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  #46   ^
Old Sat, Feb-04-06, 18:13
ShayKNJ's Avatar
ShayKNJ ShayKNJ is offline
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I finally made my yogurt. It seems very thin. It has been in the refrigerator for 2 1/2 hours now. I am not sure if I heated up the milk to a high enough temperature and heated it long enough. I think the highest temperature was 160. You were talking about 185 degrees. I was afraid it was going to boil.

Next time I am going to use half and half and milk. I will try it tomorrow when it is cold enough.
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  #47   ^
Old Sat, Feb-04-06, 19:10
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Rosebud Rosebud is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShayKNJ
I finally made my yogurt. It seems very thin. It has been in the refrigerator for 2 1/2 hours now. I am not sure if I heated up the milk to a high enough temperature and heated it long enough. I think the highest temperature was 160. You were talking about 185 degrees. I was afraid it was going to boil.

Next time I am going to use half and half and milk. I will try it tomorrow when it is cold enough.

I haven't read all the posts in this thread, so i apologize if I am repeating what has been said before. But as I eat homemade yoghurt every day, and make it about every 10 days or so, I feel somewhat qualified to comment.

The initial heating serves only to pasteurize the milk. It has no effect whatsoever on the ultimate result.

What does matter, is the temperature of the milk when you add the starter. It needs to be between 37 and 43ºC, or 99 to 110ºF. The yoghurt also needs to be kept within that range during the culturing process. I have quite successfully made yoghurt from pasteurized milk without heating it past 40ºC.
Once my yoghurt is made, I put it straight into the fridge and don't touch it again for at least 8 hours.

If you find that your yoghurt has not set properly, it will be either because your temperatures are not being maintained during the process, or it could be because you are not using sufficient starter. But as it has only been a couple of hours yet, I'd just wait and see for now.

And of course, if you want really thick yoghurt, straining it makes a wonderful Greek style product. I usually strain 1 serve at a time by putting it into a coffee filter sitting in a funnel in a coffee mug.

HTH

Rosebud
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  #48   ^
Old Sat, Feb-04-06, 19:17
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Rosebud Rosebud is offline
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Just read the first couple of posts, and I have to add that for people like me who have no access to low carb milk, powdered milk works just fine. I use a combination of powdered milk and cream, in a ratio of about 3 milk: 1 cream.
I have used just the (powdered) milk several times, and it makes perfect yoghurt, but I prefer the slightly creamier texture of the added cream.

Rosebud
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  #49   ^
Old Sat, Feb-04-06, 19:38
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Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
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It might be the temperature. Everything I have read says 185F.

Did you let it cool before adding the culture?
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  #50   ^
Old Sat, Feb-04-06, 19:53
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Rosebud Rosebud is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy LC
It might be the temperature. Everything I have read says 185F.

Did you let it cool before adding the culture?

Nancy, if you read what I just wrote, you'll see that heating it to 185 is wholely and solely to pasteurize the milk. The crucial part is keeping it between 99 and 110ºF from when you add the starter.

Rosebud
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  #51   ^
Old Sat, Feb-04-06, 20:51
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Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosebud
Nancy, if you read what I just wrote, you'll see that heating it to 185 is wholely and solely to pasteurize the milk. The crucial part is keeping it between 99 and 110ºF from when you add the starter.

Rosebud


Actually according to the electron microscope article guy it also serves to put nubs on the casein proteins so it'll hold together better. Its back a bit in the thread. It is a fascinating read!

Oh here it is: http://www.medicinalfoodnews.com/vol01/issue5/kalab.htm
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  #52   ^
Old Sat, Feb-04-06, 22:02
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IslandGirl IslandGirl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosebud
Just read the first couple of posts, and I have to add that for people like me who have no access to low carb milk, powdered milk works just fine. I use a combination of powdered milk and cream, in a ratio of about 3 milk: 1 cream.
I have used just the (powdered) milk several times, and it makes perfect yoghurt, but I prefer the slightly creamier texture of the added cream.

Rosebud


I'm curious, Rosebud, as to why you would use powdered milk, which I understand to be quite high-lactose (which is why it is traditionally avoided by most low carbers).

There've been a lot of discussions about yogurt making over the years in this forum, some in this Kitchen forum and much of it in the Nutrition forum, and usually the addition of 'modified milk ingredients' or powdered milk in either home or commercial yogurt, while serving to generally increase the thickness, also adds unwanted carbs and changes the 'mouthfeel' (for yogurt purists, anyway).

From MasterCook: Powdered Milk
128g total weight/1 Cup by volume
635 Cals
49g Total Carbs (0g fiber)
34g Protein
34g Fat

Last edited by IslandGirl : Sat, Feb-04-06 at 22:19.
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  #53   ^
Old Sat, Feb-04-06, 22:39
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Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
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I bet she ferments for 24 hours and it eats up all the lactose.

One of my coconut/fruit ferments I let go for 24 hours and there was no sweetness left from the ripe mangos. In fact, it no longer even tasted like mango.
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  #54   ^
Old Sat, Feb-04-06, 23:14
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Rosebud Rosebud is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy LC
Actually according to the electron microscope article guy it also serves to put nubs on the casein proteins so it'll hold together better. Its back a bit in the thread. It is a fascinating read!

Oh here it is: http://www.medicinalfoodnews.com/vol01/issue5/kalab.htm

That is fascinating, Nancy. But I have to assume that in practical terms the effect is minimal, because I have very successfully made perfectly set yoghurt after only heating it to 40ºC.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IslandGirl
I'm curious, Rosebud, as to why you would use powdered milk, which I understand to be quite high-lactose (which is why it is traditionally avoided by most low carbers).

