Yes, I've tried the dogwiches. Which she liked okay, but we finally narrowed it down to pupperoni. They are only given time to time but they are by far her favorites, so I just stick with them (and baby carrots, which she loves too!) .

I used to have a German Shepherd years ago and she was a wonderful dog. They are really beautiful and so smart. Give your 2 a pupperoni for me!

I also have Jack Russell Terriers and they are fed raw. My older dog was switched to raw when it became apparent he has severe grain allergies and my younger dog has been on raw since her mama started weaning her. They are amazingly healthy, have wonderful coats and their weight stays right where it should be. I find feeding raw completely natural and easy to do, but then I have access to high quality pre-mixed raw foods. Lots of veggies, fruits and ground meats/bone along with kelp. I do supplement with brewer's yeast/garlic tabs during flea season and we never have a flea problem.

A lot of vets are still trying to push the brand they have sitting in their offices. Not only do they make money from selling the food, they make money for renting out space to the dog food companies.

I have an holistic vet now who actually suggested a raw diet the first time I took Gracie to her - told her she was too late, Gracie had NEVER had anything with grains in it.

For those who are interested Google or Dogpile BARF diets and you can get some wonderful information. Also you can read Ian Billinghurst or Kymythy Smythe and get some great information and Kymythy has an entire list of other references in the back of her book.

shortstuff

We have a 5 1/2 year old Bouvier des Flandres, and while I was seriously considering feeding a BARF diet early on, we decided to stay with commercial food for reasons of expediency. We just recently switched him over to the Nutro Chicken/Rice/Oatmeal dry kibble, since it is supposed to be easier on the stomach and he seems to have a well-developed "gag reflex" (not a pretty sight with a big dog ) Seems to be working so far.

I have noticed that he hangs around the garbage pail MUCH more now that there are more bones and so on in it, and less pasta, potato, and other "carby" leavings! He never used to cruise the tabletops or counters, either -- but now there are often wet beard marks on those surfaces, just in case there might be some of that good, meaty stuff hanging about.

I occasionally have a puppy person who doesn't want to go BARF and I figure if they MUST feed commercial food, then I recommend Nutro ... because unless they have changed their formulation, Nutro's All Natural avoids the things that commonly cause problems in dogs ... corn, wheat, beet root ... and they don't preserve with ethoxyquin or BHA or BHT.

I disagree that feeding a BARF diet takes a lot of time. It doesn't take any longer than dumping dry dog food into a dish. I have 6 - 8 of the dogs in the house at any one time ... and the rest are in the kennels. It takes me about 20 minutes, from start to finish to feed my group ... and this includes playing ball with 5 or 6 of the kennel dogs!

Every evening, after feeding the dogs, I take out the next day's portions of frozen meat ... and put it in the lidded tub to slowly thaw under the sink. By feeding time the next day everything is just about thawed ... I stir it up ... add whatever veggies if I'm adding them that day [ground up in the food processor ... about 30 seconds of labour there] ... and dole it out. Easy.

I also add Source Plus for Dogs ... which is a seaweed based micro-nutrient supplement with brewer's yeast and garlic ... and we don't have a flea problem either. Why? Because the dogs' immune systems are so high that it's an "unfriendly" environment for parasites. My pups generally don't have worms either ... because the mothers don't have worms.

BARF isn't for everyone ... but don't think that BARF takes longer ... because it doesn't. And let's face it ... commercial dog foods [generally made by subsidiaries of people food companies to use up stale or rancid ingredients they can no longer use in people food] haven't been around all that long ... just since the 1950's.

I've done a lot of research ... as have most BARF proponents ... and we don't choose this method because we have lots of time to "prepare" food for our dogs. Most of us are just as busy as those who feed commercial kibble. We choose this method because we needed real solutions and wanted real results. It works for us ... and since about 85% of my puppy people are still feeding this way, it can't be all that difficult.

Everyone must feed his/her pets what they feel is the "best" diet for them ... but I caution everyone to do a bit of research into the foods you're feeding. The most expensive isn't necessarily the best.

I couldn't agree more! Whatever is best for your dog and your situation is best. I only feed my dog the very best all-natural human grade prepared food, Nutro All-Natural, prior to that, Innova. I know the stuff from the vets offices often contain by products. But I also know some folks rely on their vets for special food because their pets may suffer from certain conditions.

