Interesting! I don't know that much about PCOS. It is certainly something the endo and you need to explore.

Interesting. I'm not clear on this. Could you explain? I'm going through the thyroid tests right now so I'm curious.

Wanda

Wanda-

The Thryoid gland produces a hormone called T4, excess of which converts to another hormone called T3. T3 is responsible for cellular metabolism or how fast you burn what you eat. If you have a low thryoid-you have less of these hormones to help your metabolism run. When that is the case (even when you are on thyroid replacement) you don't burn what you eat. Most especially excess carbs. Because unburned carbs turn directly into fat, when you are not burning them the way you should (like when you have a slow metabolism) the carbs you eat turn into fat faster than a normal persons. Even my maintenance level carbs will never go above 40-50 g.

Hi Paleoanth:

Thanks for the explanation. Sure feels like what's happening to me, like all my food is turning to fat instead of being used for energy. I have to severely restrict calories to lose any weight, like under 1,000 calories. It's not a feasible way to lose weight.

I have abnormally high estrogen levels and high mercury levels, which I know affect thyroid. After having my mercury fillings removed, I gained weight really quickly (30 lbs in 4 months), I assume b/c of the increase in mercury load. I was able to lose 10 lbs, but now I've stalled for the last 5 months with no body composition changes. I'm just starting to see some results by having 2 low calorie days/week and cycling my calories and carbs for workouts the rest of the time. I can't really tolerate cardio, it really wears me down. I've had symptoms of hypo for years. I've struggled with weight mostly since I've been 20 (except for a time when I was sick), but was able to manage up until recently.

I got my results back and T3 and T4 seem lowish, but they're in the normal reference range. TSH was 2.08, Free T3 was 3.9 and Free T4 was 11. Everything seems borderline, even my morning temps (97.7).

One more question. I've read elsewhere that keeping carbs too low reduces thyroid so I'm a bit confused. Could you explain it for me?

Any advise appreciated.

P.S. Jaykay, I'm sorry, forgive me for hijacking your thread.

Thanks,
Wanda

I haven't read about keeping carbs too low affect the thyroid-so I cannot help you there. The only thing I have heard is that too much soy can affect it. I'm sorry.

Hi Wanda

Keeping carbs very low does negatively impact thyroid function in a number of ways. A lot of the body's work when you LC happens in the liver, this is also where T4 is converted to T3. When the liver is busy with ketones and glucose production (gluconeogenesis) the T4/T3 processes is compromised. Also, and this applies to any diet, not just LC, when you restrict calories too much your body slows metabolism my decreasing the amount of T3 it produces and by making Reverse T3 instead. RT3 is not active. Your body will also lower its production of TSH to slow metabolism (this seems to happen more with Low Carb for some reason). This last situation can make your life difficult especially if you're trying to initally convince your doctor that you have a problem.

With respect to your FT levels, you should be in the upper 3rd of the range if you do not have any cardiac issues; this is where women feel best. If your ranges are similar to the ones they used on me recently your FT4 is very low (9 - 23.2 and 10 - 20 [I had two sets of tests]) Your FT3 also looks low (range is typically 2.6-5.7). The good news is your FT3 might be low because your FT4 is low, which means you're probably doing an OK job converting T4 to T3 (80% of the T3 is produced by conversion from T4, the other 20% comes from the thyroid).

95% of the population has a TSH of 1, btw - the range used these days is antiquated and far too broad ranging. I know we're not in the old US of A but if you're looking for coroborating evidence to show your doctor check out the AACE website for their January 2004 and 2003 press releases which suggest that the range for TSH be .2-2.5 and anyone with a TSH over 2 with symptoms merits a trial of replacement therapy.

Thyroid-Info has a listing of Internation Top Docs and there are a few in Toronto (you're from TO, right?) that might be able to help you if you cannot get your doctor to listen. Finding someone to aggresively and correctly treat hypothyroidism can be more stressful than the disease sometimes, but do not give up - the consequences of not being treated or of being undertreated are pretty serious (cardiac irregularities, osteoporosis).

Best of luck,
Nat

OMG Nat, I can't tell you how happy I am to hear from you! I saw on your website a couple of weeks ago that you've been in thyroid hell lately. I hope you're doing better. You've had quite the time.

Thanks so much for all this info. My reference range for me is FT4 (9-23) and FT3 (3.5-5.5). I've been cycling my carbs and calories (high-100g, medium -80g, low-20g) so hopefully this is helping me. I do notice that when I do induction level carbs, that I get a lot of tingling in my fingers like low blood sugars (or elevated cortisol) or something.

