You know, when I'm really honest with myself and ask if I could kill something for food...I come up a blank. Iv'e killed plenty of fish, but they are alien in a way, so it's easier.

The closer an animal gets to looking like us, the harder it is to kill. There's a certain prejudice that goes along with what's okay to kill and whats not that has absolutely no real value other than a kind of selfish skewed perspective...I guess it all comes down to how empty your belly is!

You really have to have been raised with it in your culture as a daily part of life. Something you really don't even think about twice. How would our ancestors view how truly out of touch we are? Who of them would be envious? Who of them would pity us?

Just a thought.

I've been following this thread since it started and have been wondering if I should jump in... and I guess what the heck, I might as well. I will preface this by saying I'm no vegan. I was, however, a lacto-ovum (eggs and dairy are fine) vegetarian for years. I never once tried to convince anyone else to "join the cult" of vegetarianism. I could care less how anyone else eats, ever. As for kids attempting to become vegetarians, its unlikely they'll do it right because their parents don't understand that they need the right supplements (just like a low-carber needs the right supplements, by the by), and mistakenly think that vegetarians eat only veggies. That's ridiculous. Myself, I became a vegetarian because I worked with corpses all day at school and by the time I'd get home, I couldn't face a plate of meat of any kind. And then, once I graduated school and thought I'd go back to eating meat, it had become too rich for my system. Even now, if I eat a steak of any size, I am within a very short period of time, in the bathroom cramping up like crazy. I can manage a bit of chicken and have it once in awhile. I also do eat the occasional piece of fish. But I wouldn't hesitate to go back to a mostly vegetarian lifestyle, and likely will, once I make it all the way up the carb ladder.

There are those who view vegetarians as waifish and unhealthy, when in fact, that's not how all of us are. When I was in the throes of pretty strict vegetarianism, I was a highly competitive martial artist, training four hours a day, six days a week. I continued on to become a competitive kickboxer and finally a boxer. I was cut better than most red-meat-eating men out there, and could take down a 200-pound guy without much effort. I guess my point is that the people you know of who are ever-loving-tree-hugging-PETA-vegans are a different breed of vegetarian. The weak and waifish vegans don't eat enough beans, legumes and grains... nor do they take their vitamins. If someone tries to "convert" you to their WOE, they're idiots. It's just like those morons who try to convert you to their religion. These are people who are so insecure in what their own beliefs are that they need to convince someone else to join them to feel like their lifestyle is okay. Cultists.

Not all vegetarians are cultists. I don't care that anyone eats meat. I agree that meat has always been food. But trying to convince a vegan to eat meat is no different than them trying to convince you not to...
d.

Point taken kidnj, your aversion to meat is extremely understandable, and I have known a couple people who seem to thrive on vegetarianism (lact/ovo), I also know a friend who is a vegan. Everytime I see him, he's eating something (he's constantly hungry) and he kind of lives on the fringes. His personality changed after he went vegan. He's trying to sell me on this book that we all evolved knuckling around eating plant stalks and tubers...I guess it's impossible to predict what kind of eating regimen someone is going to thrive on.

And I'm definitely not into converting ANYONE to my religion...I just expect people to pay me the same respect.

I thought I should reply to this comment. I did research this way of life before I allowed my daughter to try it. I talked to dietians, internet and friends who are vegans. AND MADE A SO CALL BALANCED DIET
But, the point that I was making is that this is not a diet for children to follow. There is also research that children should not follow this diet or a low fat diet. Children need to eat a diet that has fat and animal protien in it. (Plus veggies and fruit and grains) It helps with the needs of thier growning and developing bodies.
Now I need to go and attend to the roast beef that has been on the spits all day.

I couldn't agree more. My kids are both omnivores, as is my husband. Kids need saturated fat for their brains to develop correctly. I wouldn't deny my kids the foods they need to grow, by any stretch. However, if either of my girls did express an interest in vegetarianism, I'd educate her on what it takes to be successful at it... I'm almost finished with my education in nutrition and know a thing or two about it.
d.

I have several co-workers who call themselves vegetarians. Some eat eggs, cheese, dairy and seafood. Some eat cheese and dairy only. Some eat cheese only. I call these people selective vegetarians because they are still eating animal products and are saving themselves from becoming extremely ill by not being completely vegan. I humour them when they constantly remind me (when I'm ordering lunches for meetings) that they are vegetarians.

Those that eat dairy (btw, cheese IS dairy) are considered vegetarians because you don't kill the cow to get the milk... there is also such a thing as a lacto-ovum vegetarian (dairy and eggs), and then there's the one that you mention -- the kind that eat fish too. In truth, you're right, they're not vegetarians. They're just not omnivores as they don't eat red meat, pork or poultry. Many people follow those guidelines however, for more religious reasons, rather than strictly for diet. And if you want to call them "selective vegetarians" then that's all well and good -- but unless you eat liver, tongue, tripe, haggas, etc., you're a selective omnivore. I guess the point I'm trying to make is this -- why does it matter to you what anyone else eats and what they call themselves? It just seems silly to me to care.
d.

Vegetarians and vegans are not the same thing. As kidnj pointed out vegetarians just don't eat meat, but vegans eshew all animal products including eggs and dairy.