I also know that folks who do BARF generally do alot of research, but just like those who feed prepared food, should be careful not to feed their dogs just any raw food, because some foods are bad for dogs in general, as I'm sure you know.

The important thing is to care enough about your pet to do the research and to take the very best care of them you can. It's important not to get so immersed in "dogma" (pardon the pun), that one isn't open to other points of view.

hpjrt..you've definitely nailed it. Just one WOE isn't the only right WOE, for dogs, or for humans! After all, I know LC doesn't work for everyone but it's right for me and my situation. Isn't that why we're all here!

hpjrt i totally agree with you, but of course, i have also researched this subject to death.

i started bogart on a high quality dog food and he never really had solid stools and he would go so so much, as in: great dane=huge piles. he was allergic to about 35 different things, from pork to grass to cotton, so we put him on the special fish and potato kibble from the vet. still just as bad PLUS he hated it.
well since i started raw i have found that his stools are little teeny tiny pieces, i dont even clean the yard they dissolve in a few days. i have also found that he can eat just as much pork and rabbit as he likes (supposed allergies) and no problems.

as for rain:
"It's important not to get so immersed in "dogma" (pardon the pun), that one isn't open to other points of view."

no matter what you or anyone else tells me, i'll never be open to the "point of view" that dogs need corn or rice or wheat. now if i were to get another dog, a smaller dog with an average lifespan, i just might consider a high quality kibble instead. but there is no way in hell that i will claim that that is best. its not natural for them. but for a great dane that typically has a shorter lifespan than most, and when 25% of them die of bloat, i will feed him the absolute best, safest diet i can find.

could he LIVE on kibble?? sure. but i was LIVING on pizza and burgers before too.

eve25 - my dogs are small dogs with average life spans, but even their life spans can be greatly extended and enhanced with the raw diet. My male is a very tall Parsons Russell - 18 " at the whithers and 22 pounds of solid muscle and my female is only 4 months old and will probably end up around 14 inches (Parsons again). The oldest Jack I've heard of and seen pictures of is a Jack in South Africa at age 21 (owned by friends) and still going strong. The next oldest was an 18 year old male (owned by more friends) in Australia who recently passed from an aortic aneurysm.

These are both way beyond the 14-15 year span predicted for my small dogs and both were fed exclusively on raw diets. I only hope mine can enjoy a quality life that long.

I advocate raw but everyone has to make up their own minds.

Other things I've noticed feeding raw: no tartar build up on teeth, no doggy breath, no doggie body odor, wonderful stamina, excellent coat and skin.

But again, everyone has to choose for themselves and do their own research.

I guess where I'm going, I think you did absolutely the right thing for Bogart (love that name!) and hope it increases and enhances his life span.

shortstuff

I have cats and was experiencing problems with dry food. They would get bowel blockages, plus they were lethargic and overweight. Once I started low-carbing it dawned on me that cats are carnivores (duh!) and what I was feeding them was poison. Luckily there is a raw pet food manufacturer in town. Viola put them on raw food that I get from a holistic veterinarian and it takes no more time that opening a can of cat food. Now I've got slimmer, happier, energetic, affectionate cats who race around the house as if they were kittens. Don't fool yourself into thinking that dry food works for cats (I'm not familiar with dogs). Cats do not drink enough water. The dry food moves very slowly through their intestinal tract and while doing so expands and dehydrates them. Definitely not good for them.

[QUOTE=eve25]hpjrt i totally agree with you, but of course, i have also researched this subject to death.

as for rain:
"It's important not to get so immersed in "dogma" (pardon the pun), that one isn't open to other points of view."

no matter what you or anyone else tells me, i'll never be open to the "point of view" that dogs need corn or rice or wheat.

EVE,

I never said anything about dogs needing corn, rice or wheat. I am not advocating any such thing and I'm not sure why you think I am.

I know bloat is a major problem for Great Danes, and in fact, a close friend just went through a horrendous episode with her Newfoundland, who fortunately survived emergency surgery and is now recovering. I do know how important diet can be in preventing it, especially for deep-chested dogs. (My friend's newfie unfortunately "found" something outside, they live in the woods, that caused the problem).

