Hello,

Yet another anecdotal report of the dangers I'm bringing on by eating LC. An acquaintance told me her Dad "did Atkins" and lost 65lbs getting to his goal weight. However, she said that eating so much protein changed his body to an acid pH causing tooth decay among other things. Has anyone heard of this? I couldn't find anything about it with a search and really didn't know what to say. All I could say is, "Hmmm...I've never heard of that...interesting."

The acid/alkaline food theory is bunk. Nothing escapes the "acid soup" of our stomachs. Taking an entire bottle of TUMS will only change the acidity in your body briefly. If your kidneys function properly, there should be no issue whatsoever. Our bodies maintain pH in a very narrow range as large variances can kill you.

Vegans use the acid/alkaline theroy in an attempt to validate their way of eating and shun meat eating.

Maybe he had kidney problems, and developed mild ketoacidosis. It doesn't happen in healthy people though.

Not heard of the acid thing but i have noticed that my teeth get coated with plaque quicker.

I bought some of that Plax that you swish around your mouth before brushing. It works great.

Maybe he didn't brush his teeth or he had underlying problems as suggested by the other replies. He may of been on medication that affected his teeth.

There was a thread on here not so long ago that mentioned that after a day of doing Atkins, a girl was getting pins and needles in her hands. No diet could have that effect in a day! She obviously had a problem that needed looking at by a doctor. She will probably tell people for the rest of her life that she tried Atkins and got pins and needles in her hands!

Read this article. The body can't vary its acidity without dying.

Acidosis and Alkalosis:

Acidosis is excessive blood acidity caused by an overabundance of acid in the blood or a loss of bicarbonate from the blood (metabolic acidosis), or by a buildup of carbon dioxide in the blood that results from poor lung function or slow breathing (respiratory alkalosis).
Metabolic acidosis develops when the amount of acid in the body is increased through ingestion of a substance that is, or can be metabolized to, an acid—such as wood alcohol (methanol), antifreeze (ethylene glycol), or large doses of aspirin.
Metabolic acidosis can also occur as a result of abnormal metabolism. The body produces excess acid in the advanced stages of shock and in poorly controlled type 1 diabetes mellitus.Even the production of normal amounts of acid may lead to acidosis when the kidneys are not functioning normally and are therefore not able to excrete sufficient amounts of acid in the urine.
http://www.merck.com/mmhe/sec12/ch159/ch159b.html

Alkalosis is excessive blood alkalinity caused by an overabundance of bicarbonate in the blood or a loss of acid from the blood (metabolic alkalosis), or by a low level of carbon dioxide in the blood that results from rapid or deep breathing (respiratory alkalosis).
Metabolic alkalosis develops when the body loses too much acid or gains too much base. For example, stomach acid is lost during periods of prolonged vomiting or when stomach acids are suctioned with a stomach tube (as is sometimes done in hospitals). In rare cases, metabolic alkalosis develops in a person who has ingested too much base from substances such as baking soda (bicarbonate of soda). In addition, metabolic alkalosis can develop when excessive loss of sodium or potassium affects the kidneys' ability to control the blood's acid-base balance. For instance, loss of potassium sufficient to cause metabolic alkalosis may result from the use of diuretics or corticosteroids.
Respiratory alkalosis develops when rapid, deep breathing (hyperventilation) causes too much carbon dioxide to be expelled from the bloodstream. The most common cause of hyperventilation, and thus respiratory alkalosis, is anxiety. Other causes of hyperventilation and consequent respiratory alkalosis include pain, cirrhosis, low levels of oxygen in the blood, fever, and aspirin
overdose (which can also cause metabolic acidosis).
http://www.merck.com/mmhe/sec12/ch159/ch159c.html

Acidosis can occur if the kidneys are damaged, but in normal healthy individuals, intake of protein is not dangerous. The biggest "danger" of too much protein intake it that it could be stored as fat!