Yes, I'm in Newmarket, but I'm lucky to have a holistic doc in Markham who believes that my thyroid should be around 1 so I don't think I'll have to doctor shop. I haven't had my follow up appointment yet, as the results only came in yesterday so I'd like to be knowledgeable before my appointment. I'll let ya'll know what happens.

I'm feeling positive about maybe finding a solution to this, it's been so frustrating.

Wanda

This explains why you feel the way you do - regardless of your TSH you are hypothyroid. TSH is just a screening tool and yet most doctors treat it as if it were the holy grail of thyroid tests (it's not even a thyroid test). If you are having troubles sleeping, if you sleep too much and if you have your blood drawn at the wrong time it can vary by as much as 3 points in a normal (non thyroid sick) person.

Have you had antibody tests? The most common type of hypoT is autoimmune (hashimoto's disease) and the antibodies will show up long before anything else.

In the meantime if you want to help yourself feel better there are a few things you can do.

• stop eating soy
• stop eating flaxseeds and/or foods made with flax
• stop drinking tea
• stop using millett if you do

Avoid eating any goitrogenic foods unless they are cooked:

African cassava, Asparagus, babassu, Broccoli, brussels sprouts, Cabbage, cauliflower, horseradish, kale, kohlrabi, leafy green vegetables (turnip greens, mustard greens, collard greens), Legumes (beans and peas), peanuts, pine nuts, Processed meats, radishes, rutabaga, Spinach, turnips, Watercress

Start supplementing with selenium if you are not already; selenium is vital for the conversion of T4 to T3, it can also lessen symptoms associated with autoimmune thyroid disease by neutralizing anitbodies. 200mcg is the most you can supplement with, but this includes all forms of selenium (food sources and multi-vitamin). I use a 200mcg pill split in two because my multi has 30mcg in it - toxicity with selenium at levels greater than 200mcg is possible.

Be sure you're getting zinc (10mg day), Vitamin D (400-800IU) and E (800 IU).

If I recal correctly you also have an adrenal issue - this should be addressed before any thyroid treatement commences, or you could end up feeling worse.

You're lucky to have a found a good doctor; naturopaths and holistic docs do so much better with thyroid, they treat the patient and symptoms instead of bowing to the all mighty lab report - they are also more likely to prescribe natural meds, which tend to work best (and would be beneficial in your case with a FT3 that low). I am frankly amazed that you can even function with results that low, my FT3 was 4.7 (2.6-5.7) and my FT4 was 12 (same range as yours) and I was a slug.

Hi Nat:

Wow! I can't tell you how much I appreciate this information.

I haven't had the antibody test done but I'll ask about it.
I don't eat any of the above except that I have 1/2 cup of soy milk in my PWO shake. I'll eliminate that immediately.

I'm sure my doc will probably put me on the selenium as he already has me on a vitamin regime. I'm taking zinc and E, and I'll also ask about the D, although I think it's in my fish oil, but probably not enough.

We checked my saliva cortisol levels last year (when my mercury levels came back high) and cortisol came back normal.
Nat, I have a tendency to be really hard on myself so when I lack energy, I put it down to being "lazy". I know. I've been getting frustrated b/c I can't tolerate HIIT cardio at all. I used to manage 3 times/week for a 12 week period, but now I aim for 2 times/week, but find myself having to take rest periods. I often start my workouts feeling really weak-kneed. I seem ok with heavy weight/low reps, but anything with higher reps wipes me out. This all makes sense now. I thought I was a wimp.

I've also had such severe constipation that NOTHING will fix. In fact, I might find something to help, but then my body just builds up a tolerance to it. Blah, blah, blah, you already know the story, I won't bore everyone with the symptoms. But, I'd really love to resolve the memory problems. It's difficult at times when you know you're intelligent, but feel like a moron.

Nat, I'd kiss you if I could.

Wanda

Around my home we refer to it as being one of the "slug people" - where it takes too much energy to even speak and grunting becomes your primary means of communicating. Until family members helped me put all the symptoms together we thought I had the flu about 4 times in the past 10 months, west nile at one point, that I was going through menopause at 36 followed by I was pregnant. It took handfuls of hair accumulating on the bathroom floor for us to put 1 and 1 together and not come up with "crazy / lazy".

Do you also have high cholesterol levels? Mine were always on the high side and nothing I could do would budge them (I tried for 15 years). I cut out the bad foods (I was nearly living on about four of them), stopped with the soy, flax and Green tea and added the selenium - my HDL went up 33% and my LDL came down. All that without even getting my hands on any meds.

Push for the natural desiccated thyroid med, Wanda, it contains the T3 which helps most with brain fog, depression, bloat and weight gain, although I suspect that, like me, you'll notice an improvement with just the T4 since your levels are so damned low.

