I think even back in July I was feeling sluggish. In fact, I think I've been feeling sluggish since I had my Thyroid removed, only I thought I was normal and just lazy by nature. But I have gotten worse. My cold intolerance, low body temperature, tiredness.... this just can't be right. Also, my face get very pink and flushed, and I read on one of your links that is also a sign.

I was thinking about all this tonight and wondering if I were having problems converting T4 -> T3 would TSH be higher? Is TSH triggered off of T4 or does T3 affect it also?

I don't think you're having issues converting, Nancy, both your FT4 and FT3 are at a similar point w/in the range. Typically if you're having that problem your FT4 will be high and your FT3 will be much lower, relatively speaking. I do think your numbers will be lower this time out though.

TSH responds primarily to T4 levels especially before we begin treatment. However meds that contain T3 (Cytomel, Thyrolar, Armour, Thyroid) tend to drive down TSH (and often FT4). In your case I believe your TSH is slightly high (2.0) because you'd feel better with a little more FT4 / FT3 in your body.

Have you had your ferritin checked? Often low iron can mimic hypoT symptoms, and being hypoT can also cause low iron.

I think I asked already, but what supplements are you taking? Are you taking Vit D, selenium, Vit E and magnesium? These are key thyroid supplements that we should all be taking. B12 is another good one - but most of us don't take anywhere near enough. I was told 3000mcgs a day, sublingual, by a biochemist to ensure 1% absorption.

OK, I think you edited a post to include your your supplement info - editing doesn't make a post show up as 'new' so I missed it until now.


I'd get my Ferritin checked; you might need some iron. Although the best way to get it is to eat more liver / red meat (liver extracts can help as well, I believe).

Add in the selenium (200mcgs for a few months since you've not been getting any for a while now, then 100mcgs thereafter), Vit D (be sure it's D3) 400 -800 IU, Magensium 600mgs (divided doses), Vit E 400-800 I.U. and B12, 1000-3000 mcgs.

I suspect that the selenium and Vit D will really help you feel better. You can't use thyroid hormones well w/o vit D and most of us LCers don't get enough - although you do live in CA so getting tested might be a good idea. Although you can supplement with 1000 IUs of Vit D3 safely.

Nat

I'll get my iron checked too. My multi has selenium (200mcg) and magnesium, but only 100mg. That seems like a very high dose of vit E you're recommending. Right now I'm getting 60 IU which is 200% of the RDA, I'm a little afraid of taking too high of a dose, especially since I should be getting a good bit in my diet.

I went to see a friend last night who recently had her thryoid removed and she's feeling pretty rotten too.

I think I could probably use a little more Vit D though, for sure.

Nancy, the RDA is a joke, in all honesty. 400 IU vit E is recommended by just about every health advisory board known to man - vit e is a very powerful fat soluble anti oxdiant. While the RDA is 30 IU, research studies show that optimal intakes associated with health benefits are in the range of 100-800 IU – an amount that is unrealistic to be obtained from foods.

There's more good, unbiassed info here: http://www.supplementwatch.com/supa...upplementId=105

Cheers,
Nat

Well, here's what I did today.

Printed out a lot of the alt.support.thyroid information and highlighted stuff I want my doctor to see. Went to the armour site and figured out what dosage of armour would probably be right for me. I think the 90mg ones should be a start.

I got the healthcheck blood test ordered, hopefully I can get that done this week. I need to study up on the blood test and see how to prepare for that.

Oh! Here's another thought. It is going to be 3 weeks before I can see my doctor. After I have my blood tests, before I see my doctor, I was thinking of adding another 1/2 of a levoxyl maybe every other day, just so I don't feel so crappy for so much longer.

Three weeks; what a bummer!

I would say "I wouldn't want to wait that long to feel better either", but heck, I've been waiting years. But yes, I would up my dose myself also.

I'm getting excited about the propect of potentially feeling much better. I think I've been Hypo since I had my thyroid nuked. The reason why is not long after that, I think I was in my early 30's, my Mom noticed swelling under my eyes. It's been there ever since. And I've constantly been fighting my weight and having a hellacious time losing. Not to mention the fact that I have fought this horrible lethargy for all this time.

I just wish some doctor had sat down with me and really gone over the symptoms and connected the dots. I might have gotten a lot done in those 17 years.... But I think before I was hypo, I didn't know what normal felt like. I had probably been hyper for quite awhile with my Grave's disease.

Maybe I can get some awareness into my doctor. No one should have to feel and live like this.

Of course, another part of me is afraid that feeling like this *IS* normal and I'm expecting too much.

ARGH!

Well, why would they think you wouldn't be hypo if you had it nuked?

Oh, no. They expected it and I've been on Levoxyl for 17 years. They look at the TSH and say I'm "normal". And I, stupid person, walked away thinking "I'm normal". I felt that it was *my* fault for being lazy and tired and gaining weight and not losing.

If they'd asked a few questions about my energy level or feeling cold etc, rather than just being satisfied with my TSH being within a certain range, they might have realized that I was undertreated.

Maybe it's a terminology thing but I don't, or wouldn't, call myself HypoT if my thryoid hormone were being properly dosed.

Perhaps I should say, "improperly medicated HypoT".

Jezum-Crowe!

What maroons!

Can you not find a different doctor, one that will listen, which I know most don't. It's like when tests came to being, doctors stopped listening to the their patients. Stopped using horse sense.

Hopefully that information will be helpful with your doctor, if not it's helped YOU

Be careful with switching from T4 to Armour, many of us react quite strongly to the T3 in it. It can be anywhere from 5 to 9 times more powerful than T4. 90mgs of Armour would have approximately 60mcgs of T4 and 13.5 mcgs of T3, which would equal anywhere from 67mcgs to 121 mcgs of T4. Your dose of 90mgs (1 1/2) grains of armour would then be equal to anywhere from 127 -181 mcgs of T4.

When switching to a natural desiccated thyroid hormone it's best to decrease the dose slightly and work your way back up, especially if you've been sans T3 for 17 years.

I would definitely hold off on increasing my dose untili you've had the tests done, Nancy - you want them as accurate as possible. Then you can play with it. A good rule of thumb is 25mcgs every 2 -4 weeks when you're not far off from where you should be - too much and you can end up hyper as it takes T4 a good 6 weeks to build up in your system.

Technically you are hypoT, it's the outcome of RAI or surgery to remove your thyroid.

Nat

So even in the lack of hypoT symptoms you still call yourself HypoT? Seems like there should be a different term depending on whether you're symptomless or not. Oh well!

Definitely I'll wait until after the test to playing with my Levoxyl.

Maybe I'll have my doctor write me a couple of presciptions of varying dosages. I wonder if he'll cooperate? It's not like thyroid is a recreational drug! You don't hear about kids having thryoid parties.

Nancy, it's my understanding you're either one of 3 states: euthyroid (healthy, normal thyroid function), hypothyroid or hyperthyroid. By nuking off your thyroid you become hypothyroid, because without the exogenous hormones in the meds you'd be hypothyroid.


Good luck - I'm a cynic when it comes to doctors and proper thyroid care, what can I say?

LOL! Well, he's a pretty nice guy and a new doctor to me. He was receptive to my low carb diet, said he had a lot of family members do really well on it. I think he'll be receptive to prescribing DT, especially when I box him into a corner and won't let him leave the room until he does.

I did read some of the stories of thyroid patients who have twiddled their dose and still haven't felt good. Dang... I really hope this fixes me.