I also don't try to convince anyone to eat the way I do, which is vegetarian. I don't care if other people eat meat or boiled grass or rocks. I also don't feel the need to justify my food choices, the same way other low carbers shouldn't have to justify what they eat to people who don't low carb. I am happy to explain my choice to people who ask out of curiosity, though.

Thought I'd add in my .02 - I don't eat meat because I don't like the taste or texture. I'm not vegan though - I eat dairy & eggs. I was born & raised in India where a large chunk of the population is vegetarian & really we are not all anemic weaklings. Beans, legumes, grains, vegetables & fruit are a part of the daily diet. Milk & yogurt are also huge. I have never taken any vitamins (except when pregnant) & my 18-mo son has yet to try any meat & his iron has been consistently great. He is not taking any vitamins either.
So.... it can be done right, but it can also be done wrong if all you eat are refined flours & sugars. As India "modernizes", they are not eating that well anymore & are developing obesity, diabetes & heart problems quite rapidly.
I do not agree with anyone trying to convert you into a believer either - that is ANNOYING.

I was ovo-lacto vegetarian for about 5 years. I was mostly concerned about the unnecessary cruelty in the meat industry-- that inhumane methods are used in order to save money-- but it was mostly for religious/spiritual reasons. I never pushed it on other people, though.

After some time, and after realizing that while some people can be healthy on vegetarian diets, it doesn't nourish me enough, I made my peace with the spiritual aspect of eating meat. I'm still uncomfortable with some aspects of the industry, though.

What is the reason for this thread, anyway? It seems as though the original poster is asking a question, then he/she answers it himself/herself? Why not start a bash-other-folks-for-their-personal-preferences thread too? Come on people, let's be constructive and helpful. Is anyone here forcing veg*nism on you? If so, bring it to the attention of the mods. If not, stop 'hating' on people with their own personal preferences. Jees.

We all have our own reasons for what and why we eat what we eat. We don't like others bashing Atkins, or whatever else we do. So, give it a rest.

Peace.

This *is* the war zone, where differences of opinion and lifestyle are regularly bashed with great gusto.

I don't "hate on" anyone for what they choose to eat, I just think vegan-ism is silly. But, I'm entitled to have that opinion, just as those who choose to eat that way are entitled to do so.

I will say that I have seen far more vegans try to convince meat-eaters of the righteousness of the vegan way of life, than vice versa, and therein (IMHO) lies the problem. There's something about veganism that seems to impart a sense of superiority to many people who practice that lifestyle, and I think that's what gets all up under the skin of the rest of us.

Eat whatcha want, but please don't come off at me as though I'm uneducated, impure and club baby seals for fun and profit because I enjoy a steak. If you do choose to assume an air of superiority as a result of your eating choices, please do not then add insult to injury by acting *surprised* when the reactions you get are less than cordial.

Actually this was moved to the war zone. The original post was in the vegetarian part of the forum.

I haven't seen a lot of superiority from the vegetarians or vegans on this forum. Please don't punish us for others attitudes.

I was a strict vegan for years, and was never healthy. I wasn't an animal right's activist, which made many vegan nazis shun me. I cannot stand "Vegan Nazis". Don't they realize that forcing their so called ethics on people aren't going to win anyone over? In my years as a vegan, I found many vegans to either be atheists, pagans, or agnostics. Veganism was their religion, so they were as passionate about it as I am about Jesus. Many of them also had eating disorders. They claimed to be vegan for ethical reasons, but I know they were vegans because it was a ticket to "Skinnyville."

I became a vegan for health reasons, and found out the hard way, that it just isn't possible to be a vegan and be healthy. Not for me anyway.

I just cannot stand for a vegan to tell me that I am a "Ruthless Killer" for eating meat. I actually had a vegan friend (well ex friend) of mine recently, ask me how I could eat a steak knowing I had the blood of an innocent cow on my hands. This girl had just had her third abortion. When I asked her how she felt about having the blood of three innocent children on her hands, she punched me!

I do have to say, that as a vegan, I was made aware of the evils of factory farming. It is really disgusting how these animals are treated. I make every effort possible to eat organic, free range meat when I can afford it.

Let me add, that for every "Vegan Nazi", there are at least 100 wonderful vegans. They aren't all like the one girl I described above. I still have friends who are vegan, and supportive of my choice to being an omni again.

When I said it isn't possible to be a healthy vegan, it is possible, just not for me. Don't bash vegans just because they are vegans. Many of them are super people.

I really do suggest that everyone go to the PETA website and watch the "Meet Your Meat" video. It shows how cruel factory farming is. It will make you chose your meat wisely. Free range and organic is really a much kinder way to go.

My brother and sister-in-law are some "passive" vegans, and never ever try to push anything on anyone. They are almost like alot of LCers who will tell the waitress that they are diabetic to avoid the usual comments. She was raised on a factory-pork farm ,and I can see how she got her start into vegansim. Pig farms are really gross! My brother married her and became a vegan in consideration for her (what a guy!) , but began to feel the "call" after a while. Their issue is the cruelty-thing, because they are both really "feely" people, and wish the world were a more perfect place where nature was a little more fair to all the "consumable" organisms. They have 14 cats, all of whom are rescue pets because they can't say "no". They are good people, but a little lost. Nature has never been "fair" and never will be.