Here's another link. No one knows who is right. LOL Maybe none of them are.
It's nonsense

I have to disagree with several of the comments here. Our blood pH is changing all the time.



Being prone to kidney stones since I was a kid, I have my blood PH monitored and measured twice a year and I check my urine at least monthly and more often if I feel discomfort that could be caused by a moving kidney stone. Calcium-Oxalate stones are formed from “Bone Detritus” (small pieces of bone which break off/dissolve from our bones. It happens to everyone, much more as we age, if we do not eat in such a way to balance out that PH.

What foods cause lower PH (higher acidity)?
Carbonated Drinks, Excess Protein, Cereals, Sugars, Tobacco, Coffee, Tea, and Alcohol, and in general, most processed foods.
As we digress from “Whole Foods” in the form of natural vegetables our blood becomes more acidic. In essence we are similar to a battery and we determine the electrolyte composition by what we put in it.

As blood changes to more acidic, bone becomes more vulnerable to leaching of the calcium in it. Although I have never related it to tooth enamel, it makes sense that a lower ph from ingested foods would affect saliva since urine shows up more acidic quite quickly after consuming soft drinks with fizz (phosphoric acid). The blood follows more slowly.

I am not condoning any of the hype around Metabolic Typing Diets although there seems to be some science to it. At first impression, The Atkins diet definitely lowers pH, (more acidic). I know that eating meat protein with little else lowers pH since I can measure it with a Chem-Stik, later in the day or the next morning. Protein will be up, pH down and little else changes.
An easy and natural way to keep a balanced PH is with more leafy greens and wise carb choices in how we meet our ECC throughout the day. Spinach, Chard, and so on raise pH quickly. Drinking adequate water helps as well and serves to promote better health and definitely reduces the acidity of mouth saliva immediately.
One thing I found surprising was that the food pH itself is quite different from the pH affect is has on the body. Citrus fruits which are acidic, do not raise pH, but instead lower it after being digested.

If you check out the effects of lower pH at http://www.trans4mind.com/nutrition/pH.html you find that, Yes: several conditions such as Tooth Decay, Kidney Stones, susceptibility to infection and so on, are related to blood pH.


Does this mean that LC/Higher Protein diets are to be discouraged?
Definitely not! Staying closer to whole foods, choosing LC fruits and veggies to fill your carb limit will do more than keep your pH where it should be. It rounds out most programs with essential nutrients in many positive ways.

Ottawa,

Urine PH can certainly change, but blood PH is tightly controlled by the body. From the article that you cited "The blood pH has to be kept within a tight range of with a normal range of 7.36 to 7.44"

The site trans4mind.com is not a medical site and one whos's medical advice I would be leary of. It is an irritating site in that I keep getting a popup type box urging me to sign-up for their services. The box is hard to close.

That was the only online link that I could easily find, but both my Endocronologist and Renal specialist agree with it. I have a better link at work I'll try to pick up Monday.

As for "From the article that you cited "The blood pH has to be kept within a tight range of with a normal range of 7.36 to 7.44", my range moves out of this range often in the summer when holiday meals, dehydration and other factors can lead to lower pH.

I know that my condition of recurring kidney stones is not that common but even vets have been treating sheep with calcium suppliments for over 100 years. It raises pH (lowers acidity) and strengthens bone material to reduce bone detritis.

The medical community only caught up to the vetrinarians on this a few years ago. Most males carry kidney stones but they never leave the kidney.
The most common stone is the Calcium Oxilate stone and it is composed of broken down bone material, related directly to pH level.

BTW: I do not endorse any of these pH Diet Programs but it is easy to incorporate, and actually is ideal for a program like Protein Power since it encourages a wide variety of LC choices in fruits and veggies which are all alkiline foods. Most of the links providing this information are like the one above pushing a specific plan, but most internists that I have met place a high merit on blood pH.

Again most of the links you find on this are Specific diet related http://www.thewolfeclinic.com/acidalkfoods.html, but it is being used much more often in cancer treatment as well and in no way detracts from most low carb programs.