Basically, Nancy is right. I follow the SCD rules for yoghurt making, which means I culture it for 24 hours. I don't add the powdered milk to anything but water, and only enough to make it into the equivalent of full cream milk. And the reason is purely dollars and cents. Powdered milk is much cheaper than bottled.
I make 2 cups of the powder up with 6 cups of water, then I add 600mL cream. And I just love the result. And so does my tummy, which for me is the whole idea.

Roz
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  #55   ^
Old Sat, Feb-04-06, 23:17
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Rosebud Rosebud is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IslandGirl
From MasterCook: Powdered Milk
128g total weight/1 Cup by volume
635 Cals
49g Total Carbs (0g fiber)
34g Protein
34g Fat

I only just noticed this, Judi. I think you'll find that this refers to the actual powder, so yes, of course it has more carbs than liquid milk. As I said, I simply make my powdered milk up to match full cream milk in strength, and from the label, there is no difference from ordinary milk.

Roz
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  #56   ^
Old Sun, Feb-05-06, 08:19
featherz featherz is offline
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I make yogurt from powdered milk all the time using tap water heat - so far no problems and it's nice and thick. My tap water is a bit hotter than the 'starter' level on my thermometer so I mix the tap in with the appropriate amount of dry milk, let cool to starter level, add starter, put in yogurt maker for about 10 hours. Much easier than heating up milk and the dry milk saves room in my fridge since I make so much. :P
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  #57   ^
Old Sun, Feb-05-06, 11:43
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosebud
That is fascinating, Nancy. But I have to assume that in practical terms the effect is minimal, because I have very successfully made perfectly set yoghurt after only heating it to 40ºC.

Basically, Nancy is right. I follow the SCD rules for yoghurt making, which means I culture it for 24 hours. I don't add the powdered milk to anything but water, and only enough to make it into the equivalent of full cream milk. And the reason is purely dollars and cents. Powdered milk is much cheaper than bottled.
I make 2 cups of the powder up with 6 cups of water, then I add 600mL cream. And I just love the result. And so does my tummy, which for me is the whole idea.

Roz
But you use dry milk, right? I have no idea, but perhaps the process of drying milk also puts those nubs on too? I wish I had an electron microscope! I'd be playing with it all day. I've also had the problem with regular milk (no dried added) not getting thick. Temperatures seem just fine. It gets quite tart so that indicates lots of lactic acid but it just doesn't set up well. There's also a brand of yogurt at TJ's that doesn't set up well. It's quite runny. It just has to be a processing issue.

I wish I could make some but since I can't seem to digest it, I'd better not. After 6 months of SCD, I'll get the milk products another try.
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  #58   ^
Old Sun, Feb-05-06, 23:36
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IslandGirl IslandGirl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy LC
...perhaps the process of drying milk also puts those nubs on too? ... It just has to be a processing issue.


How Is Powdered Milk Made?

"...In a creamery, the milk is ran [sic] through small tubes where it’s heated up to the desired temperature of 175 degrees F for just 20 seconds ...[pasteurization]

Turning The Condensed Milk Into Milk Powder: Two types of drying are the spray nozzle and the newer atomization system. There are still many spray dryers in operation today...that spray a fine mist of condensed milk into 400 degree F swirling air. As the milk droplets fall, the swirling air quickly removes the water out of the droplets of milk until all that’s left is a small particle of milk powder not much larger than a speck of dust. As it falls, the air cools to about 250 degrees F until it settles ...
"

Hmmmmmm.

Last edited by IslandGirl : Sun, Feb-05-06 at 23:47.
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  #59   ^
Old Sun, Feb-05-06, 23:42
IslandGirl's Avatar
IslandGirl IslandGirl is offline
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Plan: Atkins,PP - wgt in %
Stats: 100/96.8/69 Female 5'6.5"
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Progress: 10%
Location: Vancouver Island, BC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosebud:
I think you'll find that this refers to the actual powder, so yes, of course it has more carbs than liquid milk. [img]images/smilies/spineyes.gif[/img] As I said, I simply make my powdered milk up to match full cream milk in strength, and from the label, there is no difference from ordinary milk.


Yes, indeed, I was referring to actual Powdered Milk as titled and by volume, not the reconstituted end product. And I was thinking of both the commercial processes and/or starter package instructions of addition of Powdered Milk to a base of liquid milk or cream, as a thickener and stabilizer it seems. Something generally avoided by low carbers ("double" milking, that is).

Hence my curiosity as to your use of Powdered Milk at all, though you were already clear on using water as a base rather than a liquid milk product.

I, too, no longer have access to any "low carb" milk, which is actually based on a UF (Ultra Filtered) milk, by the way, for those who didn't know this.
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  #60   ^
Old Mon, Feb-06-06, 00:05
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Rosebud Rosebud is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy LC
But you use dry milk, right? I have no idea, but perhaps the process of drying milk also puts those nubs on too? I wish I had an electron microscope! I'd be playing with it all day. I've also had the problem with regular milk (no dried added) not getting thick. Temperatures seem just fine. It gets quite tart so that indicates lots of lactic acid but it just doesn't set up well. There's also a brand of yogurt at TJ's that doesn't set up well. It's quite runny. It just has to be a processing issue.

I wish I could make some but since I can't seem to digest it, I'd better not. After 6 months of SCD, I'll get the milk products another try.

I think you are being very wise to wait for a while before trying milk products, Nancy. You are certainly unlucky not being able to tolerate casein.

Back to the yoghurt thickening saga. I always heat the powdered milk to 80º before letting it cool to about 40, just to pasteurize it. It's when I use bottled, already pasteurized milk that I don't bother to heat it to 80º. And it thickens just fine.

Which makes me wonder if your problem thickening was the starter you were using. I guess we can come back to it in 6 months or so when/if you try again.

Cheers,

Roz
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