the topic from discussion, without offending those you know and love. And, when the conversation is done, I am gonna eat the way I want anyway, so if they persist, they are waisting their own breath anyway....
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  #37   ^
Old Tue, Jan-24-06, 21:21
eepobee's Avatar
eepobee eepobee is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 365
 
Plan: lc
Stats: 00/00/00 Male 00
BF:
Progress: 106%
Location: NJ
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodger
Fiber is a carbohydrate. Fiber is not burned in our cells because out bodies cannot digest fiber to convert it to glucose. I always try to use the term glucose when discussing metabolism because carbs are just too general a term. Trees are a carbohydrate, but we cannot use trees in out body for energy. Termites can.

actually, there are a few types of dietary fiber. one of those, lignin, which gives plants there "woodiness", is not a carbohydrate. cellulose, hemicellulose, pectin, gums, and muclilages, on the other hand, are carbohydrates. termites can digest lignins.
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  #38   ^
Old Wed, Jan-25-06, 07:17
tie_guy's Avatar
tie_guy tie_guy is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 265
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 330/246/230 Male 6'2"
BF:
Progress: 84%
Location: Southern York County, PA
Default

I don't understand why peole think that we are going to die eating a diet that our ancestors probably ate as well. I mean we are the product of millions of years of evolution. You'd think that we would be able to survive on a range of different diets, after all humans have spread to every corner of the globe. It seems to me that the worst thing a diet could do to you is give you something like scurvy from not getting enough of some type of vitamin or it could slowly make you fat which could lead to other health problem. I mean we are skipping some type of food in favor of some other (completely natural) type of food. They act like we are all hooked on drugs or something.
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  #39   ^
Old Wed, Jan-25-06, 12:15
brpssm's Avatar
brpssm brpssm is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,590
 
Plan: was Atkins now PāNu
Stats: 292.5/195/160 Female 5'10"
BF:
Progress: 74%
Location: Canada
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Clark
Thankfully, I go to an M.D. who believes that the most dangerous things you can do to your body is to smoke, be heavy, and not exercise. When I last went low carb and was exercising regularly, I lowered my LDL, cholesterol and triglycerides, and raised HDL a lot. He asked how I did it, and when I told him, you know what his advice was?

"Do what works for you. Keep it up."

Jim, I think we have the same doctor
My doctor's exact quote was, "Keep doing what you are doing."
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  #40   ^
Old Thu, Jan-26-06, 07:45
bsheets's Avatar
bsheets bsheets is offline
Faux-foods=Doh!Foods
Posts: 3,254
 
Plan: Low Carb
Stats: 216/180/154 Female 168cm
BF:
Progress: 58%
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dawninHI
What I dont understand is why everyone is in such a broo hahah about a low carb diet... it takes all the processed foods out, no white sugar, add whole foods.. its still that myth that we are all sitting around eating pounds of bacon. If the LCLS is followed correctly.. its healthy!!

I agree 100%!! I wish there were somehow a magical way to at least open people's minds a bit more. They don't have to agree, but to at least look at the info on lc and not dismiss it before they even know what it is. And then make up their minds.

And thanks for the links on ketosis, guys

e
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  #41   ^
Old Thu, Jan-26-06, 08:15
Maru1952's Avatar
Maru1952 Maru1952 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 135
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 169/158.8/130 Female 65 inches
BF:
Progress: 26%
Location: Arkansas
Default

It's amazing to me the things people will convince themselves is true. One of my friends is a professional trainer/nutritionist who got her training from Cooper Clinic. Last time I was on lc and had lost 75 pounds she warned me how unhealthy my woe was. At the same time, she is an exer-holic and so anorexic it's painful to look at her. And SHE's the "professional!"

Then I look at dieticians at the hospital who tip the scales at 300. Who are they kidding?

I stick with lc, thank you. I feel great and I'm not starving myself to death.
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  #42   ^
Old Thu, Jan-26-06, 09:09
kyrasdad's Avatar
kyrasdad kyrasdad is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,060
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 338/253/210 Male 5'11"
BF:
Progress: 66%
Location: Broken Arrow, Oklahoma
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brpssm
Jim, I think we have the same doctor
My doctor's exact quote was, "Keep doing what you are doing."


None of my doctors have been anything but supportive of low carb for me. I think actual, working doctors are much more about the results and real world implications that nutrtionists or "trainers" are. I know there are some doctors still caught in the high carb, low fat dogma, especially those at AMA/ADA/AHA, who I think aren't really working doctors anymore, anyway.

