HOGWASH has to be THE best word in the dictionary!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you made my day, thanks!

Good morning everyone: To answer some of the questions: "I can't even lose a pound" I've never had a patient who did not lose weight. Some did not lose as much as they would have liked, but they did lose weight. to Dina: actually the Stillman diet is the basis of the Atkins theory. Atkin's modified it over the years but the base is pretty much the same. The Stillman has been used by several other names over the years, such as "Drinking Man's Diet" in the 60's. As to my user name, it very much has to do with my weight loss. I'm not going to say losing the weight was easy, but I will say that I made it easier by using suppliments and modifing psych behavior. That was four years ago.. now I'm semi-retired and pretty much loving life. My goal is to help others who are going through the same things I did. In the meantime, I also learn.
I just found this forum the other day when looking for some other information. Wish I had it years ago. It probably is and can be a great place for moral support and the information required to achieve the goals each person sets for his/herself.
While I did not mean to knock down the person who was objecting to the Atkins way of life, I felt I had to speak up for what I know to be the truth.
I don't believe there is a "one size fits all" for dieting. What I do know is that only 1.5 person(s) in 200 acheives dieting goals. There has to be something wrong with that picture! And what I believe is wrong is the lack of concrete, totally reliable information... and the constant bombardment of the media selling "quick-fixes". Most of the baratric community is in it for the money, the insurance companies turn their backs, and medical schools don't focus on this enormous problem... only on its results. The CDC states that in 2005 obesity will be the number one killer is the USA. Enough said..
It is my desire to be part of the solution...
Warm regards, Tootie

Thank you, bear... excellent article... Tootie

My main thought when people start suggesting vegan approaches and such is this.

If all our modern convienances and pharmacuticals are taken away, and I, eating LC and a vegan/vegitarian are left in the natural world. I have no doubt I can eat a healthy LC lifestyle and thrive. I have a strong doubt that someone trying to eat strictly vegan/vegitarian would survive, or if they do, I would guess they wouldn't be very healthy without access to man made suppliments and food.
I'll stick to this way of eating because of that, it seems much more natural.

Hi Tootie:
Stillman diet is 100% lean protein diet, very low fat and almost no carbs. Looks like a recipe for disaster to me. Here is what V.Stefannson says about lean protein diet. He spent some time living among Eskimos and knew a thing or two about low carb diets. He also knew that lean protein diet without fat will ...kill you in a long therm. Protein is not a source of energy for human body, fat and carbs are. we can survive on either of them as long as we supply adequate amount of protein depending on gender, life style, health, ect. Here is the excerpt from Stefannson book My Life with the Eskimo, quote
Rabbits are important in some areas at certain times. You can’t live on only the lean meat of the rabbit, after awhile you lose strength and get sick. Fat from other sources has to be consumed when restricted to rabbit as the main course. Eating even large quantities of rabbit without oil doesn’t satisfy hunger and appetites become voracious, resulting in a gorged, bloated feeling of unsatisfaction The eskimos collect seal oil in the summer, store it in bags made of seal skin. They drink this oil with their lean rabbit meat and are satisfied (hungerwise) and able to survive through a winter on the diet supplemented with the fat of the seal oil. The indians inland don’t have the seal and depend upon moose or caribou fat stored from the previous (autumn) hunting season. If this isn’t available they get bacon from the traders to supply the fat. This shows the importance of high fat in the diet which, throughout the history of medicine has been stupidly recommended against by medically oriented nutritional experts
Here is another quote from his article Adventures in Diet, quote:
For I had published in 1913, on pages 140-142 of My Life with the Eskimo, an account of how some natives and I became ill when we had to go two or three weeks on lean meat, caribou so skinny that there was no appreciable fat behind the eyes or in the marrow. So when Dr. DuBois suggest that I start the meat period by eating as large quantities as I possibly could of chopped fatless muscle, I predicted trouble. But he countered by citing my own experience where illness had not come until after two or three weeks, and he now proposed lean for only two or three days. So I gave in.At Bellevue the meat, carefully scrutinized, had been as lean as such muscle tissue can be. Then, in the Arctic we had eaten tendons and other indigestible matter, we had chewed the soft ends of bones, getting a deal of bulk that way when we were trying to secure fat. What we ate at Bellevue contained no bulk material, so that my stomach could be compelled to hold a much larger amount of lean.The symptoms brought on at Bellevue by an incomplete meat diet (lean without fat) were exactly the same as in the Arctic, except that they came on faster - diarrhea and a feeling of general baffling discomfort.Up north the Eskimos and I had been cured immediately when we got some fat. Dr. DuBois now cured me the same way, by giving me fat sirloin steaks, brains fried in bacon fat, and things of that sort. In two or three days I was all right, but I had lost considerable weight.
http://www.biblelife.org/stefansson2.htm
As you can see, Stillman diet is mostly lean protein and is hardly suitable for a long therm, and even dangerous. Fat should be consumed in a much higher proportion, probably 75-80% of total number of calories on a ketogenic diet, and Dr.Atkins strongly advised on not doing low fat version of his diet.
I have to appologize, I didn't mean to pray into your personal life, but YOU DID LOSE WEIGHT BECAUSE OF THE SURGERY, not by the diet, nothing wrong with it, but the Stillman diet was the only diet suitable after this kind od surgery. My neighbor (a women in her late 50s) who failed all diets and ended up at 350 pounds, lost 150 pounds in one year after this surgery and she was able only eat 1-2 ounces of lean protein at a time in order to keep her food down. She untimately lost all 200 pounds and now can eat a variety of food (bread including) but still in a very small quantities, otherwise, she's in troubles. In this case this diet is the only way to go, but for a normal active person high lean protein diet is not a way to lose weight . So, when you are comparing Atkins diet and the Stillman diet, IMHO, it's not the same and it's dangerous.
I suspect that many ppl are aware that bariatric surgery works for sure, I thought this forum is to discuss A NON-SURGICAL WAY OF WEIGHT LOSS. Have you tried any diet before the surgery to lose weight?