I only advocate healthy, happy, pets who live long, joyful lives. I'm glad you found what works for you and your dog, and I am sure you care for him deeply. My only point is that raw is great, and I will say yet again that I have friends who swear by it, but it is not the only best way for all dogs, and it is wrong to assume that if you're not feeding raw, you must be doing something wrong.

And that, I hope will be the end of this debate, because I'm not sure why it is a debate, since I never really disagreed with your choice in the first place.

Peace.

Rain, we're just confused because you DO feed your dog wheat and rice.

And because you're under the assumption that what dogs are supposed to eat is somehow negotiable. Like:



Care to explain why you think all dogs' natural diet isn't the best for all dogs?

No, actually, I don't care to explain it (BARF diet vs human grade prepared) any further, nor do I feel it's necessary. I have had a dog that lived a to a happy, health 17 years and may have lived longer had she not suffered smoke inhalation in a house fire. I had two cats that lived to be 19 and 22 years old. The one who lived to be 19 was a cat I found dehydrated and malnourished under my car in a hot parking lot in New Mexico when he was no more than 8 weeks old. I feed my animals the very best food I can, and they have the healthy lives to prove I must be doing something right. The food I feed my dog, has chicken, turkey, carrots, and some cooked potato in it. It has 1% carbs, actually. I don't feed her dry food and make sure she gets big bones to chew on. I never said I fed her kibble, that was another wrong assumption made by some on this forum.

If you're doing something right too, good for you. I NEVER, if I may say for the umpteenth time, said what you are doing is bad for your dogs. But what I am doing for my dog is NOT bad for her either. And to pardon a line, nothing you or anyone else can say will ever convince me otherwise, because my experience and my research has taught me well.

Contrary to what you may believe, the BARF diet is not without it's detractors. However, I am not one of them. I think it's valid diet, among others. Not ALL, but others. I choose an alternative method. I am not misguided, nor am I uninformed.

On this subject I am done. However, you are free to argue with me on some other subject about which I don't disagree with you in the future. Sheesh!

I can't advocate the BARF diet due to the acronym.

How could you possibly make your pet eat BARF ?

I mean, my cat BARFs enough for all of us, I would think.

H

maybe it was me that made that "asssumption," i dont know. i just thought it was you who said,


dont know what you are using exactly but Nutro Natural Choice has rice or sometimes wheat is always the #1 or #2 ingredient (i used to feed it). unless there is something new out there, in which case, please share.

Wow...gettin' a little hot in here....

My personal opinion is that dogs and cats are carnivores by nature yes, but they are also very unique in what they can tolerate. Some critters, like some people, do better lower carb and others can tolerate higher levels. Personally, I feed mine a diet of mostly meat (commercial Lean Cuts) with a few veggies and any meat left-overs in the evening and a lc kibble in the morn. One of my Labs, Chevy, has a completely different metabolism and body type than the other, Kenya, and can tolerate more calories and carbs so her kibble portion is larger. They get lots of love and attention and are beautiful creatures that enhance our time here on this Earth and are lucky to have us to take care of them. It breaks my heart to think of the millions of innocent creatures that don't have it so good.
I have a 16 yr old cat that had probs with crystals in her urine(she was so miserable she would get up on the stove and urinate to try to get my attention!!! Poor thing...(and a burner that is turned on after it has been covered in cat urine...GAAAAKKKKK!!!!!!!) so she gets a PH balanced formula, both soft and kibble, from the vets. All my critters are healthy and happy.

Who knows, if I was feeding the ultimate diet, raw in my opinion, they might be even healthier in the long run. We did domesticate them from the wild, so in exchange for sleeping on my couches/bed they have to crunch some kibble chunks in the morn if they want to eat!

The thing is, I just want everyone to be equally taken care of. I can't afford to obsess over any one of the souls I love more than the other. Me, DH, kids, critters, family, friends, I mean I am only one person and I have to concentrate on keeping a balence of my energys, time, financial resources, etc... Sure, idealy, in a perfect world, we would all eat the most natural, clean foods but in reality we all make a few lesser than ideal choices to keep the road we travel as smooth as possible. Nobody's perfect and no one way is the right way for everybody. We can only do our best with what we have and what our priorities dictate we must do.

i agree with everyhting you said delta. i like that you concede that raw is probably the best but its just not practical for everyone. i totally agree on that and that was my whole point many posts ago.