Not saying you won't run into a doctor who's still indoctrinated, but as they see results from patients, they are more likely to be open to the reality of low carb's health benefits.
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  #43   ^
Old Thu, Jan-26-06, 12:53
ItsTheWooo's Avatar
ItsTheWooo ItsTheWooo is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 4,815
 
Plan: My Own
Stats: 280/118/117.5 Female 5ft 5.25 in
BF:
Progress: 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by willowmh
Well, if the dietician is right , then I am brain dead and don't know it yet!

We always tease the RD's ~ work about being " food Nazi's"


I have heard a number of docs at the hospital I work at actually RECOMMEND a low carb diet to some of their patients.

My family practice doc has a poster in his office ( I keep asking where he got it ) that shows the food pyramid and the caption " The Big Lie"

The diabetic educator my husband went to when he was first diagnosed asked what changes he had made. He told her I had put him on Low Carb and she said GREAT! The ADA diet is vastly overated!

There are some in the medical community who know the truth about Low Carb. Unfortunately, there are still too few of them.


Tessbook -- where are you in NW Iowa? I have family ~ Laurens!


IMO, most doctors are changing their minds pretty quickly.
Nutritionists and others, much more slowly.

Doctors have to continue their education, so, that's probably why. Plus, doctors as a group are very science-oriented (openminded/eager to understand). Whereas other medical practitioners are typically "brainwashed" in school and that's that; their openness to new information (lack of bias) is probably equal to the average non-medically trained person (that is to say, very low, and thus, difficult to persuade with new facts).
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  #44   ^
Old Thu, Jan-26-06, 13:06
ItsTheWooo's Avatar
ItsTheWooo ItsTheWooo is offline
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Posts: 4,815
 
Plan: My Own
Stats: 280/118/117.5 Female 5ft 5.25 in
BF:
Progress: 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodger
In looking to see if I could quickly find the 30 carb number, I came upon this interesting tidbit about high blood-sugar levels and the brain. Too much glucose is not good for the brain.


Not that high blood sugar is good, but the loss in intelligence is probably more a result of the energy-starvation from hypoinsulinemia in T1 diabetics (which has hyperglycemia as a symptom). That's why it's temporary when blood sugars rise briefly, but permanent once ketoacidosis onsets.

The temporary flux in blood sugar symbolizes a temporary energy deprived state, one that is not prolonged. As an approximation, it is probably parallel in severity to the energy-deprivation of more extreme hypoglycemia (although the mechanisms at work are very different).
As a hypoglycemic let me tell you that if you gave me any sort of test when I'm in a severe hypo, I am likely to misspell all my words and barely make sense (zombie-like speech). It literally feels like slipping out of consciousness, I lose the ability to make sense of my environment, I lose contact with the emotional connotation of things... it's like a waking death (I have moments where I am aware of what's happening, but also can't control it and feel as if I'm "drifting").

Once a T1 progresses to ketoacidosis, energy starvation has become severe, life threateningly severe. Keep in mind when I speak of "energy starvation" I'm not talking about not eating - the body still fuels itself quite well on its tissues when not eating. I mean energy starvation in the most basic cellular sense - the body cannot fuel itself due to some sort of metabolic disease which prevents synthesis of energy to sustain life (whether or not you eat food is a non-factor). When a condition like that (T1 diabetes) progresses to a point, then irreversible damage happens to the body, part of it neurological.

It's like, if you fall into coma or have a stroke (oxygen, thus, energy deprivation), you are also very likely to suffer some degree of brain damage as well. It's not really the stroke or the coma that causes brain damage, but the oxygen (energy) deprivation that results. I imagine it's the same thing with hyperglycemia (particularly T1s after ketoacidosis episodes which is a SEVERE state of emergancy...)
It seems to correlate with hyperglycemia mainly because hyperglycemia is a marker for energy starvation & metabolic diseases.
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  #45   ^
Old Thu, Jan-26-06, 13:13
ItsTheWooo's Avatar
ItsTheWooo ItsTheWooo is offline
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Posts: 4,815
 
Plan: My Own
Stats: 280/118/117.5 Female 5ft 5.25 in
BF:
Progress: 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ysabella
Hiya bsheets - mainly, ketosis is when you're producing ketones, but most of us pee them right on out. Ketoacidosis is when you don't pee them out and they build up in your body (page about ketoacidosis).


I thought that in normal metabolism the body maintains homeostasis with ketone levels preemptively by controlling lipolysis (storing excess dietary fat as body fat, or, refusing to convert more body fat into ketones).
If we peed out our ketones, this would break the body's ability to conserve energy and lead to starvation.
It could also lead to pH upset & mineral deficiencies (due to frequent urination and the fact that ketones are acidic and are to be neutralized with minerals to maintain pH... thus ketoacidosis).

The T1 diabetic can't control ketone levels and they accumulate because of their insulin deficiency. Metabolism of energy is an insulin dependent process; when insulin deficiency is that severe everything goes to hell and death is quick.
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