Soooo, diets don't work, right? None of them? Or those who lost weight couldn't keep it off, where are these stats coming from, could you please, provide references.
So what is the solution? If diets don't work (see above), then the solution is what...BARIATRIC SURGERY? Nothing is forever, and even after this surgery the weight can be regained if one is not very careful with his diet. I'm glad it works for you, just be more specific in your posts, otherwise, it's a bit misleading.
Best Regards,
Dina

I know someone who had that surgery...never tried dieting (although she would claim she did...she never stuck to one for more than a week)...and has since regained about 30 of the 70 pounds she initially lost. After surgery...she could only eat small bites of food...but it was still junk that she ate.

I'm not commenting on you at all BariatricP...not in any way...really....my point is that NOTHING will work unless you can commit to it for life.

That's the bottom line. I firmly believe that's why long term success is so rare. People want to lose weight and then get back to their old "normal" way of eating. It just wont work like that. Not with any diet or surgery.

It's also why I like Atkins. I dont feel deprived and can have most of the foods I love. When I was on low-fat, low-cal...most of what I ate was OK...but not great...except fruit and bagels. Most meals were boring. For me...what I like about this WOE is that it's something that I believe can be part of my life...for life. Since that type of commitment is what is required to maintain weight after goal...this plan seems to be the best for me. Others may prefer other options...but whatever one chooses...it must be a lifetime commitment.

Those that find a diet that "works" for them long term are the only ones who will acheive success long term.

So...I dont think that diets fail...people fail.

Wonder where the original poster went?

Out to pick vegetables (or neuter a cat)...

PETA Freaks! ugghh! i hate em'.

i live in texas - we are big MEAT EATERS here! in fact if we dont have to eat veggies we are happier.

there was a road sign last week in our gulf coast town paid for by PETA it showed a dog with a fishing hook in his mouth and it said "you wouldnt do this to a dog, why do it to a fish"

well there were so many complaints from us MEAT EATING Texans that the sign was taken down. PETA can kiss my ---! i will gladly discuss anything they want over a steak and fried chicken dinner (low carb of course).

You couldn't be more completely wrong. I have lost 120 lbs on Atkins and have kept it off for 2 year. Your also wrong about the breast cancer, the newest studies from last week show that it reduced your changes. I lost 80 lbs on ww and gained it all back and some in one year, your mother-in-law lost control just like I did when i stopeed ww that was my fault and you should not be blame Atkins for your moth-in-laws weight gain.

GCS

I have always wondered where drive-by trolls go after their short lifespan on a message board has ended. Do they go to the same place as those single socks that make their inexplicable and unseen escapes from clothes dryers around the world? Do they end up out on some lonely stretch of highway somewhere? The way some estranged, battered looking, single shoes do?

Perhaps they all end up in the same place together. Drive-by trolls meeting other drive-by trolls, all sporting mismatched socks and shoes. What a happy thought!

"Save a cornfield - grill a troll..."

Oh, did I type that out loud?

Once again the high carb troll has been slain by the low carb sword of truth. Keep it up, guys! I'm off to eat six eggs in coconut oil (horrors!)...

In all fairness, cherryrock is entitled to her opinion.
However, when someone begins to present opinion as fact in an effort to change someone's mind about what they are doing, they should be prepared to back up those opinions with more than just other people's opinions and studies that don't support what they are asserting to be fact.
I have a feeling that cherryrock wasn't fully prepared to have her opinion challenged as vigorously as it has been.