Hi Ottawa!


I'm a little confused, so I just have a question..

If I'm drinking adequate water (more than 72 oz. a day), eating green veg., such as spinach and brocolli, but I eat 1 orange a day and add fresh lemon juice to all my water (it's not too sour, just for flavor), am I consuming too much acid?

I've been thinking about just this subject. Thanks!

pH level of urine, yes, but not of blood. Your urinary tract and your cardiovascular system are distinct from one another and while the pH of urine can vary widely from 4.6 to 8.0, Mike is correct in that the pH of your blood is tightly controlled by the body between 7.35 and 7.45 and if it goes outside those bounds, you would quickly be quite aware that something was very much amiss.
Acidosis or Alkalosis are serious conditions and symptoms of either can be felt quite quickly when the boundaries of normal are crossed.
http://chemistry.boisestate.edu/rba.../acid_base5.htm
http://www.merck.com/mmhe/sec12/ch159/ch159a.html

Like Mike, I'm suspicious of sites that make all types of health claims without any sort of references to where that information came from (like studies, for instance ). I'm a bit skeptical of claims that we should eat foods that are alkaline or acid to change or correct body pH or avoid 'stressing the blood pH buffers'. That's a little like saying we should avoid excercising because it stresses the heart.

Most likely her dad heard this from a "naturopath" or some other self-titled practitioner of superstitious delusions. Those quacks seem real big on vegan diets to "make the body more alkaline", and other garbage psuedo-science practices.

In reality the body maintains its pH level in a very narrow range at all times. Failure to maintain this state of homeostasis will result in swift decline in health, or even death. It will only happen as part of some serious disease or extreme environmental deprivation. This will never happen under normal conditions. BTW, eating eggs without toast, salads without croutons and tacos without shells classify as "normal conditions" . Toast, cakes, taco shells etc is not "an essential environmental need" .

Actually, restricting foods suddenly and extremely (total or carbohydrate specifically) can cause a massive diuretic effect in the body. This causes the "induction woosh" of 8+ pounds some people get.

For most people they'll experience mild discomfort, but some who are sensitive to hypotension and problems regulating minerals in the body... it can cause more extreme issues. When you lose water, you lose minerals and electrolytes. Your cardiovascular system depends on these to maintain consistent normal rythm. If this system is disrupted due to diet-induced electrolyte imbalance, it is very realistic that one would experience pins and needles sensations, and numbness in extremities, and/or dizziness/blackness when rising suddenly. It could even cause a heart attack (but this is very very rare).

It's not an atkins-specific thing. Well to a certain extent it is, since low carb makes it more difficult for the body to regulate and retain minerals (which is an insulin-dependent process... which is the reason hyperinsulinemia is notoriously associated with hypertension and bloating by the way). But a healthy person with no extraneous diseases/hormone deficiencies should be able to regulate electrolytes and minerals just fine in the context of a carbohydrate restricted diet.

On these forums, it's related mostly to under eating or eating a dramatically new diet (starting induction) or eating a really unbalanced diet (read: getting your carbs from splenda / maltitol and not the good foods loaded with potassium and other minerals). Most of us on this forum who experience it are both not eating enough (because we are losing weight) and not eating ideally balanced diet (I don't know about you but a lot of my carbs, when eating very carb restricted, weren't coming from carrots and lettuce and greens ). I never ever have those problems anymore now that I eat more and eat more carbs.

My doctor who is a well respected internist in our community as well as a naturopath would take exception to your description of naturopaths. Although he is a vegetarian himself, he told me in no way should I try to be one and recommended a lc diet for me.

I have a friend who is very acidic, the saliva test strip indicated a ph of 6.0, and was put on an alkaline diet by her doctor. She will be going back shortly but in the meantime the swelling in her hands and arms have disappered, she can walk up steps unaided, her pain has almost disappeared, and she feels better all the way around. Can't argue with success.