Hey Nat!

Just wanted to say howdy and thanks for picking up the thread! Good information.

Ya know, in the last 5 years, I just thought I was mellowing out and getting more introverted. I mean, it's really noticeable how I don't socialize as much as I used to. DH calls me a "shut-in". Of course, he's a social butterfly.

Yes, my cholesterol IS high. It scared me at first, but after researching last year, realized that hormone imbalance could cause high cholesterol (I had high estrogen at the time). Now this. I pretty much just look at the triglyceride number for my heart disease risk, which is perfectly fine.

So what do you take for the T4, natural dessicated thyroid as well?

Oh, another question. What did you do re: workouts in the interim? Did you stop? Are you able to workout now?

Thanks Nat.

Wanda

I'm on synthetic - 025mcg of T4 (T4 alone only comes as synthetic) and I am on 1 grain of natural (our Canadian version of Armour); my T4 was quite low compared with my T3. I started the synthroid (T4) first and I felt better w/in 24 hours. It was the first day in months I didn't have a headache. Over the course of the week the exhaustion dissipated and the diziness and nausea abated.

I managed to catch a nasty summer/fall cold 10 days into treatment, but I felt better than I had all summer. My temp came back up to 'normal' and I was able to make it through the day w/o a nap. When I started on the natural meds I did so slowly, 1/4 grain AM, 1/4 PM for a week, then 1/2 grain AM, 1/4 PM, now I'm at 1/2 AM/PM. I started working out last week, I probably could have done it the week before but the cold really knocked me on my butt. I'm taking it slow, just cardio right now 3x a week and hikes on the weekend. I tried the weights about a week ago and I could barely move for 3 days later. I'm better but I'm not healed yet. The last time I'd run was early August, and it was more of a really fast walk. I hadn't lifted since the end of July - the cardio just wiped me out and the lifting hurt too much for far too long afterward. I figured I'd give my body a break and I reigned in the calories to make up for being a slug.

I'm keeping a close eye on body temp, heart rate and symptoms - it's getting a lot colder now and seasonal changes often necessitate dose changes - any stessor does, and that includes exercise. It makes sense if you think about it; thyroid hormones (T3) drive metabolism, increased metabolism demands more thyroid hormone, so if your body can't produce/convert T3 you're screwed and all attempts at increasing metabolism leave you feeling just awful. Colder weather necessitates an increase in thyroid hormones as metabolism increases to keep you warm. If you're hypo, this time of the year can bring back symptoms. There's even a theory out there that the depression, moodiness, lethargy and fatigue that plague people during the winter months is actually low thyroid function and not SAD, as is often believed.

Hi Paleoanth

Hi Nat:

Wow, I just finished reading your "Thyroid Information" link, trying to absorb everything on your website about thyroid. You should place your info in a sticky for the Thyroid Forum. It's VERY informative.

How terribly frustrating that must have been for you, giving up your training. But you're so dedicated and determined, you'll be back to it in no time.

LOL, maybe that should be another thyroid symptom. Intense hatred of the winter. I'm already starting to freeze, going to bed with my socks on. My AM temps definately drop in the winter.

Wanda

Hey, go away for a few days and there's all this activity on the forum!
This is so interesting. For a start, isn't it nice to know you're not alone. Nat, your levels are virtually the same as mine were and like you, I felt like a total slug. Glad you're on the mend. I am too, on 1.5 grains of Armour, which I split, 1 grain in the morning, 0.5 grain in the afternoon. I haven't had any bloods done since I put myself on this, but I feel a lot better. Not completely sorted out yet, but certainly heading in the right direction.
The thyroxine (T4) helped but I'd say the Armour was better.
My GP (family doc) is totally phased by all this and doesnt' think she should be treating me, neither do any of the other partners.
I'm going to see a private specialist in Nov. I'm hoping he'll endorse what I'm doing and then the GP will be alright with it. If they're not, I'll just keep self-medicating and check in with the specialist periodically. I'm not prepared to stay ill, when its comparatively easy to sort out.

Hopefully I'll be able to start exercising properly again soon. I'm also working on staying healthy this winter and on beating SAD which could be linked anyway. A real bonus would be to lose weight too, but the things above are more important at the moment.

Let's keep in touch about how we're doing - it seems to me hypothyroid is something you have to take an active role in yourself, rather than just waiting for the docs to suddenly become enlightened. Mind you (she says cynically) if you have reactive hypoglycaemia and/or insulin resistance which you're solved using a low-carb diet, you're used to sorting it out yourself despite, rather than together with, your doc!